LETS TEST THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS

[journey41]

Hi everybody. There are questions regarding other books not contained in the bible. Believe it or not, some believe & read & quote from these books. We should test these books. If it goes against our scripture from the holy bible then it doesn't belong. I repeat, it can not contradict. We have to put this to rest so there is no more confusion. I will start with the Gospel of Thomas. Lets analyse with a fine tooth comb. I only have a couple of verses to start with. You can join me too and can add other scriptures if you find anything interesting or worth questioning.

THE BOOK OF THOMAS says
12) The disciples said to Jesus: We know that thou wilt go from us. Who is he who shall be great over us?Jesus said to them: In the place to which you come, you shall go to James the Just for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.

The apostles asked Jesus who will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven among them? According to Thomas, it is James. Lets compare to what Jesus says in the Holy Bible

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Matt 18:3 Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 18:4 Whosever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Mark 9:37 Whosever shall receive on of such children in my name, recieves me; and whosever shall receive me, receives not me, but him that sent me.

Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receives me: and whosoever shall receive me receives him sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

So there you have it. Jesus answer. His three witnesses testify the same thing. Thomas is the odd one out for he says that James will be the greatest, and not only this, that it is the same purpose that heaven and earth came into being. All for James’ sake? This sounds very odd. I thought it was for Gods purpose, not James.

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Well we have established that Thomas's verse above does not match but contradicts the Holy Bible. Gods written word. Lets look at the next one.

The BOOK OF THOMAS says
(13) Jesus said to his disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter said to him: Thou art like a righteous angel. Matthew said to him: Thou art like a wise man of understanding. Thomas said to him: Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom thou art like. Jesus said: I am not thy master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast become drunk from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he took him, went aside, and spoke to him three words. Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say unto thee? Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Matthew 16: 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Phillip, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the son of man am?

Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist, some, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mark 8:28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elijah, and others, One of the prophets.

Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answered and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

Luke 9:19 They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elijah, and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.

Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

There we have it. Matthew, Mark and Luke all giving the same version of what was answered. The bible does not specify which apostle answered except Peter when Jesus directly asked him. Thomas is the odd one out again because his version says Simon Peter answered he was like a righteous angel, then goes on to point Matthew as saying Jesus was like a wise man of understanding and of course Thomas says Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom you are like. The appostles all knew he was the Son of God, their messiah, or they wouldn’t of left everything for him. Jesus was only asking who do men say that he is?. Then directly asked Peter who he thought he was and Peter gave him the direct answer. He did not tell Thomas that he was drunk from the bubbling spring. This is false.

The book of Thomas is not reliable so far, and I've only started. I have spotted a few verses that are ok and line up, but keep in mind that is only there to decieve. It's looking at the whole picture and all the discrepancies. We can see how many contradictions in the end. The book was not written by the appostle Thomas. This an imposter, as Thomas was a servant of Christ and not a false witness.
I will end it here just for now. More to come.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

i might plainly say it.....i do not believe in it nor do i believe the gospel of barnabas or judas.....i think they are cathlioc or some belief. If it isn't in the Holy bible then why is it separated? makes you wonder why.....

There was actual missing books of the bible that was part of our bible....but there lost....like book of jasher.....who has it? Acts of Solomon who has it? book of Nathan the prophet who has it? book of Jehu who has it?

this bring up another thread that someone said Is Psalms 151 inspired......i think not but i could be wrong....because there isn't a psalms 151 in my bible.....

 

[AnandaHya]

yeah there is a lot of false doctrines floating around even back then. the devil puts out more every year.

 

[PBUH]

Hi everybody. There are questions regarding other books not contained in the bible. Believe it or not, some believe & read & quote from these books. We should test these books. If it goes against our scripture from the holy bible then it doesn't belong. I repeat, it can not contradict. We have to put this to rest so there is no more confusion. I will start with the Gospel of Thomas. Lets analyse with a fine tooth comb. I only have a couple of verses to start with. You can join me too and can add other scriptures if you find anything interesting or worth questioning.

THE BOOK OF THOMAS says
12) The disciples said to Jesus: We know that thou wilt go from us. Who is he who shall be great over us?Jesus said to them: In the place to which you come, you shall go to James the Just for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.

The apostles asked Jesus who will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven among them? According to Thomas, it is James. Lets compare to what Jesus says in the Holy Bible

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Matt 18:3 Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 18:4 Whosever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Mark 9:37 Whosever shall receive on of such children in my name, recieves me; and whosever shall receive me, receives not me, but him that sent me.

Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receives me: and whosoever shall receive me receives him sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

So there you have it. Jesus answer. His three witnesses testify the same thing. Thomas is the odd one out for he says that James will be the greatest, and not only this, that it is the same purpose that heaven and earth came into being. All for James’ sake? This sounds very odd. I thought it was for Gods purpose, not James.

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Well we have established that Thomas's verse above does not match but contradicts the Holy Bible. Gods written word. Lets look at the next one.

The BOOK OF THOMAS says
(13) Jesus said to his disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter said to him: Thou art like a righteous angel. Matthew said to him: Thou art like a wise man of understanding. Thomas said to him: Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom thou art like. Jesus said: I am not thy master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast become drunk from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he took him, went aside, and spoke to him three words. Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say unto thee? Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Matthew 16: 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Phillip, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the son of man am?

Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist, some, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mark 8:28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elijah, and others, One of the prophets.

Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answered and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

Luke 9:19 They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elijah, and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.

Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

There we have it. Matthew, Mark and Luke all giving the same version of what was answered. The bible does not specify which apostle answered except Peter when Jesus directly asked him. Thomas is the odd one out again because his version says Simon Peter answered he was like a righteous angel, then goes on to point Matthew as saying Jesus was like a wise man of understanding and of course Thomas says Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom you are like. The appostles all knew he was the Son of God, their messiah, or they wouldn’t of left everything for him. Jesus was only asking who do men say that he is?. Then directly asked Peter who he thought he was and Peter gave him the direct answer. He did not tell Thomas that he was drunk from the bubbling spring. This is false.

The book of Thomas is not reliable so far, and I've only started. I have spotted a few verses that are ok and line up, but keep in mind that is only there to decieve. It's looking at the whole picture and all the discrepancies. We can see how many contradictions in the end. The book was not written by the appostle Thomas. This an imposter, as Thomas was a servant of Christ and not a false witness.
I will end it here just for now. More to come.

You are assuming that Matthew , Mark and Luke are correct.

You should apply the same test to the gospel of John.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You are assuming that Matthew , Mark and Luke are correct.

You should apply the same test to the gospel of John.

And you should know that the CrummyRan is a fablebook like Aesop's, only not as interesting or realistic.

 

[Loloy]

Wow... great information...

This is my fist time hearing - there's a gospel of Thomas...

 

[journey41]

[

quote=PBUH;411542]You are assuming that Matthew , Mark and Luke are correct.

You should apply the same test to the gospel of John.

[/QUOTE]Ok lets test it. What do you consider a contradiction? We can look at it.

 

[journey41]

continued...He's another scripture from the Gospel of Thomas to test.

The Book of Thomas says

14) Jesus said to them: If you fast, you will beget a sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do an evil to your spirits. And if you go into any land and travel in its regions, if they receive you eat what they set before you. Heal the sick among them. For that which goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which comes forth from your mouth, that is what will defile you.

Lets look at;

If you fast, you will beget a sin for yourselves

The Holy Bible says
Matthew 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Acts 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

1Corinth 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Its contradicting the bible. Doesnt fit.

and this one

If you pray, you will be condemned

Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matt 21:22 And all things whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall recieve. Contradiction.

Who would believe a book telling us that we would be condemned if we pray? Something seriously wrong here.

If you give alms, you will do an evil to your spirits.

Luke 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and behold, all things are clean unto you.

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms: provide yourselves bags wich wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that fails not, where no theif approaches, neither moth corrupts.

Alms means to give to charity..help the poor or needy. For a start Thomas says that if we do this deed then we will do evil to our spirits. I dont even know if I want to go on, but have to finish this whole verse. One contradiction to go.

And if you go into any land and travel in its regions, if they recieve you eat what they set before you.

1Corinth 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

1Corinth 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

So you can eat anything, but Thomas doesnt mention that if the person tells you it's been sacrificed, then DONT EAT IT.

more to come...maybe...are we gettin the picture so far? And this is only a couple of verses I've mentioned so far...

 

[WeStand]

[
[/QUOTE]Ok lets test it. What do you consider a contradiction? We can look at it.

Hi Journey; Thank-you for being so kind to take this a couple of verses at a time; i'm figuring that your taking my lack of skills on a computer into account and i appreciate that a lot.

1st point; Although i hadn't read the book of Thomas until recently; surely i can't be the only one who has heard him reffered to as Doubting Thomas?

What i beleive you have pointed out, is how he got this reputation in the first place.But then again look at the situation on this site, lots of squabling over the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. I don't understand why you would want to put someone down for simply being honest with people about himself and his condition, at that time.

2nd point; why would he say to go to James the Just?

The book of James is another book that just barely survived the critics, as they wanted to toss it as well. Good thing for US that they didn't, as this is the only book in the Bible that is literally adressed to each and everyone of us, and contains very pertinent information for the times were living in now.

To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greetings,

Gods mission is to save souls, and i don't personally see any problem with going to the book of James, as it may very well be, that this is the best place in the Bible to mabey come together under one accord? i dunno, mabey i've got my hopes too high
You have helped me decide, the next one of these lost books that i'll read, will be the one from James; thank-you for helping me to decide on that

One thing for sure, the book of James that he directs us to, certainly doesn't have any doubt concerning Christ, rather exhorts Christ, from one who as well doubted, his 1/2 brothers Words, until the ressurection.

Anyway hopefully some good things for us to at least consider.

Look forward to hearing your adressing of other verses that may cause you concern.

Forever in Christ

 

[contemplative]

Its contradicting the bible. Doesnt fit.

Alternatively, it's just a little vague. You'll understand it if you read it in context.

So you can eat anything, but Thomas doesnt mention that if the person tells you it's been sacrificed, then DONT EAT IT.

The context in 1 Corinthians 10 is the discussion of food sacrificed to idols. The reason a believer would choose not to eat food which is identified as sacrificed to idols is to protect the consciences of those whom he's with. What is the context of the passage in Thomas? Let's look at the rest of it:

For that which goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which comes forth from your mouth, that is what will defile you.

This is clearly parallel to Matthew 15, in which Jesus says:

Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.

Here, in the canonical gospel, Jesus is talking to some very self-assured people who have attacked him for failing to observe their rules of dietary purity. The rest of the saying must be understood in that context.

Let's flip back some chapters to Matthew 6, in which Jesus talks about the proper way to give alms secretly (1-4), pray in secret (5-15), and fast in secret (16-18). This is the same trinity of actions which Jesus accuses people of doing in public to bolster their image. Nobody reading Thomas would think Jesus doesn't want us to give alms, pray, or fast. Everyone reading Thomas, if they put out a little effort, will understand that Jesus is talking with his tongue-in-cheek about giving alms, praying, or fasting with bad motives. After all, going down to the 27th saying, Jesus is supposed to have said:

"If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the kingdom."

Am I saying that your main thesis, that the Gospel of Thomas doesn't line up with orthodoxy, is wrong? No. But you're arguing very lazily. In this specific case, for instance, Thomas doesn't contradict the canonical gospels. It just requires a little bit of patience on the reader's part to understand a terse saying.

 

[dscherck]

i might plainly say it.....i do not believe in it nor do i believe the gospel of barnabas or judas.....i think they are cathlioc or some belief. If it isn't in the Holy bible then why is it separated? makes you wonder why.....

There was actual missing books of the bible that was part of our bible....but there lost....like book of jasher.....who has it? Acts of Solomon who has it? book of Nathan the prophet who has it? book of Jehu who has it?

this bring up another thread that someone said Is Psalms 151 inspired......i think not but i could be wrong....because there isn't a psalms 151 in my bible.....

The "gospel" of Thomas isn't recognized as canonical by the Catholic Church. While we do have 7 other books we recognize as canonical, the "gospel" of Thomas isn't one.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

The "gospel" of Thomas isn't recognized as canonical by the Catholic Church. While we do have 7 other books we recognize as canonical, the "gospel" of Thomas isn't one.

really do not know much about this stuff....don't read it...just my bible

 

[WeStand]

continued...He's another scripture from the Gospel of Thomas to test.

The Book of Thomassays

Lets look at;
The Holy Bible says
Matthew 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Acts 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

1Corinth 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Its contradicting the bible. Doesnt fit.

and this one
Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matt 21:22 And all things whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall recieve. Contradiction.

Who would believe a book telling us that we would be condemned if we pray? Something seriously wrong here.


Luke 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and behold, all things are clean unto you.

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms: provide yourselves bags wich wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that fails not, where no theif approaches, neither moth corrupts.

Alms means to give to charity..help the poor or needy. For a start Thomas says that if we do this deed then we will do evil to our spirits. I dont even know if I want to go on, but have to finish this whole verse. One contradiction to go.

1Corinth 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

1Corinth 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

So you can eat anything, but Thomas doesnt mention that if the person tells you it's been sacrificed, then DONT EAT IT.

more to come...maybe...are we gettin the picture so far? And this is only a couple of verses I've mentioned so far...

Hi Journey; though my gift is not remembering where every verse in the Bible is, i do thank God for those of you that do, so that when i refer to certain verses, you's all know that there at least in the Bible. So please forgive me if i don't get them exact word for word, but i will not attempt to change their meaning, but prayerfully through me give a little deeper insight.

If you pray, you will be condemed.

Did not Christ adress us in Matthew Ch 6, just before teaching us the Lords Prayer; all of these things that concern you? as well as Mark, Luke and John.

I would have to discern that Thomas is adressing the information that is in Romans 8.

Rom: 8:26; Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: But the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

From my studies; i beleive that we are to pretty much to stick to The Lords Prayer, as this is a framework of pure thought to build upon, when adressing The Father.

We must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Christ intercedes for all the whining and complaining; that He doesn't want to hear, from you, about you; rather whine and complain to Him about the situation, concerning ALL His children.

I,m not sure how many so called churchs do this; but anytime they openly ask for money, they are insulting Christ, as He doesn't send forth beggars; and The Truth, HAS NEVER BEEN FOR SALE

Forever in Christ

 

[dscherck]

really do not know much about this stuff....don't read it...just my bible

It's okay. Most people don't really know much about Catholicism. There's a lot of misconceptions out there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Journey; though my gift is not remembering where every verse in the Bible is, i do thank God for those of you that do, so that when i refer to certain verses, you's all know that there at least in the Bible. So please forgive me if i don't get them exact word for word, but i will not attempt to change their meaning, but prayerfully through me give a little deeper insight.

If you pray, you will be condemed.

Did not Christ adress us in Matthew Ch 6, just before teaching us the Lords Prayer; all of these things that concern you? as well as Mark, Luke and John.

I would have to discern that Thomas is adressing the information that is in Romans 8.

Rom: 8:26; Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: But the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

From my studies; i beleive that we are to pretty much to stick to The Lords Prayer, as this is a framework of pure thought to build upon, when adressing The Father.

We must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Christ intercedes for all the whining and complaining; that He doesn't want to hear, from you, about you; rather whine and complain to Him about the situation, concerning ALL His children.

I,m not sure how many so called churchs do this; but anytime they openly ask for money, they are insulting Christ, as He doesn't send forth beggars; and The Truth, HAS NEVER BEEN FOR SALE

Forever in Christ

One thing I have found is that many false books have some truth, I read the book of mormon, There is alot of stuff in there which would agree with Scripture. The problem is the most important parts do not, This has been satan's tactic since the beginning. Take some truth, Mix in some lie. And people will see the truth, not look at the lie (contradiction) and be fooled into believing the lie. Which history shows has happened over and over and over.

 

[FSUBoy966]

I always take the books that aren't in the Bible with a grain of salt. I've read the Gospels of Thomas and Mary, and a few other books, and they are VERY interesting. While they aren't necessarily Biblical, they do offer insight to early Christians and how they felt on certain issues. And, to be honest, the Catholics were the one that compiled the final Bible and kicked out a lot of these books b/c they did not feel they were "good." Just read them and pray on it. If you get good feelings, maybe God doesn't mind you looking at these as scripture. If you get bad feelings, obviously you should only read them for fun/educational purposes.

 

[Scotth1960]

Hi everybody. There are questions regarding other books not contained in the bible. Believe it or not, some believe & read & quote from these books. We should test these books. If it goes against our scripture from the holy bible then it doesn't belong. I repeat, it can not contradict. We have to put this to rest so there is no more confusion. I will start with the Gospel of Thomas. Lets analyse with a fine tooth comb. I only have a couple of verses to start with. You can join me too and can add other scriptures if you find anything interesting or worth questioning.

THE BOOK OF THOMAS says
12) The disciples said to Jesus: We know that thou wilt go from us. Who is he who shall be great over us?Jesus said to them: In the place to which you come, you shall go to James the Just for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.

The apostles asked Jesus who will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven among them? According to Thomas, it is James. Lets compare to what Jesus says in the Holy Bible

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Matt 18:3 Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 18:4 Whosever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Mark 9:37 Whosever shall receive on of such children in my name, recieves me; and whosever shall receive me, receives not me, but him that sent me.

Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receives me: and whosoever shall receive me receives him sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

So there you have it. Jesus answer. His three witnesses testify the same thing. Thomas is the odd one out for he says that James will be the greatest, and not only this, that it is the same purpose that heaven and earth came into being. All for James’ sake? This sounds very odd. I thought it was for Gods purpose, not James.

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Well we have established that Thomas's verse above does not match but contradicts the Holy Bible. Gods written word. Lets look at the next one.

The BOOK OF THOMAS says
(13) Jesus said to his disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter said to him: Thou art like a righteous angel. Matthew said to him: Thou art like a wise man of understanding. Thomas said to him: Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom thou art like. Jesus said: I am not thy master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast become drunk from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he took him, went aside, and spoke to him three words. Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say unto thee? Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.

THE HOLY BIBLE says
Matthew 16: 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Phillip, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the son of man am?

Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist, some, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mark 8:28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elijah, and others, One of the prophets.

Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answered and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

Luke 9:19 They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elijah, and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.

Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

There we have it. Matthew, Mark and Luke all giving the same version of what was answered. The bible does not specify which apostle answered except Peter when Jesus directly asked him. Thomas is the odd one out again because his version says Simon Peter answered he was like a righteous angel, then goes on to point Matthew as saying Jesus was like a wise man of understanding and of course Thomas says Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom you are like. The appostles all knew he was the Son of God, their messiah, or they wouldn’t of left everything for him. Jesus was only asking who do men say that he is?. Then directly asked Peter who he thought he was and Peter gave him the direct answer. He did not tell Thomas that he was drunk from the bubbling spring. This is false.

The book of Thomas is not reliable so far, and I've only started. I have spotted a few verses that are ok and line up, but keep in mind that is only there to decieve. It's looking at the whole picture and all the discrepancies. We can see how many contradictions in the end. The book was not written by the appostle Thomas. This an imposter, as Thomas was a servant of Christ and not a false witness.
I will end it here just for now. More to come.

The book of Thomas is clearly false, gnostic, and not a Gospel. It is not good news for all people. It contains much heretical teaching. And it was not written by St. Thomas. The Church in her wisdom from the Holy Spirit (John 16:13) wisely and correctly rejected this book, along with all of the rest of the NT Apocrypha, and the OT Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. Take care. In Erie PA Scott

 

[WeStand]

The book of Thomas is clearly false, gnostic, and not a Gospel. It is not good news for all people. It contains much heretical teaching. And it was not written by St. Thomas. The Church in her wisdom from the Holy Spirit (John 16:13) wisely and correctly rejected this book, along with all of the rest of the NT Apocrypha, and the OT Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. Take care. In Erie PA Scott

To each their own opinion, thank-you for checking this out for everybody, and even siding with the ones who sell part of the truth; But seem to be hiding the facts.

If you don't check things out for yourself, its your loss.

Forever in Christ

 

[journey41]

Hi Westand, thanks for your comments. We should test everything.
[

quote=WeStand;411794]Hi Journey; Thank-you for being so kind to take this a couple of verses at a time; i'm figuring that your taking my lack of skills on a computer into account and i appreciate that a lot.

No probs. Too much to do it all in one hit!

1st point; Although i hadn't read the book of Thomas until recently; surely i can't be the only one who has heard him reffered to as Doubting Thomas?

Yes, he was called this because he didn't believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Jesus showed himself however and Thomas believed. He was a true appostle, carefully chosen by Jesus. The appostles were taught by the messiah himself. They were not used to spread lies, but the truth. God doesn't put things out there for us that are untrue. Thats not his way.

What i beleive you have pointed out, is how he got this reputation in the first place.But then again look at the situation on this site, lots of squabling over the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. I don't understand why you would want to put someone down for simply being honest with people about himself and his condition, at that time.

Please dont get me wrong. I am not putting Thomas down. He was a true appostle, even though he had his little doubting moment. Look at Peter, he denied Christ 3 times, but they were forgiven because they were very loved by the Lord, and the Lord knows & understands human behaviour when put under pressure. It was also for us to learn by. This Thomas who wrote this gospel is an imposter. It's not the same Thomas. Thats all I'm trying to say.

2nd point; why would he say to go to James the Just?

I've never read James being referred to as this. Jesus said call no man good, as Jesus always lifted up the Father and not man.
.
The book of James is another book that just barely survived the critics, as they wanted to toss it as well. Good thing for US that they didn't, as this is the only book in the Bible that is literally adressed to each and everyone of us, and contains very pertinent information for the times were living in now.
[/QUOTE]Really, I didn't know that?. James is one of my favourite epistles. Wonder whats so powerful in there that they cant accept!

To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greetings,

Ooh I get you now. Israel were scattered way before Jesus when the Babylonians conquered, then the Medes, then Greece, then the Romans..and later Britian..They only reformed in 1948. Nearly all returned, but I guess theres some that have since left Israel and are scattered now, along with the ones who were scattered then.

Gods mission is to save souls, and i don't personally see any problem with going to the book of James, as it may very well be, that this is the best place in the Bible to mabey come together under one accord? i dunno, mabey i've got my hopes too high

Are you talking about the book of James from the bible? Be happy to discuss. Look, the main thing is that we focus on the Lord, and the truth. If anything is false then we must eliminate it. We use the bible as our main superior source and compare other writings/beliefs to whats contained in the Holy Bible..Gods Word.. We know the enemy tries to cause confusion, so he'll use everything he's got. He's a liar and the truth is not in him. Thats how we can identify if something belongs to him or God. If we have believed a lie in the past, and God corrects us and guides us back to truth, and he does this by exposing the works of the devil (lies) then Glory to God and our Lord Jesus for having mercy on us and opening our eyes so that we can see a little clearer. If we accept and identify what he is showing us then we have a love for the truth. This is big in Gods eyes. This is what makes a true saint. God honours the truth seekers, for he is truth.

You have helped me decide, the next one of these lost books that i'll read, will be the one from James; thank-you for helping me to decide on that

I'm a little confused. Is there a lost book called James?

One thing for sure, the book of James that he directs us to, certainly doesn't have any doubt concerning Christ, rather exhorts Christ, from one who as well doubted, his 1/2 brothers Words, until the ressurection.

If you could fill me in a bit more, I'd appreciate it.
Anyway hopefully some good things for us to at least consider.

Look forward to hearing your adressing of other verses that may cause you concern.

Thanks, yes there will be more.
Forever in Christ [/quote]

Thanks Westand. Till next time. God bless.

 

[WeStand]

Hi Westand, thanks for your comments. We should test everything.
[No probs. Too much to do it all in one hit!
Yes, he was called this because he didn't believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Jesus showed himself however and Thomas believed. He was a true appostle, carefully chosen by Jesus. The appostles were taught by the messiah himself. They were not used to spread lies, but the truth. God doesn't put things out there for us that are untrue. Thats not his way.

Please dont get me wrong. I am not putting Thomas down. He was a true appostle, even though he had his little doubting moment. Look at Peter, he denied Christ 3 times, but they were forgiven because they were very loved by the Lord, and the Lord knows & understands human behaviour when put under pressure. It was also for us to learn by. This Thomas who wrote this gospel is an imposter. It's not the same Thomas. Thats all I'm trying to say.
I've never read James being referred to as this. Jesus said call no man good, as Jesus always lifted up the Father and not man.
.
The book of James is another book that just barely survived the critics, as they wanted to toss it as well. Good thing for US that they didn't, as this is the only book in the Bible that is literally adressed to each and everyone of us, and contains very pertinent information for the times were living in now.

Really, I didn't know that?. James is one of my favourite epistles. Wonder whats so powerful in there that they cant accept!

Ooh I get you now. Israel were scattered way before Jesus when the Babylonians conquered, then the Medes, then Greece, then the Romans..and later Britian..They only reformed in 1948. Nearly all returned, but I guess theres some that have since left Israel and are scattered now, along with the ones who were scattered then.

Are you talking about the book of James from the bible? Be happy to discuss. Look, the main thing is that we focus on the Lord, and the truth. If anything is false then we must eliminate it. We use the bible as our main superior source and compare other writings/beliefs to whats contained in the Holy Bible..Gods Word.. We know the enemy tries to cause confusion, so he'll use everything he's got. He's a liar and the truth is not in him. Thats how we can identify if something belongs to him or God. If we have believed a lie in the past, and God corrects us and guides us back to truth, and he does this by exposing the works of the devil (lies) then Glory to God and our Lord Jesus for having mercy on us and opening our eyes so that we can see a little clearer. If we accept and identify what he is showing us then we have a love for the truth. This is big in Gods eyes. This is what makes a true saint. God honours the truth seekers, for he is truth.

I'm a little confused. Is there a lost book called James?
If you could fill me in a bit more, I'd appreciate it.
Anyway hopefully some good things for us to at least consider.

Thanks, yes there will be more.
Forever in Christ [/quote]

Thanks Westand. Till next time. God bless.[/quote]

Hi Journey; Its been a bit, sorry, helping freinds that are moving.

Now i'm not sure what to say, as i'm assuming that you may have already read the other book of James by now also. On the off chance that you may not have; i'll pretend you haven't and respond accordingly.

You concerns reguarding your first issues were also answered very well by Contemplative; thanks Contemplative

Now to adress your concerns with James and him being reffered to as Just, and how i knew James is Christs 1/2 brother.

Their are a lot of religious people that beleive Mary remained a virgin her entire life. This is obviousley false, as we read of Christs mother, brothers, standing without (wanting something) while He is busy teaching, i beleive Christ was not to pleased with this, as there is nothing more important than Our Father Word.

Some where along my journeys in seeking truth, this was pointed out to me before, and i remember that my spirit did bear witness to what was shown.

Another question you could ask yourself is this; If bearing a child, is the greatest blessing anyone of us could receive from The Father, why on earth, would He withold more Blessings from Mary?

I was going to adress your concerns in another way; But now that i have read the other book of James, i think the introduction of this book speaks for itself; so here is why he was likely reffered to as just.

An Historical Account of the Birth of Christ and the Perpetual Virgin Mary, His Mother, by James the lesser, Cousin and Brother of the Lord Jesus Christ. A cheif Apostle and First Bishop of the Christians in Jerusalum.

Then you could also consider how the book of Jude begins, which shows why they couldn't throw James out.

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

I think it is important to also remember to keep things in the proper context of the times; that the English language has evolved in time, and words sometimes take on new meanings; to me this is why these books are so relevant to me, and i understand that when i do read them, i realize that i am only reading a translation of these books, and not studying the books myself, through a sincere Pastor.

As far as what you stated reguarding so-called physical Israel, well, although this is truth that you have stated, its confusing a little to me, as i understand that to be the Jews, returning to the physical land blessing of Judeah.

The physical land blessings of Isreal began here, but by no means stopped there; the Patriachel fathers of Isreal, received land blessings as well, and they were all in the geopraphical location of the Middle East; i know these lands to be the original land blessings of Jacob, when He reffers to the People of Jacob in the Bible; But Gods plan didn't stop there either;

These were the 10, 1/2 brothers of Joseph, that at one time, not only were going to kill him, except for the oldest brother stepping in and deciding against, concerned that it may give their old father Jacob (Israel) a heart attack, put him in a dried up well, till they finally decided to sell him off extra cheap as a slave to our enemies. (some brothers) and then informed Jacob that Joseph was eaten by a wild animal. This christian stuff,is tough stuff A? But Gods plan didn't stop there either; unfortunatly i'm not knowledgable enough to state for a fact the precise land blessing of Benjamin, Josephs full blood brother, in which Rachel died in giving birth to; i do know from my studies that this happened on the precise spot that Christ was born, Bethel ( the House of Bread) But Gods plan didn't stop there either;

Jacob (Israel) further gave land blessings as well to his 2 grandchildren (though prophetically) as well; Josephs 2 children Ephriam and Mannaseh.

Just the same way the blessings got crossed between Jacob(Isreal) and Essua; So did the blessings get crossed between Ephriam and Mannasah, with Mannaseh being the elder and Ephriam the youngest of the family of Isreal (Jacob) at the time of Israels passing over.

God plan is all about saving as many people as He can; as just as we have a way of protecting HIS children, that we are raising in the flesh for HIM, we naturaly spoil the youngest because of their innocency.

How can where I live, CanaDuh; being the youngest Country in the world; with an Army that was truly laughable; (until recently leased & purchased arms from USA) possibly have a Worldwide reputation of Peacekeepers?

Gen:Ch: 48; These blessings of Our Father are given in this Chapter; and Jacob (Israel) is merely carrying on fufilling them.

Mannasah:=(forgetful) a land prophesyed to be the Super Power of Super Powers; wonder who that may be

Ephriam:=(whoredoms and unclean lips) prophesyed to be a great commenwealth of lands; (with Gods Blessings) wonder who that may be?
Don't forget this is about lots of people; Judeah, Jacob, Israel, Jerusalum(Benjamin?)

Manasah and Ephriam are only a part of Israel (physically speaking) but being about lots of people; and taking into account of what Moses stated before his departure: For I KNOW that you's will go forth and utterly corrupt yourselfs; and seeing the awesome blessings of God to Judah (so-called Israel) and the nation that they have become since 1948; well you can understand better when you read the book of Hosea; why, it seems to me that Our Father is virtually crying through most of it.

Multi-Cultural North America??? or Gods Promise??? and at the end of times, i will gather them into a land of Milk and Honey; from an Oath of 7 wells to Abraham, through 7 major attempted world take overs, Northbound Israel (not Judah and Benjiman or Jacob) to 7 Great Lakes shared between 2 brothers land inheitances from God through Isreal (Jacob)

But this of course is just the physical Isreal we are speaking of here, and the physical evidence that you can look around and see; Spiritual Israel is any individual, to whom so ever will, that takes some of their time, cleanse themselves in the Lords Prayer, and being the sinners that we are, allowed through Christs sacrafice on the cross, to have the privalage that a High-Preist of the Old Law had, to be able to enter into the Holiest of Holies, in the centre of the Tabranacle and console (fear) Our Father (LOVE) that YES Father i now understand why you are SOoooo Upset.

The Spirit of LOVE; forced into Abrahams situation with Issiac on the Alter; only having to carry through, and thats how strong he feels, reguarding only ONE, let alone, God knows how many others???? thats why its tough, thats why were here, to see how many actually would, rape, murder, or abuse a child; and people don't beleive that were on a highway to hell???? Just waiting for a devil to make it offical, when he or it, arrives to deny it all, look like the big Hero, and spiritually kill (deceive)untold multitudes of Gods children; Thank GOD for the Lords Day, when He will again offer salvation, but what a horrible cost; 1000 more mortal years in an immortal body, then at the end of the Lords Day, that Great White throne judgement; The Lake of Fire in which both spiritual bodies and souls and gone forever

Personally you may look at it as a second chance; but i pray to God in and through Our Lord King and Saviour Jesus the Christ, that He helps me to perform enough rightous acts, to help cover my multitude of sins, that i do the right thing, and not be deceived so that i can make it as a firstfruit, at the begining of The Lords Day. I sure wouldn't want to count my chickens before their hatched.

Sorry for going on and not staying on the point; but you already have invited me to do that with you. Thank-You So Much Sister.

Forever in Christ