Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Bible completely disagrees with you on this subject:

1. The first resurrection contains the first group of people who died in refusing to take the MOTB in the GT.
2. After 1,000 years the rest of the saints are resurrected.
3. Pre-tribbers place the first resurrection at the time of the rapture before the great tribulation.
4. Pre-tribulation theory contradicts the Bible.

The way I'm reading Scripture, is that ALL saints [who've "died"] are "resurrected" IN TIME FOR [/before] the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS," aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER", aka "the meal [G347--see Lk12:36-37,38,40 and parallels; PLUS see Matt8:11 and parallel]); all "saints" (of ALL time periods) present and accounted for, THERE, at the commencement of the MK age.



For example, Daniel, and Job, and Martha all understood this ^ ... Daniel was told in Dan12:13 he would "[rest--in death] and stand in thy lot [be resurrected 'to stand again' on the earth] at the END of the days [at the END of the days referenced in that context--same time-slot as Dan7:25,27]"; Job said in Job19:25-27 same re: "the latter day"; and Martha acknowledge same "IN the last day," in Jn11:24. All of these mean that they will be resurrected (defined as 'to stand again') for that particular time I'm speaking of (rather than what we know of when the GWTj occurs, AFTER the MK age)

 

[ewq1938]

You're getting tangled in a web of contradictions. That's what happens when the Bible is poorly interpreted. Let me detangle that for you.

Revelation 20:4-6 is the first resurrection that occurs in two phases separated by a period of 1,000 years. The first group are Christians who died during the great tribulation for refusing to accept the mark of the beast. The second group is everyone else. Both groups make the first resurrection.

Incorrect. The first resurrection is when ALL of the dead in Christ resurrect. Revelation 20 only focuses upon one small group but at that same time all the dead in Christ will rise. Everyone else that remains dead are the unsaved and they resurrect after the thousand years to be judged at the GWTJ.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm looking at the Greek (rather than at the translations):

Acts 3:21 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) "timeS [plural; G5550 - χρόνων chronōn ]"

It doesn't matter. When the restoration happens is one a certain day. While that is singular of time, there are many hours and minutes in a day which is plural time. So "time" or "times" are both accurate to the meaning and intent of the scripture.

 

[BenjaminN]

I had never noticed that before. But indeed there is a difference, but what is the difference? One is the earthly millennial kingdom, the one in John 14:1-3 is not?

Agreed. Christ Yeshua now in his ascended glorified body, together with the soul of the repented criminal that was crucified with Him, is in Paradise, God the Father's Heaven, together with all believers that have died until present, where Christ Yeshua prepared a place for them (John 14:1-3). Christ Yeshua will return with the souls of the believers in Heaven, when they will be resurrected into glorified earthly bodies, and will be raptured to the clouds together with the transformed glorified bodies of those still alive. All believers, resurrected and alive on earth, will meet the descending, once and finally returning to earth, Christ Yeshua in the clouds, at their raptured ascension in their glorified bodies. After this, Christ Yeshua will descend with his armies upon the remaining unbelieving earth, and conquer earth to rule over His Millennial Kingdom with His saints (Revelation 20 & Ezekiel 37).

John 14 (New King James Version)

The Way, the Truth, and the Life
1“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2In My Father’s house are many [a]mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[BenjaminN]

Ezekiel 37 (New King James Version)

The Dry Bones Live
1The hand of the Lord came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. 3And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

So I answered, “O Lord God, You know.”

4Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5Thus says the Lord God to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”

7So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.

9Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the [a]breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” ’ ” 10So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.

11Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

One Kingdom, One King
15Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16“As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

18“And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

24“David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26Moreover I will [c]make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It doesn't matter. When the restoration happens is one a certain day. While that is singular of time, there are many hours and minutes in a day which is plural time. So "time" or "times" are both accurate to the meaning and intent of the scripture.

I've already addressed that in a past post... "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive UNTIL the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age"... ("times") is not referring to what takes place on "a singular 24-hr day" (nor on the singular 24-hr day of His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19--In the SAME WAY that 2Th1:7-8's "[rest with us] IN THE REVELATION OF the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels, in fire of flame INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON..." is also not referring to merely "a singular 24-hr day's time" [which usually ppl think this speaks of the point-in-time of His "RETURN" / Rev19 / His Second Coming to the earth])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ezekiel 37 (New King James Version)

The Dry Bones Live

Who are you saying are identified as "the dry bones"? Just asking. = )

 

[TheWaytoGo]

Jesus is not speaking to Christians in Mark 13........at all.
He is expanding on Daniel ch 9. And Daniel is not speaking to Christians either.

This is eschatology 101. The division between Israel and the Church.
Something so many in the Church today refuses to recognize.

Replacement theology, Amillennialism, Post-millennialism, Preterism.....all heresies of this present age. Most of it insinuates that the Church has replaced Israel in some way shape form or fashion.
It hasn't. Paul writes about this extensively in Ephesians, Romans......it's everywhere.

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Paul was in fact a pre-trib premillennial rapturist. He taught it and he was very clear about it. In terms of the Church.......unassailable doctrine IMO.

The Church is one and done. The first resurrection is the greater set of that subset. The Church stands alone and is utterly unique in all of redemptive history. The Church is unimaginably blessed. A fact which we can celebrate for all eternity.

I disagree 100%

 

[TheWaytoGo]

The great tribulation saints are a different group from the church, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 as a group which no man can count from every nation, people, tribe and language, which would make them Gentiles. These are those who will have become believers after the church has been caught up and during the time of God's wrath. They will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they are on the earth during that time. The nation Israel will also be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, as well as the 144,000.

These saints during the time of God's wrath, are those who will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will be exposed to the beast, his image and his mark.



"Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

If we look at the verse above and as explained in the previous post, 'blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed' would be speaking to those who are believers, not unbelievers. In order to remain awake, one would already have to be awake. This is not describing an unbeliever, but one who is already having faith. In addition, why would Jesus be giving a warning to those who would not be reading His word? They wouldn't see it nor would they care!. But those saints who are on the earth during that time would see the Lord's warning.



After the church has been gathered, there will people who will become believers on the earth during the time of God's wrath. Many of them will be killed by the beast. Those who die will be resurrected after God's wrath and when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, as described in Rev.20:4-6. This is one of the stages of the first resurrection which will be of the saints who died during the tribulation period, as described below.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

These saints will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they will be on the earth during that time. We know this from the following:

"‘Never again will they hunger, and never will they thirst; nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat.’

Never hunger = this is indicative of the 3rd seal rider on the black horse which represents world-wide famine, not to mention all the other plagues which will cause famine during that time

Never will they thirst = indicative of the 3rd trumpet where a third of the rivers and springs of water are contaminated killing many, as well as the 1st and 2nd bowl where the seas and fresh water are turned into literal blood.

Nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat. = this is in reference to where the angel pours the 4th bowl judgment upon the sun where it is given power to scorch the inhabitants of the earth with fire, searing them with intense heat.

This demonstrates that these saints will be exposed to God's wrath simply they are on the earth during that time period.

Not one person becomes a "believer" during God's Wrath. The Word cannot lie.

Rev_9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.​

Rev_16:9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.​

Rev_16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.​

You cannot change the FACT that the verse is speaking to the earth dwellers left on earth AFTER the Rapture and during God's Wrath. They will shortly be put through the vinepress and the blood will be up to the horses' bridles for 200 miles.

Whether you are pre, mid, pre-mill, or post Rapture viewpoint, no one knows for sure why God makes this statement to the wicked ones. The King James attributes the statement in red as direct from Jesus' mouth, but the NASB leaves it open to the individual's interpretation. Safe to say, neither you or I, know for sure either. I will not try to shoe horn in my personal objective. You are trying to do that and blowing your whole pre-trib viewpoint, that the 7 years is God's Wrath, and no child of God is appointed to God's Wrath, thus no child of God can be on earth during God's Wrath, so we return to this statement not being made to God's Children, but to the children of wrath.

Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.​

 

[TheWaytoGo]

No "pre-tribber" calls them "lesser believers" (only those who hold to the "PARTIAL-rapture theory" who suggest such things

[*I*, and most pre-tribbers, do not hold to the "partial-rapture theory"... nor to a "kingdom-exclusion theory [for any member of 'the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY']" like C.Missler began to adopt in his LATER ministry, like post-2008[??] or somewhere thereabouts]





Tell me, you don't think much of the following verse, right? "[in the "resurrection chpt"] 41 one glory of sun, and another glory of moon, and another glory of stars, for star from star doth differ in glory."

I have been told numerous times that the beheaded saints are Jewish converts, who didn't "choose" Jesus in time to escape like the church did, so they get what is coming. Sick, I know.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I have been told numerous times that the beheaded saints are Jewish converts...

There is no direct basis in Scripture for this conclusion, although we do know that Moses and Elijah (presumably) will be preaching in Jerusalem for 3 1/2. But they will be heard worldwide (Revelation 11).

 

[FreeGrace2]

They, the 144k, are firstfruits.

Apparently you are unaware of these verses:

1 Cor 15:20 - But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
2 Thess 2:13 - But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

So, Jesus Christ is described as being "the firstfruits" of resurrection, followed by "those who belong to Him", and GENTILES are described as "firstfruits".

But 144k Jews? Nope. Not "firstfruits".

They are in heaven ahead of the ripe fruit Jesus gathers.

Where, exactly, do you get your material? I recommend reading the Bible and getting the facts.

Rev 7
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:
3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

These 144k Jews receive the seal of God BEFORE the 4 angels will harm the land and sea (OF THE EARTH). This proves that these 144k Jews are ON THE EARTH, not in heaven.

All facts
I am just a reporter.

Fake news. No facts.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I have been told numerous times that the beheaded saints are Jewish converts, who didn't "choose" Jesus in time to escape like the church did, so they get what is coming. Sick, I know.

Since this thread is a challenge to provide verses that teach that Jesus takes resurrected/raptured saints back to heaven.

Do you have any? Thanks.

 

[BenjaminN]

Who are you saying are identified as "the dry bones"? Just asking. = )

The dry bones are all the currently living identity-lost posterity's children of the tribes of Jacob/Israel, of which the divided former monarchic kingdom of Israel under king David and king Solomon, is now currently still split into the southern kingdom of Judah among the Jews which are partly regathered but still living in unbelief of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; as well as the whole of the northern kingdom of Israel's Ephraim's eight and two half tribes of the northern kingdom, which is to this day still missing and scattered among the nations, whether in unbelief of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or living among Christians unaware of their sons-of-Jacob/Israel identity.

Ezekiel 37 (New King James Version)

11Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.

Whilst Revelation 20 read together with Revelation 7:9,14 speaks of the saints from among believers from every tribe, tongue and nation to be ruling over the whole of the earth during Christ Yeshua's Millennial Kingdom reign, Ezekiel 37 specifically speaks about the restoration of the tribes of Israel in the land of Israel, during Christ Yeshua's Millennial Kingdom reign. The posterity of the tribes of Judah among the Jews of today, are partly regathered and aware of their identity as children of Jacob/Israel, whilst the posterity of the tribes of Ephraim, still completely living with a lost identity since their 740BC Assyrian captivity, are still scattered, un-gathered, and un-re-united with their brothers of Judah among the Jews, as to-be-restored Israel under the Kingship of Christ Yeshua.

The dry bones speaks in all likelihood of unrestored, scattered, un-gathered, to-be-restored-Israel under Christ Yeshua's in His Millennial Kingship. The dry bones in all likelihood speaks of the former united monarchic kingdom of Israel, under king David and Solomon, that has since completely lost their united sons of Jacob/Israel believing identity in God.

Ezekiel 37 (New King James Version)

6 ...Then you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”... 11Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”


Deuteronomy 28 (New King James Version)

64“Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a [v]trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

68“And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”

 

[BenjaminN]

I have been told numerous times that the beheaded saints are Jewish converts, who didn't "choose" Jesus in time to escape like the church did, so they get what is coming. Sick, I know.

Revelation 7 (New King James Version)

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation
9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Absolutely]

Every single verse that references the rapture is set in context of the second coming of Christ. Christ returns once.

Do you say Christ returns once, twice, or three times?

Rev 14.
That alone debunks you.

That coming is in no way the second coming on billions of horses.

Neither is mat 24, mat 25, acts 1,

 

[cv5]

I disagree 100%

Wow. Looks like we finally have an admission. So you agree with replacement theology?
Are you in a millennialist?

 

[BenjaminN]

Wow. Looks like we finally have an admission. So you agree with replacement theology?
Are you in a millennialist?

Seems like some individuals calling themselves "Christians" here on ChristianChat.com, have been deceived before, by the the unbiblical false teaching of https://bit.ly/Christianzionism , which false doctrine does not unite believing Jews and Gentiles alike, as believing Christians, being united as believing Church members alike, both being members of the Body of Christ Yeshua, under the Kingship of Christ Yeshua.

 

[cv5]

Seems like some individuals calling themselves "Christians" here on ChristianChat.com, have been deceived before, by the the unbiblical false teaching of https://bit.ly/Christianzionism , which false doctrine does not unite believing Jews and Gentiles alike, as believing Christians, being united as believing Church members alike, both being members of the Body of Christ Yeshua, under the Kingship of Christ Yeshua.

Hannegraff is a partial preterist and amillennialist. He believes in replacement theology. He hit the heretic trifecta. No wonder he's completely clueless about end time eschatology......he has been blinded by Almighty God Himself. I think the same goes for anyone who believes in replacement theology.
Supposedly he's joined with the eastern orthodox Church to boot. At least that's the rumor.

He is one confused dude. He is also completely wrong.....about so many things you might as well say well everything Nothing he says can be trusted.


"Then there is Hank Hanegraaff, whose radio program, The Bible Answer Man, hails from Charlotte, North Carolina. Mr. Hanegraaff has a tremendous ability to memorize and recall Scripture, but he holds to Replacement Theology. He went so far as to call Tim LaHaye a racist and blasphemer (he has since toned down his criticism) and is no friend to The Friends of Israel because he disagrees with us and believes the church is Israel. Once again, this is Replacement Theology."

 

[BenjaminN]

Hannegraff is a partial preterist and amillennialist. He believes in replacement theology. He hit the heretic trifecta. No wonder he's completely clueless about end time eschatology......he has been blinded by Almighty God Himself. I think the same goes for anyone who believes in replacement theology.
Supposedly he's joined with the eastern orthodox Church to boot. At least that's the rumor.

He is one confused dude. He is also completely wrong.....about so many things you might as well say well everything Nothing he says can be trusted.


"Then there is Hank Hanegraaff, whose radio program, The Bible Answer Man, hails from Charlotte, North Carolina. Mr. Hanegraaff has a tremendous ability to memorize and recall Scripture, but he holds to Replacement Theology. He went so far as to call Tim LaHaye a racist and blasphemer (he has since toned down his criticism) and is no friend to The Friends of Israel because he disagrees with us and believes the church is Israel. Once again, this is Replacement Theology."

If you as an alive believer at Christ Yeshua's second coming, do not meet Him in the clouds in your transformed glorified body, together with the resurrected believers in their glorified bodies, at our rapture, then it ain't Christ Yeshua. They cannot fake you meeting Christ Yeshua in the clouds for the first time at His next and final second coming.

How to easily not be deceived, and be able to spot the difference between the coming of the false messiah, and Christ Yeshua's next and final second coming?: