Limited Atonement -- Calvinist Style (Spurgeon was Reformed.)

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#41
This is precisely why I enjoy Gill's commentary. He goes as indepth as can be.

I have to admit, I had to translate predecessor to see if it means come after or before. My mind is toast.

Are you guys ever on the part of this website with the microphone option? Would be a nice place to have live input, maybe we could organize some live debates with actual moderation? I would like to hear a limited atonement debate by X and Y
I guarantee you guys will think I am american after you hear me speak, it has happened everytime :D
IDK. Which American do you speak? Yankee? New York City? Philadelphian? Southeast coast? Deep South? Western? Left coast? Border states? (Think Fargo.) Or Midwest? (The one people usually think we all talk like. lol) Got to say, there is some American I have as much trouble understanding as British, Scottish, Irish, or Aussie.

Good news though. I didn't know Gill was Reformed, so that cuts me off the long list for debating Limited Atonement. lol
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#42
Pffft.

I always suspected you'd like Gill more than I do. The dude talked a lot about targums, and I suspect you could actually keep straight which targum is which. (I cannot.)


(BTW, I do know the plural for targum isn't targums, but I forgot what it was, and am too lazy to look it up. lol)

Targi? No? Targa? Targumians? Am I close?
 
May 11, 2014
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#43
IDK. Which American do you speak? Yankee? New York City? Philadelphian? Southeast coast? Deep South? Western? Left coast? Border states? (Think Fargo.) Or Midwest? (The one people usually think we all talk like. lol) Got to say, there is some American I have as much trouble understanding as British, Scottish, Irish, or Aussie.

Good news though. I didn't know Gill was Reformed, so that cuts me off the long list for debating Limited Atonement. lol
I can recognize the philly accent I know three guys from there.

Tough to tell what type of american accent I would have, pretty standard probably. But some have said I pronounce words like a new yorker.

You are right btw that Gill often mentions targum and he seems to be very knowledgeable about the talmud, he quotes it quite often and says that Paul often because of his pharisee background prior to his conversion uses similar language and phrases. Very smart guy.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#44
Well I would have to disagree, to reform means "to make changes in"

If we accept that Reformed theology traces its roots back to the Reformation then the changes were that were made, were in response to the abuses and the corrupt teachings of the Catholic Church.

So it is not a new revelation, but a reformation or change, return to some of the original teachings of the scripture such as sola fide, sola scriptura, solo Christo, sola gratia, Soli Deo Gloria

Surely you co not have a problem with these?
Well I do disagree with your anology of returning to the orginal teachings, reform does no such thing, show me in scripture where Jesus said he was a Protestant. the point is Jesus is not any domination the whole domination thing is foolish.

Yes jesus died for all and anyone who believes shall be part of the elect and become as a elect, that is not predestined, Yes God knows already but that is not (man's business to determine) of who is and who is not,

the Calvinist think that garbage that is not a reform theory of any kind but evil. this thread about Calvinist style is utter non sense.
 
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#45
Believing in reformed theology is a wacked out nut case mind set in my opinion, it's bunch of none sense from folks who struggle with the orginal Theology in so much they call it reformed, there is nothing that needs reforming.
"Paul’s great object was not merely to instruct and to improve, but to save."

What's yours?
 
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Guest
#46
Targi? No? Targa? Targumians? Am I close?


Also don't remember what the plural for alumnus (female version) or insula (island) is. I'm old. If I could get a nickle for every thing I forget, I'd be a billionaire. lol
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#47
"Paul’s great object was not merely to instruct and to improve, but to save."

What's yours?
only Jesus saves, people can only lead other people to the truth, the people who were saved was from hearing the word Paul preached of Christ. It is Jesus who does the saving through a person's heart who accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour. And those people make that choice to follow Him, it's not predestined to believe, you had chosen to believe in a Saviour all on your own with free will, just like God gave Adam his free will to choose either don't touch the fruit or not.

Paul wasn't a calvinist or reformed baptist or reformed protestant,

Why do you feel a need to follow other people's idea's like John Calvin is John calvin mentioned in the bible?,, what it so special about John Calvin? than reading and knowing Jesus through scripture and having a personal relationship with Him.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#48
I said some original beliefs, and this does not mean Jesus was a protestant. Of course denominations are foolish, were there denominations during the first century Church. Nope.



Well I do disagree with your anology of returning to the orginal teachings, reform does no such thing, show me in scripture where Jesus said he was a Protestant. the point is Jesus is not any domination the whole domination thing is foolish.

Yes jesus died for all and anyone who believes shall be part of the elect and become as a elect, that is not predestined, Yes God knows already but that is not (man's business to determine) of who is and who is not,

the Calvinist think that garbage that is not a reform theory of any kind but evil. this thread about Calvinist style is utter non sense.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#49
I said some original beliefs, and this does not mean Jesus was a protestant. Of course denominations are foolish, were there denominations during the first century Church. Nope.
some of the orginal beliefs are more than likely used to build upon, the Catholics did it with the wedding at Cana, so they took that and ran with it and now Mary is some kind of Intercessor for Jesus a bunch of hog wash IMO.

Yes took a while for all those denoms to come about.

 
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#50
only Jesus saves, people can only lead other people to the truth, the people who were saved was from hearing the word Paul preached of Christ. It is Jesus who does the saving through a person's heart who accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour. And those people make that choice to follow Him, it's not predestined to believe, you had chosen to believe in a Saviour all on your own with free will, just like God gave Adam his free will to choose either don't touch the fruit or not.

Paul wasn't a calvinist or reformed baptist or reformed protestant,

Why do you feel a need to follow other people's idea's like John Calvin is John calvin mentioned in the bible?,, what it so special about John Calvin? than reading and knowing Jesus through scripture and having a personal relationship with Him.
Check out that post you gave with what I said. You were not teaching gospel. You were not out to save. You weren't even acting the part of a Christian.

Want to know who needs to be saved? You! Good thing God doesn't ever mention the only way to salvation is "people can only lead other people to the truth." Or "And those people make that choice to follow Him, it's not predestined to believe, you had chosen to believe in a Saviour all on your own with free will, just like God gave Adam his free will to choose either don't touch the fruit or not." If that were truth, you'll never be saved.

After all, your choice is to call others nut cases.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#51
salvation seems to have a lot to do with good decision making skills u see........
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#52
only Jesus saves, people can only lead other people to the truth, the people who were saved was from hearing the word Paul preached of Christ.
Yep. 2 Timothy 2:8-10 shows clearly Paul's "Calvinism." Also Romans 9. Also in his epistles the frequent glorying in God's election.

It is Jesus who does the saving through a person's heart who accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour.
No one is saved by personal decision.

And those people make that choice to follow Him,
The spiritually dead cannot and will not do this. Your gospel is false and contrary to Biblical revelation.

it's not predestined to believe,
Anti-Biblical drivel. All saved were predestined for salvation. But your false gospel differs from Scripture, so carry on:

you had chosen to believe in a Saviour all on your own with free will, just like God gave Adam his free will to choose either don't touch the fruit or not.
More nonsense, the lost are not free in their will.

Paul wasn't a calvinist or reformed baptist or reformed protestant,
Calvin got his "Calvinism" from Paul, Peter, the prophets, the apostles, and Christ from Scripture. You got your false doctrine from hand-me-down Sandemanism and Finney-ism.

Why do you feel a need to follow other people's idea's like John Calvin is John calvin mentioned in the bible?,, what it so special about John Calvin? than reading and knowing Jesus through scripture and having a personal relationship with Him.
Yet you want people here to follow your ideas that are anti-biblical.

No one here follows Calvin.

John 3:7
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#54
This was the first I had heard of the accusation, the pejorative called “decisional regeneration.” As I searched the Internet for the phrase, the accusation abounds… almost exclusively from Calvinists and Lordship Salvation advocates (usually one and the same) aimed at those who preach God’s Free Grace.



The false idea and straw-man of “decisional regeneration” is built upon the error perpetrated by religionists who preach that one can be saved or regenerated by “coming forward to the altar,” saying a “sinners prayer” or praying a “prayer of commitment.” They then presume the person is “saved” and “regenerated.”



It must be clearly understood that regeneration does not occur because of an altar call, the sinner’s prayer or a “commitment.”



The Biblical truth is that one must willingly believe or have faith that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is all sufficient and has completely paid his sin debt (which is eternal death – separation from God).



It is not an individual’s “decision” that regenerates but it is God’s Holy Spirit Who regenerates the individual the instant he freely and by his own will places his faith in Jesus Christ to save him.
However, most Calvinists, and many Lordship “salvationists,” reject outright man’s free will in responding to the Gospel by either believing in Christ as Savior or rejecting Him.
The Calvinists say no one can make a decision to trust Jesus Christ as Savior because of their belief in the first two false and ridiculous points of their Calvinist TULIP doctrine.

https://expreacherman.com/2013/02/2...eachers-it-is-called-decisional-regeneration/
 
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#55
This was the first I had heard of the accusation, the pejorative called “decisional regeneration.” As I searched the Internet for the phrase, the accusation abounds… almost exclusively from Calvinists and Lordship Salvation advocates (usually one and the same) aimed at those who preach God’s Free Grace.



The false idea and straw-man of “decisional regeneration” is built upon the error perpetrated by religionists who preach that one can be saved or regenerated by “coming forward to the altar,” saying a “sinners prayer” or praying a “prayer of commitment.” They then presume the person is “saved” and “regenerated.”



It must be clearly understood that regeneration does not occur because of an altar call, the sinner’s prayer or a “commitment.”



The Biblical truth is that one must willingly believe or have faith that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is all sufficient and has completely paid his sin debt (which is eternal death – separation from God).



It is not an individual’s “decision” that regenerates but it is God’s Holy Spirit Who regenerates the individual the instant he freely and by his own will places his faith in Jesus Christ to save him.
However, most Calvinists, and many Lordship “salvationists,” reject outright man’s free will in responding to the Gospel by either believing in Christ as Savior or rejecting Him.
The Calvinists say no one can make a decision to trust Jesus Christ as Savior because of their belief in the first two false and ridiculous points of their Calvinist TULIP doctrine.

https://expreacherman.com/2013/02/2...eachers-it-is-called-decisional-regeneration/
Did you even bother reading the OP or is your objective in life to babble away against any post that might -- just might, maybe, even hints at -- Calvinism?

Because you're not "Under Grace." You're under "I'm always right even when I don't understand what we're talking about."

You too could use the Lord's salvation, because your version doesn't work for any purpose.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
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#56
This was the first I had heard of the accusation, the pejorative called “decisional regeneration.” As I searched the Internet for the phrase, the accusation abounds… almost exclusively from Calvinists and Lordship Salvation advocates (usually one and the same) aimed at those who preach God’s Free Grace.



The false idea and straw-man of “decisional regeneration” is built upon the error perpetrated by religionists who preach that one can be saved or regenerated by “coming forward to the altar,” saying a “sinners prayer” or praying a “prayer of commitment.” They then presume the person is “saved” and “regenerated.”



It must be clearly understood that regeneration does not occur because of an altar call, the sinner’s prayer or a “commitment.”



The Biblical truth is that one must willingly believe or have faith that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is all sufficient and has completely paid his sin debt (which is eternal death – separation from God).



It is not an individual’s “decision” that regenerates but it is God’s Holy Spirit Who regenerates the individual the instant he freely and by his own will places his faith in Jesus Christ to save him.
However, most Calvinists, and many Lordship “salvationists,” reject outright man’s free will in responding to the Gospel by either believing in Christ as Savior or rejecting Him.
The Calvinists say no one can make a decision to trust Jesus Christ as Savior because of their belief in the first two false and ridiculous points of their Calvinist TULIP doctrine.

https://expreacherman.com/2013/02/2...eachers-it-is-called-decisional-regeneration/
so ur saying its not decisional regeneration. but when u decide u are regenerated. ok then.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#57
Did you even bother reading the OP or is your objective in life to babble away against any post that might -- just might, maybe, even hints at -- Calvinism?

Because you're not "Under Grace." You're under "I'm always right even when I don't understand what we're talking about."

You too could use the Lord's salvation, because your version doesn't work for any purpose.
so ur saying its not decisional regeneration. but when u decide u are regenerated. ok then.
I'm glad some people actually get it and the 2 posts above are proof.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#59
Someone else brought up the personal decision piece, I brought in a biblical response.

So bizarre that the doctrine that a person can hear the Gospel message and choose to believe the Gospel message is so offensive.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou SHALT be saved.” Acts 16:31

Just trying to save other people from a miserable Christian walk who may be reading this thread.

It is not about me as you seem to assume,

No worries I missed this was your thread, I won't be back.

Did you even bother reading the OP or is your objective in life to babble away against any post that might -- just might, maybe, even hints at -- Calvinism?

Because you're not "Under Grace." You're under "I'm always right even when I don't understand what we're talking about."

You too could use the Lord's salvation, because your version doesn't work for any purpose.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#60
so ur saying its not decisional regeneration. but when u decide u are regenerated. ok then.
Why did you deliberately misrepresent what was posted? Does that reflect your Calvinistic beliefs?

Kindly read through that post you have quoted, and respond with Scripture to anything that you wish to dispute.