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I did not listen to the clip, but would like to ask you something. After you believed and ask the Lord to forgive you of your sins, were you punished by God in any way for the sins you had committed? When the blood of Christ purged your conscience from dead works associated with sin, did you live in any guilt for the sin that God had cleansed you from? Did the women caught in the very act of adultery, who was brought to the temple before the presence of Christ, get condemned and receive the punishment of stoning for her sin or was she given grace by Jesus Christ and exhorted to go and sin no more?
Didn't Jesus Christ take our sin upon His own body when on the cross, being punished for our sin through the shedding of His own blood and through death, so that when we believed upon Him we might be free from sin and the wages of sin which is death? Didn't Jesus Christ become our substitute and atone for our sins on the cross that we might have life not death? Those that have believed upon Christ will never be punished for any sin because Christ was punished in their place.
If we sin and continue in that sin, He will chasten us as His son until it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness in this life or if we reject His chastening and He may take us home early through physical death and without dying grace. The sin never took away His imputed righteousness and salvation that was given by grace but we will suffer loss and be ashamed at the coming of Christ. The only thing we experience when we sow to the flesh, is some form of corruption in our soul or body, but this is not punishment but rather a reaping and sowing law of the flesh, it is a form of death but not physical death.
Didn't Jesus Christ take our sin upon His own body when on the cross, being punished for our sin through the shedding of His own blood and through death, so that when we believed upon Him we might be free from sin and the wages of sin which is death? Didn't Jesus Christ become our substitute and atone for our sins on the cross that we might have life not death? Those that have believed upon Christ will never be punished for any sin because Christ was punished in their place.
If we sin and continue in that sin, He will chasten us as His son until it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness in this life or if we reject His chastening and He may take us home early through physical death and without dying grace. The sin never took away His imputed righteousness and salvation that was given by grace but we will suffer loss and be ashamed at the coming of Christ. The only thing we experience when we sow to the flesh, is some form of corruption in our soul or body, but this is not punishment but rather a reaping and sowing law of the flesh, it is a form of death but not physical death.
C
Shad agree with 80% of what you said however, while not trying to sound legalistic here, I have found absolutely no scripture to support that God forgives future sin, which we knowlingly commit despite the fact that we know is unpleasing to God, without repenting for that sin. I feel that in doing so you are guilty of making assumptions concerning God's character that you simply do not have the authority to make and that by teaching this to others you are giving something away that it is simply not yours to give. This my friend is very dangerous and exactly the reason why there are so many people out their who profess to be saved yet have no desire or conviction to give up their drug - alcohol - gambling addictions, their adulterous affairs and / or their promiscuous lifestyles all of which the bible cleary states is abominable behavior and a stench in the nose of God.
In ending, please do not think that - because I possess a different opinion - that I am somehow exalting my personal beliefs over your personal salvation. That is the last thing I want to do. I merely wanted to share a different perspective for others to think about.
In ending, please do not think that - because I possess a different opinion - that I am somehow exalting my personal beliefs over your personal salvation. That is the last thing I want to do. I merely wanted to share a different perspective for others to think about.
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The reason that many continue in sin is because they have no power over sin. Many have tried to sincerely repent over and over and that didn't work. They cried out to God in their weakness and asked God to overcome their sin for them and it did not happen. They tried to restrain themselves and for awhile they had victory but went right back into it. After all that they gave up and said the heck with it. God must not want to give me victory over my sin and they backslid and didn't care what happened to them or what others thought about them. They probably thought they lost their salvation and that God didn't care about them any longer and gave up on them. EVERY SINGLE THOUGHT THEY HAD ABOUT NOT GETTING VICTORY OVER SIN AND WHAT GOD THINKS ABOUT THEM IS ABSOLUTE LIES! And those lies did not come from God or His word either.
The reason they don't have victory over sin is because they have the wrong idea about what God did on the cross to their sin, they don't understand positional truth from God's viewpoint and they are not receiving grace that would give strength in their weakness. Because of these things they live in guilt and condemnation when they sin and are never built up and edified by God's word and don't realize that the blood of Christ covers them when they sin just as much as when they don't sin. The are instantly defeated in their mental attitude when the thought of sin enters their mind and they are drawn away of their own lust and enticed with no power through grace to live in victory over sin.
I have plenty more I would like to say but I will leave it there for now. One last thing. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world / 1Jn 2:2, that is for every single sin from every man born under heaven, that would ever be committed in this life, past, present, future and with no exceptions. If that was not true then His sacrifice and atonement would be incomplete and His blood would be limited in its power it has to cleanse us from ALL sin and justify the ungodly. You want the verses on this, I'll give them to you on the next post, and there are plenty.
The reason they don't have victory over sin is because they have the wrong idea about what God did on the cross to their sin, they don't understand positional truth from God's viewpoint and they are not receiving grace that would give strength in their weakness. Because of these things they live in guilt and condemnation when they sin and are never built up and edified by God's word and don't realize that the blood of Christ covers them when they sin just as much as when they don't sin. The are instantly defeated in their mental attitude when the thought of sin enters their mind and they are drawn away of their own lust and enticed with no power through grace to live in victory over sin.
I have plenty more I would like to say but I will leave it there for now. One last thing. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world / 1Jn 2:2, that is for every single sin from every man born under heaven, that would ever be committed in this life, past, present, future and with no exceptions. If that was not true then His sacrifice and atonement would be incomplete and His blood would be limited in its power it has to cleanse us from ALL sin and justify the ungodly. You want the verses on this, I'll give them to you on the next post, and there are plenty.
G
Yes, when Jesus died for OUR sins they were all future! God is outside of time that is why predestination, free will and foreknowlege are all mute points. God knew in eternity past that we would choose to believe and that Snail would try to derail them. Just read 1 John 1
It is sad when people who are sealed by the Spirit of God are bluffed into believing that they are beyond God's reach.
I was an atheist for a few months. I was still saved.
It is sad when people who are sealed by the Spirit of God are bluffed into believing that they are beyond God's reach.
I was an atheist for a few months. I was still saved.
So you presume, but as the bible teaches (and I get my teaching from the bible not human reasoning), you would be not permitted to enter heaven for the sin of disbelief and denial:
Mat 10:33 But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven.
Only if you returned from unbelief would be you grafted in again after being broken off:
Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.
Rom 11:23 And those also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again.
A person who is sealed by the Spirit would not become an atheist.
Mat 10:33 But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven.
Only if you returned from unbelief would be you grafted in again after being broken off:
Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.
Rom 11:23 And those also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again.
A person who is sealed by the Spirit would not become an atheist.
To be sealed with the Spirit is to be stamped with God's mark of ownership and have the Spirit in our hearts:
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
It means to be stamped with the image of God. So the question then is, how can a person stamped with the image of God ever become an atheist? Because one of the fruits of this is faith:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Being sealed with the Spirit is dependant upon our hearing and believing:
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Which is why I said that a person cannot be in unbelief and be sealed with the Spirit at the same time.
In fact despite greatkraws claim that you can be an atheist and still go to heaven, disbelief would grieve the Holy Spirit which we are instructed not to do:
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed until the day of redemption.
That means you'd be going to heaven sealed by a grieved Holy Spirit which is dangerous.
We are told to approach God in full assurance of faith:
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
Because without faith it's impossible to please God:
Heb 11:6 But without faith itis impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Greatkraw presumes a person would please God when they reach the gates of heaven in unbelief, and having grieved the Holy Spirit?
I've presented scriptures, greatkraw has presented a couple of lines of human reasoning and declarations, you decide which is right.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
It means to be stamped with the image of God. So the question then is, how can a person stamped with the image of God ever become an atheist? Because one of the fruits of this is faith:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Being sealed with the Spirit is dependant upon our hearing and believing:
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Which is why I said that a person cannot be in unbelief and be sealed with the Spirit at the same time.
In fact despite greatkraws claim that you can be an atheist and still go to heaven, disbelief would grieve the Holy Spirit which we are instructed not to do:
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed until the day of redemption.
That means you'd be going to heaven sealed by a grieved Holy Spirit which is dangerous.
We are told to approach God in full assurance of faith:
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
Because without faith it's impossible to please God:
Heb 11:6 But without faith itis impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Greatkraw presumes a person would please God when they reach the gates of heaven in unbelief, and having grieved the Holy Spirit?
I've presented scriptures, greatkraw has presented a couple of lines of human reasoning and declarations, you decide which is right.
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I believe differently than most people. I suspect that though the flames of hell burn forever, no one gets sent there forever unless they never repent of their sin. I’m sure you disagree with that.
Having said that, John 3:16, which tells us that whoever believes in God’s only Son should not perish but have eternal life, suggests to me an atheist isn’t going to get into heaven until he stops being an atheist.
I got onto this thread to agree with your point that being an atheist and being saved are contradictory, in my opinion.
Having said that, John 3:16, which tells us that whoever believes in God’s only Son should not perish but have eternal life, suggests to me an atheist isn’t going to get into heaven until he stops being an atheist.
I got onto this thread to agree with your point that being an atheist and being saved are contradictory, in my opinion.
O
In the clip the speaker was saying that there are people who feel that their sins are not forgiven but he did not elaborate further on some of his examples (probably because of time restraints). Union is permanent but one can still lose their fellowship. That is why many of us still repent and ask for forgiveness. Perhaps it may be easier to view "punishment" as consequences. If you commit a crime and the government punishes you for it, will God take that punishment away? He could but He probably wouldn't. However, your sin for committing that crime was forgiven even before you committed that sin. I may have misinterpreted what the speaker was saying but it sounded as if he was putting it out that not only are sins forgiven but there are no punishments for any of your sinning - intentional or otherwise. That was the part that I couldn't get my head around.
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