Lord we need you! Foundational truths

[Grace777x70]

Here is what Paul had to say about those in Corinth that had Christ living in them because of Christ's righteousness only.

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?

I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.

 

[PeterJens]

A statement

If one takes one statement, and pulls out the statement to isolate it, and show it as
it is, is this a crime or wrong? For some it appears so.

But think, go to the note above and it is there, in full context. It is a way of highlighting
the position. Yet in their minds this is a good criticism. And doing this is then evil because
one is putting on a different slant than intended.

Again this is odd, because words carry their meaning in the words. If you meant something
else use different words.

And sometimes people are commenting on the concept embedded in the sentence not how
it is used, or miss-understood. We do not own our words once spoken, they own themselves
and pass on a message. It is the problem of creativity, once created people do with it what
they want.

This demonstrates the lack of experience many have in proper discussion or proper respect.

There is value in being provactive, playing devils advocate, putting ideas into different contexts,
showing ideas and their connections. All these things expand the light and where we stand.

And in Christ, this is a fantastic place, victorious, loving and part of heaven now on earth.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man who is in Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.


1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling

3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4)The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6)The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption


1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only thing that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32

 

[gb9]

As I stated before, it appears we all believe very similar things.
So why the antagonism?

And if I reflect back the statements made by me, how is this slander?
How is it judgemental to point out differences in approach and belief?
If people literally say something I have not said, am I not allowed to call it out?
If I am told what I believe and what my attitude is, am I not allowed to say
what I believe and what my attitude actually is without being told I am lying?

In all communication, once you put words into other peoples mouths and start
accusing them of unspecified "crimes", you have already destroyed the respect.

Is there an advantage in behaving like this?
I am your brother in the faith, a follower of Jesus and a redeemed saint walking
in the ways of Jesus. Now if you feel I am still sinning, please tell me my sin,
so that I might repent and get right with God.

An example of this is gb9's comment, I do not define sin biblically. I have answered
this many times, yet still the same nebulous statement. Sin goes against Gods will.
Sin is based upon action in thought or deed. After you have committed a sin you are
a sinner, not you are a sinner so commit sin. A murderer is a murderer after committing
murder not before. For me the spirit is obvious antagonism, and not a sense of being
part of a body of believers. This is not my doing, it is where you have placed yourselves
in your own minds.

God bless you, and may Christ reign in your hearts, bringing love to all through the Holy
Spirit.

I agree with what you say about sin. but, you need to carry it out to it's full meaning. so add missing the mark and falling short of a standard, and you will have a complete definition of sin.

 

[PeterJens]

There is a fear, it makes some tremble, you might think you are perfect, have arrived
and get totally depressed when you discover you have not suddenly made it.

If we came to Christ because we knew we were different from Him, the obviously
overnight we are not going to be like Jesus.

This is the step by step work of sanctification. It is knowing what we should be
and working towards that place from where we are in Christs strength.

 

[PeterJens]

I agree with what you say about sin. but, you need to carry it out to it's full meaning. so add missing the mark and falling short of a standard, and you will have a complete definition of sin.

Here is the problem. Sin is when you disobey a command.
It is easy to say in the obvious case when it is broken. The difficulty comes when you
get into grey areas. Legalists hate grey areas so they define a language that refines
the definitions as if this makes is safer. It just makes the disputes more, and gives
people a way of getting off the hook when they are guilty of so much yet think themselves
innocent.

So saying sin is not meeting a mark or falling short of a standard, is the world of measuring
things by covering all eventualities, which God does not do. It is for us to work out the details.

It is the blatant issues God cares about, there are always fringe issues that are irrelevant.
But a legalist will focus on the smallest details while missing the obvious failure like loving
people from the heart. So sin defined as God does through scripture is fine by me, no more
no less.

 

[gb9]

peter, I say this to you with all respect and seriousness , this is very dangerous thinking. re-defining words and labeling things as "fringe" and " irrelevant " Is playing with hellfire.

Jesus said every hair on your head is numbered , and not a jot or tittle will pass away. there are no fringe, irrelevant things with God.

I strongly urge you to do some research on the word sin and it's meaning. and accept, without re-defining the results of that search.

 

[PeterJens]

peter, I say this to you with all respect and seriousness , this is very dangerous thinking. re-defining words and labeling things as "fringe" and " irrelevant " Is playing with hellfire.

Jesus said every hair on your head is numbered , and not a jot or tittle will pass away. there are no fringe, irrelevant things with God.

I strongly urge you to do some research on the word sin and it's meaning. and accept, without re-defining the results of that search.

gb9 - You must have a legalistic background.

Do you know whether anger is a sin?
Do you know whether fear is a sin?

Now I walk in a room and jump. Oh I have sinned or have I just reacted to
a fright? Now a legalist would say, fear is a sin so therefore you have sinned
by jumping.

Now fear is not a sin, but worry destroys the soul. And out of worry comes
possessiveness which leads to covetousness, which is sinful behaviour.

Now what is more important, to trust God in all things and not worry, or feel
condemned because you have let the chain of emotions grow and give birth
to covetousness.

I would concentrate on doing and trusting and you will find sin goes away.

So please do not miss-construe my words. It is the heart and purifying this,
what motivates one and one finds joy unto the Lord doing His will.

David sinned with Bathsheba because he should have been fighting with his
men and not having so much time off, kicking his heels. So much is interlinked,
because we focus on the final steps and not the love that should be driving
everything.

 

[resurrection33]

But I have been told it isn't really blue but colorless.

At sunset it is pink with blue clouds.
.I drew a picture in my i1st grade and told I should draw blue skies and white clouds by the teacher. It made me very sad.

I am no physicist, so I guess I don't know exactly what color the sky is. Particles in the air reflect the various frequencies of light rays, and somehow our brain reads what the eye is showing it and tells us the sky is blue. It's like matter - we were taught as kids that matter is just electrons spinnng around neutrons and protons really fast. Nowadays, I guess there are even smaller things than that.

 

[resurrection33]

Can you define which law you refer too, eG only knows of the law of MOsES apparentkg,,,,,

If you’ll forgive me, when asked that question, I like to answer with a quote from Jesus:

You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.' Luke 18:20 RSV

 

[resurrection33]

​Keep thinking that. If this were true. I would have no need or desire to repent here on earth, I would just eat drink and be merry..

No, because sin brings suffering into our lives. Sooner or later you would (or will) get tired of that. It can be quite severe.

 

[resurrection33]

No. The law gave us the standard we must live, if we do not live that standard, What must take place for us to be forgiven (Sacrifice of an innocent)

The law should every day lead us to Christ, Not tell us we are righteous people and doing good..

I'm just saying that when we obey the Lord's commandments, our lives are a whole lot more pleasant than when we don't. Praise God.

 

[Depleted]

Sorry, we can't argue tonight. I have run out of rotten tomatoes.

Want some of mine? I got extras.

 

[Depleted]

No we don't have to argue, but we can speak to each other with respect and love, we can listen and pray and allow room for God to tell us His truth.

but...but but but, I have extra rotten tomatoes.

 

[resurrection33]

but...but but but, I have extra rotten tomatoes.

Eggs work better but don't throw any at Ariel82.

 

[Depleted]

3 hours is NOT enough sleep but you cold after giving my daughter all my warm weather things; extra sleeping bag, scarf, mittens. Gave the dog 2 scarves.,,,brrr why is it so cold?

3:25 am still too early to start a fire, maybe 2 more hours?

Because you decided to go camping OUTSIDE in NC in EARLY April?

I told you how good indoor plumbing is. So is "indoors."

(Camping is like golf to me. I get people like both, but can never get why. lol)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, because sin brings suffering into our lives. Sooner or later you would (or will) get tired of that. It can be quite severe.

This is true, For non believers as well as believers.

A believer also has to deal with chastening from God.. so it is even more painfull

However, They will not lose salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm just saying that when we obey the Lord's commandments, our lives are a whole lot more pleasant than when we don't. Praise God.

I agree,

But we do not find out how by the law.. We find out how by setting our minds on the things of God, and not on ourselves (love or the first two commands)

 

[Depleted]

Can you define which law you refer too, eG only knows of the law of MOsES apparentkg,,,,,

Sisterly advice.

I get this. One of the kids you were camping with got sick, with diarrhea even. (Not the most pleasant thing to deal with.) You're cold, tired, and weary. Add to that you're weary of the arguers on here constantly arguing. So a little snark slipped out.

But what is happening here by now is the sides have their backs to the wall, won't give up their pet theories, and love to argue. Mostly, they love to argue. And it's a repeated argument. It is the only thing they talk about -- post after post, often making the posts 20+ pages because they just have to get in the last word. They even start new posts to get in that last word, which then makes that post another 20+ pager.

This leaves you but so many choices. Do you really want to keep pounding your head against the wall? It's fraying your nerves, not theirs! This is their idea of a good time.

(Also why I put them on ignore, or simply ignore them.)

 

[Grandpa]

How can you say the law is antigospel and the fruit of the gospel in one post and expect that to make sense?

I don't believe the law is anti gospel..

Yes it leads one to Christ, yes you follow God's spiritual law after being saved, yes putting the cart before the horse is works salvation.....

But how do you then make the leap to say the law is anti gospel?

If you said works salvation is anti gospel, okay I agree.

If you said people who believe the law can save them are deluded, then I would agree.

But to call God's holy laws, anti gospel, no that is a lie.

God's laws are holy and good even if corrupt men twist and misuse them to condemn and judge people falsely.

Perhaps you could clarify your meaning, because I find it hard to believe you would say that. So I must be misunderstanding something.

Yes, isn't it strange?

Gods Holy and Perfect Law, if followed by our own understanding and strength, is anti-gospel.

The Gospel is about life and blessing. Good News.


The Letter of the Law is about condemnation and death. At first it doesn't seem like it is. It seems like it is perfect instruction for us to be pleasing to God and to people around us. But whenever we look to it and try to obey it in our own 'wisdom' and understanding we, as Christians, are failing to do what got us here in the first place. And that is, rely on the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
[FONT=&quot]5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


While the law, itself, is anti-gospel the intent of the law is also the fruit of the gospel. The intent of the law is to mandate Love like God Loves. The fruit of the gospel is this love that God Himself grows inside of us when we come to Him.

The Law won't produce love. It can't. It has no power. All it can do, if you follow it, is show your failure. Or worse, your obedience, then you think you are righteous by your own strength and understanding. And probably condemn others for not being as righteous as you.

Those who rely on the Lord Jesus Christ can't condemn others. It would be the height of hypocrisy. All we can do is point out that everyone needs the Lord. And those who think they don't are condemned already...

I can expound on all of this if there is anything I'm not explaining well. (probably)[/FONT]