Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

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Mar 4, 2020
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Also, Paul said the branch "COULD" be broken off, he didn't say it "WILL" be broken off. Basically, don't be arrogant or boastful about your situation of being Saved by Faith alone... I mean, why would he ditch the Jews who were a works based salvation group and illuminate the gentiles with the real truth, and make that truth one of works again? it makes no sense.

Believers don't have to talk about Good Works, they are a natural occurrence after being Saved. Really, what is a good work? Giving a cold guy your coat? Giving a hungry guy food? in this modern world it could be a number of things. The problem is with work based Salvation guys like you, you want to tally up your good works or remember them or boast about them... just react as things are presented to you in everyday life... God will give you opportunities to do good works.

There is no measuring stick, there is no formula for how many you have to do. Look at the old granny who dropped one pebble in the collection plate.. Jesus said she gave more of herself than anyone else.

Stop overthinking it and just Get Saved!
Check Romans 11:11-24 and see if what you said still applies.
 

Esteban99

New member
Feb 3, 2023
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Check Romans 11:11-24 and see if what you said still applies.
It applies.. back up to the start of the Chapter 11....

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

It's either Grace or Works... Pick One! I'd rather to be part of the remnant according to the election of grace.

Again, get the full revelation of truth.. it's either Grace or it's Works.

There are 613 commands in the Law. If you broke one, you broke them all. If you keep them all, you are an awesome dude. You are like Jesus.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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It applies.. back up to the start of the Chapter 11....

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

It's either Grace or Works... Pick One! I'd rather to be part of the remnant according to the election of grace.

Again, get the full revelation of truth.. it's either Grace or it's Works.

There are 613 commands in the Law. If you broke one, you broke them all. If you keep them all, you are an awesome dude. You are like Jesus.
It’s not either grace or works.

Works doesn’t refer to law keeping in the context.

The Bible is clear you aren’t saved by law keeping.

What you should be doing is continuing in faith, like Romans 11 says, or risk being broke off, whether you are a Jew or a Gentile.

You show your faith by your works likes James said because faith without works is dead.

The works you need to do are called good works. Good works are walking in the Spirit like Galatians 5 says. Jesus explained that it’s our duty to do good using parables.
 

Esteban99

New member
Feb 3, 2023
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It’s not either grace or works.

Works doesn’t refer to law keeping in the context.

The Bible is clear you aren’t saved by law keeping.

What you should be doing is continuing in faith, like Romans 11 says, or risk being broke off, whether you are a Jew or a Gentile.

You show your faith by your works likes James said because faith without works is dead.

The works you need to do are called good works. Good works are walking in the Spirit like Galatians 5 says. Jesus explained that it’s our duty to do good using parables.
What is a Good Work? Give me an example of a Good Work.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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What is a Good Work? Give me an example of a Good Work.
There are many, but just stick with the Biblical examples. Feeding someone in need is one of the big ones. Jesus said doing good to others is like doing good to him. If you don’t do good to others it’s, in effect, not doing good to him. He talked about it.
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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I feel like I am beating a dead horse

your wrong. I can have a belief is something yet not trust that something. there are many examples. far to many to show.

The fact is, if I just believe, yet do not have faith. I am not saved.

example of this is I believe in jesus and the cross. But I do not trust the gospel so I add works.. The Jews who were trying to add the law to grace believed in Jesus.l but they did not trust him. there faith is in themselves.

another example of this is one who believes in jesus. but do not trust him, they do not believe they are sinners. they do not believe God will condemn them, and they think if they just say a prayer. they are saved and can liver however they want because they believe. These are the people James were confronting in james 2.
How can you believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, given that most don't. Then say that you don't trust Him?

If you believe Jesus rose from the dead, then that is a huge step of faith.

Only a Christian believes that Jesus rose from the dead.

You keep drawing a distinction between faith and belief, faith and trust?

They are the same Greek word.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Every translation has 'believe' in Romans 10:9

It is that simple. Stop massaging the text.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Just a thought that came to mind some when works is mentioned are so accustomed to others preaching on works that they instantly get a red flag I know I used to even if the word works was in any post my red flag goes up and my focus is on the word works not the entire post and I will be the first to admit I have completely misunderstood where others are coming from because of this.

This got me to wonder what other trigger words would make me do the same thing then it got me thinking about how many of us have done this exact thing and didn't realize it?

Personally I like working especially physical labor so and I have respect for good work ethics so it only makes sense to me that faith saves us but then it's time to get to work
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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How can you believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, given that most don't. Then say that you don't trust Him?

If you believe Jesus rose from the dead, then that is a huge step of faith.

Only a Christian believes that Jesus rose from the dead.

You keep drawing a distinction between faith and belief, faith and trust?

They are the same Greek word.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Every translation has 'believe' in Romans 10:9

It is that simple. Stop massaging the text.
How?

1. Because you do not believe the death and resurrection is the complete payment for your sin, You believe you in the end have to work, or you will not be saved

2. You believe in the death and resurrection. But you do not believe it was for you. It was for people like Hitler. and all those evil people. I am a good person. and I can say a sinners prayer, and I am saved,, and I can continue to live as I want to, because asgain, I am not a bad person.

3. You believe in the death and resurrection. But your faith is in the church,. and all of their traditions, sacraments, and following them is your way to heaven, Fail to do that you will fall away and salvation will be lost.

The jews paul spoke to believed in the death and resurrection. their faith was in the law though, so in the end, they trusted what their true faith lie in

The people James confronted. were hearers not doers. They acted like the world did. While they believed in the death and resurrection, as demons believe in one God. they only had a claimed faith,. which was no faith at all. they proved this by the fact they had no works but continued to act like the world.

The belief in romans 10: 9 is a belief that has trust,. assurance,. faith. You do not faith something you believe something

There is belief that is faith as in romans 10: 9

there is also a belief that is not faith. as I have showed you many examples

in stead of trying to prove me wrong. why do you not open your mind and see what is in front of you
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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How?

1. Because you do not believe the death and resurrection is the complete payment for your sin, You believe you in the end have to work, or you will not be saved

2. You believe in the death and resurrection. But you do not believe it was for you. It was for people like Hitler. and all those evil people. I am a good person. and I can say a sinners prayer, and I am saved,, and I can continue to live as I want to, because asgain, I am not a bad person.

3. You believe in the death and resurrection. But your faith is in the church,. and all of their traditions, sacraments, and following them is your way to heaven, Fail to do that you will fall away and salvation will be lost.

The jews paul spoke to believed in the death and resurrection. their faith was in the law though, so in the end, they trusted what their true faith lie in

The people James confronted. were hearers not doers. They acted like the world did. While they believed in the death and resurrection, as demons believe in one God. they only had a claimed faith,. which was no faith at all. they proved this by the fact they had no works but continued to act like the world.

The belief in romans 10: 9 is a belief that has trust,. assurance,. faith. You do not faith something you believe something

There is belief that is faith as in romans 10: 9

there is also a belief that is not faith. as I have showed you many examples

in stead of trying to prove me wrong. why do you not open your mind and see what is in front of you
I apologize this might be out of the blue but you caught my attention I am hoping I can get you to explain your understanding of death and resurrection not to prove anything but I can't help but feel you have an understanding of it that needs to be unwrapped
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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I apologize this might be out of the blue but you caught my attention I am hoping I can get you to explain your understanding of death and resurrection not to prove anything but I can't help but feel you have an understanding of it that needs to be unwrapped
In context of my post. The death and resurrection means that people believe Jesus died, and was risen from the dead. Some people stop there though, which is why they believe it happened, but they do not understand or trust what the death and resurrection accomplished.

Jesus was the lamb of God. who took away the sin of the world. reflecting to the law. A lamb without spot was slaughtered on the day of redemption. When this happened. All sin since the last time this occurred was forgotten or redeemed or forgiven.

the problem is. after this, when people sinned again, That sin had to be redeemed again.l so as the author of Hebrews said, yearly they went in and made this sacrifice for the sin of the people.

the second problem is the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin.

So Jesus, as God man, who fulfilled the law by never breaking it even once. hence not coming under the curse of the law which every other human being is guilty of. Became that perfect sacrifice. Which COULD take away sin, and died once, for the sin of mankind. and through this death, paid for the sin of the world.

The resurrection is for our benefit. It proves God accepted his sacrifice as payment in full "it is finished) for our sins. and gives us hope, that based on his sacrifice, if we place our trust in him as repentant sinners, his death will apply to us and we to be resurrected to eternal life.

This is the rest Jesus promised

Sadly, as we see even in these chat rooms. Many people believe in the death and resurrection, However, they do not have faith in it, they will spend there whole lives trying to work to earn what God has freely offered to them. While they claim they are secure and are resting, in reality they are not. Because while they believe, they do not have faith.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,115
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In context of my post. The death and resurrection means that people believe Jesus died, and was risen from the dead. Some people stop there though, which is why they believe it happened, but they do not understand or trust what the death and resurrection accomplished.

Jesus was the lamb of God. who took away the sin of the world. reflecting to the law. A lamb without spot was slaughtered on the day of redemption. When this happened. All sin since the last time this occurred was forgotten or redeemed or forgiven.

the problem is. after this, when people sinned again, That sin had to be redeemed again.l so as the author of Hebrews said, yearly they went in and made this sacrifice for the sin of the people.

the second problem is the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin.

So Jesus, as God man, who fulfilled the law by never breaking it even once. hence not coming under the curse of the law which every other human being is guilty of. Became that perfect sacrifice. Which COULD take away sin, and died once, for the sin of mankind. and through this death, paid for the sin of the world.

The resurrection is for our benefit. It proves God accepted his sacrifice as payment in full "it is finished) for our sins. and gives us hope, that based on his sacrifice, if we place our trust in him as repentant sinners, his death will apply to us and we to be resurrected to eternal life.

This is the rest Jesus promised

Sadly, as we see even in these chat rooms. Many people believe in the death and resurrection, However, they do not have faith in it, they will spend there whole lives trying to work to earn what God has freely offered to them. While they claim they are secure and are resting, in reality they are not. Because while they believe, they do not have faith.
thank you for that it was great I would suggest we ponder on what was written here.

I would like to bounce something that I have recently thought of about it. We get salvation because we died to our flesh and were born again in Christ we were dead and now we are alive. Then I looked at Jesus he died his flesh died but when he was ressurrected you could say he was born again the next major thing you see is him ascending to heaven.
He kind of set the example in this we die we are resurrected/born again we do works like he did after his resurrection then we ascend to the heavens.

But I am thinking of this not as the rapture but in a spiritual sense. We die and are born again we do the work of God and then ascend to the heavens but the key word is ascend as in slowly rising and you get high enough your going to want to have faioth that he wont let you fall but once you get there you live in the kingdom of God as in the kingdom of God that resides in us all not a place but a spiritual position
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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thank you for that it was great I would suggest we ponder on what was written here.

I would like to bounce something that I have recently thought of about it. We get salvation because we died to our flesh and were born again in Christ we were dead and now we are alive. Then I looked at Jesus he died his flesh died but when he was ressurrected you could say he was born again the next major thing you see is him ascending to heaven.
He kind of set the example in this we die we are resurrected/born again we do works like he did after his resurrection then we ascend to the heavens.

But I am thinking of this not as the rapture but in a spiritual sense. We die and are born again we do the work of God and then ascend to the heavens but the key word is ascend as in slowly rising and you get high enough your going to want to have faioth that he wont let you fall but once you get there you live in the kingdom of God as in the kingdom of God that resides in us all not a place but a spiritual position
This reminds me of Romans 6. where paul states we ARE or WERE baptized into the death and burial. and as he was risen, we should walk in newness of life.

We are new creations, and as these new people. we should do the works Paul said we were created anew to do.

Our goal should be as pauls goal. to continue to run the race. the be like Christ in all ways, Keep our eye on the prize. because that is what we are working for. The calling, the battle and the eternal hope that we have done something to bring others into the fold. and not because of our actions hurt people because we are not acting like Christ. to bear fruit..
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,115
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This reminds me of Romans 6. where paul states we ARE or WERE baptized into the death and burial. and as he was risen, we should walk in newness of life.

We are new creations, and as these new people. we should do the works Paul said we were created anew to do.

Our goal should be as pauls goal. to continue to run the race. the be like Christ in all ways, Keep our eye on the prize. because that is what we are working for. The calling, the battle and the eternal hope that we have done something to bring others into the fold. and not because of our actions hurt people because we are not acting like Christ. to bear fruit..
Praise God! That is the main point I have been trying to drive home since I came back to cc and I can't tell you how serious he is about this he's done playing games and is calling we need to answer the phone
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Praise God! That is the main point I have been trying to drive home since I came back to cc and I can't tell you how serious he is about this he's done playing games and is calling we need to answer the phone
Amen

We also have to differentiate the reason people are doing this.. the motives behind it.

God looks at the heart. the motives. sadly many people will do these works. yet have no fruit. and sadder yet. Many do them yet have never truly met Christ.

As I said in another thread. Many people have Made Christ Lord. But what have we done with the cross.. Making Christ Lord and misrepresenting or rejecting the TRUE purpose of the cross is just as dangerous as not making Christ lord.. Because the heart is not in the right place.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Amen

We also have to differentiate the reason people are doing this.. the motives behind it.

God looks at the heart. the motives. sadly many people will do these works. yet have no fruit. and sadder yet. Many do them yet have never truly met Christ.

As I said in another thread. Many people have Made Christ Lord. But what have we done with the cross.. Making Christ Lord and misrepresenting or rejecting the TRUE purpose of the cross is just as dangerous as not making Christ lord.. Because the heart is not in the right place.
You are officially on my keep an eye on list I like you and have a good head on your shoulders.

If I can give a testiminoy that lead to my understanding of making him Lord. See I am a stubborn child I always have to learn things the hard way and for the past three years I have been brutally beaten bu the powers of hell no matter what I did no matter how much I commanded them I could only cling to God and just let it all happen. But this brought me to my end and I just got on my knees my head all the way to the ground and curled my meager body before and completely surrendered to him as my Lord. If you can believe it I was before the throne and I was swamped with his absolute authority and kingship his power and might it was like a thick tital wave and I couldn't stand I was shaking and I knew the fear of the Lord but this fear of him was not fear but the absolute reverence for him as Lord I gave him my all there in that state for him to be my Lord and king above all else.

Only then was I suddenly changed and my reason for existance changed and it was simply for the kingdom I became kingdom minded that changed everything I suddenly had authroity and I even was attacked again but this time I I knew who I was in him and knew who my king was and flat out told hell it's under my feet and the spirit that attacked me srunk back in cowerdness.

Making him your Lord surrendering completely being kingdom minded you live in the kingdom when you have this and it all begins with utter surrender.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,397
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You are officially on my keep an eye on list I like you and have a good head on your shoulders.

If I can give a testiminoy that lead to my understanding of making him Lord. See I am a stubborn child I always have to learn things the hard way and for the past three years I have been brutally beaten bu the powers of hell no matter what I did no matter how much I commanded them I could only cling to God and just let it all happen. But this brought me to my end and I just got on my knees my head all the way to the ground and curled my meager body before and completely surrendered to him as my Lord. If you can believe it I was before the throne and I was swamped with his absolute authority and kingship his power and might it was like a thick tital wave and I couldn't stand I was shaking and I knew the fear of the Lord but this fear of him was not fear but the absolute reverence for him as Lord I gave him my all there in that state for him to be my Lord and king above all else.

Only then was I suddenly changed and my reason for existance changed and it was simply for the kingdom I became kingdom minded that changed everything I suddenly had authroity and I even was attacked again but this time I I knew who I was in him and knew who my king was and flat out told hell it's under my feet and the spirit that attacked me srunk back in cowerdness.

Making him your Lord surrendering completely being kingdom minded you live in the kingdom when you have this and it all begins with utter surrender.
I was saved at a young age, in a Loving, fellowship oriented baptist church in columbus Ohio. Sadly. when that pastor left. He was replaced with many pastors. many who were legalistic in nature.. I would go out on visitation with my Dad and some of the deacons. and I would hear them tell people how they had to stop their sins, if they wanted to get to heaven, That if they did certain sins they were satanic. All kinds of things.. its like a fear tactic to try to get people to repent.

When I left to go to the military. I felt free from the legalistic chains that so entangled me. Instead of loving God and seeking to serve others. I was free to serve myself. Sadly I did some prety bad things. I eventually was brought back to God. and served for many years. In that time, My church collapsed. and I found another one. and was thrown back into the legalistic mindset through them (same baptist denomination) there my wife at the time started seeing another man behind my back and she ended up kicking me out. Again, thanks to legalistic mindset, I left the church. My marriage was bad for years. but I stayed because of what God said. Fearing they were going to tell me to go back and be with my wife or end up in hell. I once again became a prodigal son. until 5 years later, at the end of my rope. after committing many sins, God again brought me to my knees and I returned. Only this time, I returned to a different non denominational church a great friend of mine, who I led to the lord many years before. took me to. I came more humble. I changed many of my beliefs because I found I put to much faith in my teachers and pastors that I did not really study to shew myself approved.. I just blindly followed.

I am still growing. I have a ways to go.

anyway, Because of my experience. I hope you see why I fight legalism so hard.. I have seen many people walk away, because instead of people comming alongside and discipling them, they judge them as either not loving God or not being saved.. I believe the church on one hand can get to far to the left. and not properly disciple a people and sin grows rampant. On the other hand, I see them not come along side and diciple but instead judge people.

Both are dangers of the american church as it is today..