LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

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MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
325
99
28
#1
It is clear in verse 12, that women were not to be allowed to preach publicly, in churches. But it is less clear what verse 11 means, as to the order for women to learn in silence in church. So since the Bible is not clear on that subject, I think women have to prayerfully decide that for themselves.
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV
We have recently started to attend a Mennonite church in town here. I like the church a lot. I admire and enjoy how so many men are willing to preach in the meetings. This is not true in most other churches. I have chosen not to even answer Bible questions that are asked by some of the preachers there, as I'm afraid it would offend some men there or intimidate them. My own dad (now with the Lord in heaven) said he believed women should not talk at all in Bible meetings or church meetings. I also learned from a man (Jerry) that attends the Mennonite church - that he doesn't believe women should speak in church meetings. So I gather that a number of men feel that way.
I am curious to know others' opinions of why it may be that men speak so little in most other churches. What do you think? Do you think it's because in our society - culture - women are largely often overly controlling over men (or insubmissive) , such as their own husbands?
I know their men are taught to preach a lot more commonly in their youth, compared to in Christian families that attend most other churches. I like that, and can imagine that is one reason this Mennonite church has so many men who like to teach and preach.
Also, I notice in the visiting time that takes place outdoors after Sunday AM church services - that the men show a lot more enjoyment for talking together (and discussing spiritual things too with others), as compared to what I see in other churches. They aren't in a hurry to rush home. The women too - of course, enjoy visiting together, too during that time - more than I see in other churches.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,534
993
113
#2
It is clear in verse 12, that women were not to be allowed to preach publicly, in churches. But it is less clear what verse 11 means, as to the order for women to learn in silence in church. So since the Bible is not clear on that subject, I think women have to prayerfully decide that for themselves.
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV
We have recently started to attend a Mennonite church in town here. I like the church a lot. I admire and enjoy how so many men are willing to preach in the meetings. This is not true in most other churches. I have chosen not to even answer Bible questions that are asked by some of the preachers there, as I'm afraid it would offend some men there or intimidate them. My own dad (now with the Lord in heaven) said he believed women should not talk at all in Bible meetings or church meetings. I also learned from a man (Jerry) that attends the Mennonite church - that he doesn't believe women should speak in church meetings. So I gather that a number of men feel that way.
I am curious to know others' opinions of why it may be that men speak so little in most other churches. What do you think? Do you think it's because in our society - culture - women are largely often overly controlling over men (or insubmissive) , such as their own husbands?
I know their men are taught to preach a lot more commonly in their youth, compared to in Christian families that attend most other churches. I like that, and can imagine that is one reason this Mennonite church has so many men who like to teach and preach.
Also, I notice in the visiting time that takes place outdoors after Sunday AM church services - that the men show a lot more enjoyment for talking together (and discussing spiritual things too with others), as compared to what I see in other churches. They aren't in a hurry to rush home. The women too - of course, enjoy visiting together, too during that time - more than I see in other churches.
The bibe gives two reasons for women to be silent in the church.

One is that the man was not deceived, the woman Eve was deceived.

Two, the man represents Christ and the woman represents the church. Christ is our husband and we should be taught by him, not the other way around.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
15,009
2,901
113
#3
It is clear in verse 12, that women were not to be allowed to preach publicly, in churches. But it is less clear what verse 11 means, as to the order for women to learn in silence in church. So since the Bible is not clear on that subject, I think women have to prayerfully decide that for themselves.
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV
We have recently started to attend a Mennonite church in town here. I like the church a lot. I admire and enjoy how so many men are willing to preach in the meetings. This is not true in most other churches. I have chosen not to even answer Bible questions that are asked by some of the preachers there, as I'm afraid it would offend some men there or intimidate them. My own dad (now with the Lord in heaven) said he believed women should not talk at all in Bible meetings or church meetings. I also learned from a man (Jerry) that attends the Mennonite church - that he doesn't believe women should speak in church meetings. So I gather that a number of men feel that way.
I am curious to know others' opinions of why it may be that men speak so little in most other churches. What do you think? Do you think it's because in our society - culture - women are largely often overly controlling over men (or insubmissive) , such as their own husbands?
I know their men are taught to preach a lot more commonly in their youth, compared to in Christian families that attend most other churches. I like that, and can imagine that is one reason this Mennonite church has so many men who like to teach and preach.
Also, I notice in the visiting time that takes place outdoors after Sunday AM church services - that the men show a lot more enjoyment for talking together (and discussing spiritual things too with others), as compared to what I see in other churches. They aren't in a hurry to rush home. The women too - of course, enjoy visiting together, too during that time - more than I see in other churches.

Wow, did you pick an issue to open with!! Well, as a woman who was in ministry 20yrs. guess I'm not the best person to answer this. While I didn't preach, per say, I definitely spoke from the platform. I was single when I traveled so I guess I wasn't "insubmissive".
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
407
304
63
#4
At my church's quarterly business meetings (which sometimes involve issues on how the church should be operated, etc.), sometimes people are passionate about certain issues including women who may talk for a long time on how they feel, and I think it is beneficial to know all the different views and ideas floating around. Our Bible study groups are mostly co-ed, but it is mostly women who attend and lead the discussion. Of the 10 women or so who attend in these groups, there are probably only two men. There is also a men's group, as well as unofficial ladies' groups. Sometimes we have congregation-wide studies where we all sit in the sanctuary (to fit everyone), and everyone is encouraged to raise their hands and speak up.

I think women being silent in church may lead to other consequences, such as girls/women subconsciously thinking they should be silent in the classroom, the workspace, etc., or anywhere where a boy/man is present. Is this a good thing?
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
407
304
63
#5
Priscilla was a teacher who taught another man (Apollos). So, I believe women, certainly married women, can teach other men.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#6
As I have stated in many other similar threads Paul saying that "I do not permit' is not the same as God saying that He does not permit. It was Paul's opinion that women should keep quiet in church and not God's.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,703
3,063
113
59
#7
As I have stated in many other similar threads Paul saying that "I do not permit' is not the same as God saying that He does not permit. It was Paul's opinion that women should keep quiet in church and not God's.
I agree
Maybe Paul said it because he had in his mind that Eve led Adam astray...
...xox...
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,520
1,566
113
#8
At my church's quarterly business meetings (which sometimes involve issues on how the church should be operated, etc.), sometimes people are passionate about certain issues including women who may talk for a long time on how they feel, and I think it is beneficial to know all the different views and ideas floating around. Our Bible study groups are mostly co-ed, but it is mostly women who attend and lead the discussion. Of the 10 women or so who attend in these groups, there are probably only two men. There is also a men's group, as well as unofficial ladies' groups. Sometimes we have congregation-wide studies where we all sit in the sanctuary (to fit everyone), and everyone is encouraged to raise their hands and speak up.

I think women being silent in church may lead to other consequences, such as girls/women subconsciously thinking they should be silent in the classroom, the workspace, etc., or anywhere where a boy/man is present. Is this a good thing?
But what saith the Scriptures...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#11
I agree
Maybe Paul said it because he had in his mind that Eve led Adam astray...
...xox...
I believe that he mentioned that as part of his reasoning process. Eve was deceived but Adam knew full well that what he was going to do was a sin. In my reasoning process, if I based my opinion on what happened in the Garden of Eden I would say that perhaps men should keep silent in church and not have positions of authority over women. I believe that Paul's opinion was also based on the prevailing culture and traditions that existed at that time.
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
871
542
93
#12
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

another thread for pugilists, misogynists, misinterpretation and all around bad feelings.

Because of course this has never ever been argued discussed before in this forum
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#13
She was with her husband and they pulled him aside.
Say what? Priscila was in fact was a teacher over men. Deborah was a judge over the entire nation of Israel. There are other examples in the bible that have women in positions of authority over men.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#14
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

another thread for pugilists, misogynists, misinterpretation and all around bad feelings.

Because of course this has never ever been argued discussed before in this forum
Since I have been a member in 2014 there have been at least 20 threads on this topic.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#15
At my church's quarterly business meetings (which sometimes involve issues on how the church should be operated, etc.), sometimes people are passionate about certain issues including women who may talk for a long time on how they feel, and I think it is beneficial to know all the different views and ideas floating around. Our Bible study groups are mostly co-ed, but it is mostly women who attend and lead the discussion. Of the 10 women or so who attend in these groups, there are probably only two men. There is also a men's group, as well as unofficial ladies' groups. Sometimes we have congregation-wide studies where we all sit in the sanctuary (to fit everyone), and everyone is encouraged to raise their hands and speak up.

I think women being silent in church may lead to other consequences, such as girls/women subconsciously thinking they should be silent in the classroom, the workspace, etc., or anywhere where a boy/man is present. Is this a good thing?
No, it's a bad thing. To avoid hard feelings from men perhaps women should skip attending church altogether and let men enjoy their boys only club.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#16
Maybe Paul said it because he was moved by the Holy Spirit.;)
Of course he was moved by the Holy Spirit. All writers in the bible were moved by the Holy Spirit. Everything in the bible is truthfully stated but not everything stated is a statement of truth.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,802
9,814
113
65
Florida
#17
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

another thread for pugilists, misogynists, misinterpretation and all around bad feelings.

Because of course this has never ever been argued discussed before in this forum
I believe Paul was a pugilists as he mentioned boxing while fighting the good fight.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,520
1,566
113
#18
Say what? Priscila was in fact was a teacher over men. Deborah was a judge over the entire nation of Israel. There are other examples in the bible that have women in positions of authority over men.
The verse at hand is concerning the body of Christ. Do you not agree with God?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
3,463
1,203
113
#19
It is clear in verse 12, that women were not to be allowed to preach publicly, in churches. But it is less clear what verse 11 means, as to the order for women to learn in silence in church. So since the Bible is not clear on that subject, I think women have to prayerfully decide that for themselves.
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV
I think these verses are often taken out of context in interpretation in more than one way:

1. This commandment was issued to WIVES, and was meant to regulate behavior of COUPLES in church.
This verse does not even refer to an elder Christian widow or virgin, as is usually mistaken.

2. This commandment was issued to a specific group of Christians, because there were specific problems.
People were basically arguing in church and there was no edifying conversation taking place. That cannot be had.

3. People don't bother to understand what "usurping authority" means to begin with.
If husband and wife teach the same doctrine, the wife might come into a situation to preach to someone if moved by God, and husband will back her up! (Like the Biblical example of Priscilla and Aquilla.) If her husband approves, how is this a breach of authority? Jesus does not get upset with us if we (His bride) teach what He also taught! In fact, He encourages us.

4. Jesus comes higher than a husband on the authority hierarchy.
If my husband starts preaching unbiblical heresies, am I supposed to still "learn in subjection"?

5. Romans 12:10 "in honor preferring one another".
To shut your wife up if she's moved to speak in group setting by the Spirit would contradict the Scripture. We are not supposed to fight for our turn and lord over our spouse (husband or wife) or others in conversation, this comes from pride and isn't a godly spirit.