Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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To that I would ask "what sin?"

God said He remembers or sins "no more" (Hebrews 10:17)

We have been cleansed from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

We have been forgiven all our sins (Colossians 2:13)

God does not count sin against us (Romans 4:8)

We are without blemish and free from all accusation (Colossians 1:22)

There is no condemnation left for us (Romans 8:1)

We have been justified from all things (Acts 13:38-39)

Our sins have been paid in full. Once, for all time, no repeat needed. Period. (Romans 5:18)
you have taken all of these scriptures out of context. None of these scriptures suggest that your "future" sins are cleansed before you commit them.

why did God judge Ananias for lying to the Holy Ghost? especially if "God didn't remember the lie before he told the lie"



Acts 5:3-5 (KJV)
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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And he was followed by Jews. And no one can say non-Jews were not counted in that number of followers. Or in that number attending the sermon on the mount or his other public open air teachings.
Are you aware that there was a middle wall of partition in time past between Jews and gentiles? (Ephesians 2:14)?

If you read Acts 10, Peter told Cornelius it was against the Law for Jews to be associated with gentiles, Acts 11:1 had Jews criticizing Peter for going into Cornlelius house and eating with them.

Given all these scriptural information, you still want to read into the passage and infer that there were "non-Jews were not counted in that number of followers. Or in that number attending the sermon on the mount or his other public open air teachings"?

How reasonable do you think holding that doctrine is?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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you have taken all of these scriptures out of context. None of these scriptures suggest that your "future" sins are cleansed before you commit them.

why did God judge Ananias for lying to the Holy Ghost? especially if "God didn't remember the lie before he told the lie"


Acts 5:3-5 (KJV)
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Good point about A and S, that Acts account is problematic for people who believed the Body of Christ began at Pentecost. Would be curious how he will address that.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It does in the matter of the God of our bible telling us he predestined all things according to his will and plan. Yes, it does mean predestination.

Jesus healed gentiles before his crucifixion.
Given God tells us all things are predestined according to his will. If what you claim were true God did it. It was his plan, according to his will that the Jews would reject him.
You are not addressing my point. Just because God foresaw it, it does not mean everything that happened in the 4 gospels was redundant.

As I said, Israel must be left without excuse, Jesus must be presented to Israel and the latter must be given a choice whether to accept or reject him. As it turns out, they choose to reject him, hence leading to their fall.

Otherwise what Paul would later state in Romans 9 to 11 will make no sense.
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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It does in the matter of the God of our bible telling us he predestined all things according to his will and plan. Yes, it does mean predestination.
Is God's will always done?
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
yet men and women die lost everyday
 

Infinite_Ark

Active member
Sep 19, 2020
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Are you aware that there was a middle wall of partition in time past between Jews and gentiles? (Ephesians 2:14)?

If you read Acts 10, Peter told Cornelius it was against the Law for Jews to be associated with gentiles, Acts 11:1 had Jews criticizing Peter for going into Cornlelius house and eating with them.

Given all these scriptural information, you still want to read into the passage and infer that there were "non-Jews were not counted in that number of followers. Or in that number attending the sermon on the mount or his other public open air teachings"?

How reasonable do you think holding that doctrine is?
I think your opposition to non-Jews is to be left between you and God. You seem very dedicated to your thought form.

I think you might also want to consider there are people visiting this site who look to you all for two examples. How Christians comport themselves in a community dedicated to their faith. And to answer is there a difference between reading scripture and living the message behind the writing on the page.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I think your opposition to non-Jews is to be left between you and God. You seem very dedicated to your thought form.

I think you might also want to consider there are people visiting this site who look to you all for two examples. How Christians comport themselves in a community dedicated to their faith. And to answer is there a difference between reading scripture and living the message behind the writing on the page.
I am interested in understanding how others form their doctrine. I am aware that it is rare for people to change their doctrine just by interacting with strangers in forums like this.

Also how they understand scripture, is it based in literal reading or trying to read into scripture.

No worries, I believe all of us have the right to our opinion, I am just curious how different people justify different opinions about scripture.

Cheers
 
Nov 1, 2020
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really?

was a snap for me. now the growth has been more difficult to be sure

you should know though, that the term 'easy believism' does not refer to accepting Christ. it has to do with no 'proof' of believing in Christ other than mouth service. so, nothing to do with your personal struggle

I am sure you will not agree though :giggle:
You have no idea what my personal struggle was. I find a lot of people are way too lax in their personal testimony. There’s no possible way that people just believe. The Bible says that people press into the kingdom. Now it is a free gift. And all I did was receive it. But there was a process. First of all, conviction. I heard God speak to my heart concerning sin, judgement, and accountability. Second, contrition. I had too see that there was nothing good in me and I was completely bankrupt. It took me completely emptying myself of all form of self righteousness. The only way I knew to do that, was through trying to gain heaven apart from grace. When I came to the end of myself, I realized 3 things: I was lost and helpless, I needed God to save me, and I believed Jesus not only could but would. I realized all three of these things while I was reading romans 4 one day. Then a passage from Galatians two hit me that said if righteousness come by the law, Christ is dead in vain. You mentioned it was a “snap” for you. There’s never any indication in scripture that salvation is just a “snap”. Many great men of God, Wesley, Whitfield, spurgeon, hodge, all had internal struggle over their salvation as did I. I’m not judging your testimony. If you’re comfortable with it then fine. But my bible says that we are supposed to make our calling and election sure. It’s better to be sure here, than to presume wrong and be eternally lost. Not trying to hinder you, trying to help. Hope you got something out of this. God bless
 
Nov 1, 2020
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There is great concern in my heart and a lot of heaviness over what is being taught in churches and over the internet. Not everyone has the same experience of grace that I had. I understand that. And I do believe that salvation is simple and is a free gift. But so many people are claiming to have been saved, and live like hell. I’ve had personal struggles, deep struggle even since I’ve been saved. But, the difference is this: repentance and Godly sorrow. Repentance may not be the root of salvation, but always is the fruit of salvation. Repentance cannot save. Faith in Christ finish work saves. But you’ll never get to faith in Christ without personal struggle and completely abandoning any attempt to gain heaven besides trusting him. People press into the kingdom. I can back that up with scripture. Even the greatest of believers still willingly commit sin. I had a personal struggle with alcohol and lust. I finally got delivered from both, praise the lord. But feeling bad about your sin to the point that you ask God to help you turn from it is the evidence Christ lives in you. Easy believism and quick prayerism are the Trojan horses that let satan into many pulpits today. And any minister that won’t preach holiness is screaming to high heaven that Christ has never made him holy. Be careful. John tells us to try the spirits. And check me out if you don’t believe me. By all means, I’m no spiritual authority. I just know what happened to me and what God revealed to me through his word.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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you have taken all of these scriptures out of context. None of these scriptures suggest that your "future" sins are cleansed before you commit them.

Then we are all doomed.

The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. The Bible says Jesus made a once-for-all payment for sins, and it will NEVER be repeated. Either that payment was good for every sin - past, present, and future - or we have NO HOPE. Jesus is not coming back to shed blood for the cleansing of future sins.

You do realize ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood for them, right? And what happens to those Christians who commit sins and die before asking for forgiveness?

And please show me how the verses I quoted were taken out of context. Not simply based on your opinion.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Then we are all doomed.

The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. The Bible says Jesus made a once-for-all payment for sins, and it will NEVER be repeated. Either that payment was good for every sin - past, present, and future - or we have NO HOPE. Jesus is not coming back to shed blood for the cleansing of future sins.

You do realize ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood for them, right? And what happens to those Christians who commit sins and die before asking for forgiveness?

And please show me how the verses I quoted were taken out of context. Not simply based on your opinion.
What are your views regarding Ananias and sapphira in acts 5?
 
L

lenna

Guest
You have no idea what my personal struggle was. I find a lot of people are way too lax in their personal testimony. There’s no possible way that people just believe. The Bible says that people press into the kingdom. Now it is a free gift. And all I did was receive it. But there was a process. First of all, conviction. I heard God speak to my heart concerning sin, judgement, and accountability. Second, contrition. I had too see that there was nothing good in me and I was completely bankrupt. It took me completely emptying myself of all form of self righteousness. The only way I knew to do that, was through trying to gain heaven apart from grace. When I came to the end of myself, I realized 3 things: I was lost and helpless, I needed God to save me, and I believed Jesus not only could but would. I realized all three of these things while I was reading romans 4 one day. Then a passage from Galatians two hit me that said if righteousness come by the law, Christ is dead in vain. You mentioned it was a “snap” for you. There’s never any indication in scripture that salvation is just a “snap”. Many great men of God, Wesley, Whitfield, spurgeon, hodge, all had internal struggle over their salvation as did I. I’m not judging your testimony. If you’re comfortable with it then fine. But my bible says that we are supposed to make our calling and election sure. It’s better to be sure here, than to presume wrong and be eternally lost. Not trying to hinder you, trying to help. Hope you got something out of this. God bless
your personal struggle is exactly YOUR personal struggle. this does not create doctrine and neither does my experience

I am sorry but I do not read big chunks of type with no paragraphs :(
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
245
71
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[QUOTE="Budman, post: 4411488,

You do realize ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood for them, right? And what happens to those Christians who commit sins and die before asking for
OF course I realize all my sin was in the future when Jesus died on the cross..........what's that have to do with it?

If your doctrine is true why does anyone need to be born again? Wouldn't they have regeneration at the time of birth?

So now we are preaching that nobody is born in need of redemption?
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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Then we are all doomed.

The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. The Bible says Jesus made a once-for-all payment for sins, and it will NEVER be repeated. Either that payment was good for every sin - past, present, and future - or we have NO HOPE. Jesus is not coming back to shed blood for the cleansing of future sins.

You do realize ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood for them, right? And what happens to those Christians who commit sins and die before asking for forgiveness?

And please show me how the verses I quoted were taken out of context. Not simply based on your opinion.
I noticed you didn't address ananias and sapphire being judged for lying to the Holy Ghost.........how could they have lied if their lie was forgiven before they told it.

If their lying was forgiven wasn't God wrong for killing them?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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See my above post on 1 John.

Again, I ask: Have all of our sins been forgiven or not? Are we completely cleansed, or not? Does God remember our sins, or not? Are we completely forgiven now, for forever, or not?
Its not My place to decide who’s forgiven or yours it is Jesus place to decide that the one appointed the eternal
Judge of mankind. And this is his judgement pertaining to forgiveness

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

according to Jesus the lord it depends on whether we believe his gospel

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel teaches this

“Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s about believing that

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s where forgiveness is found, the new covenant has words as well as blood. That makes a covenant.


Does this sentence from Paul’s letter

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭

exclude Paul’s Warning and teaching about repentance in the same letter ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1, 3-7‬ ‭

When Jesus does for our sins , it doesn’t erase the word of God it made it eternal
And valid forever so those who are merciful will receive mercy when they do this including you and I

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

want to go there believing what he said because that’s what he will stick to the gospel he sent out into the world for a witness until the end .

we’re supposed to learn from the one who have his life for us , not make his blood separate from his covenant law.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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You are not addressing my point. Just because God foresaw it, it does not mean everything that happened in the 4 gospels was redundant.

As I said, Israel must be left without excuse, Jesus must be presented to Israel and the latter must be given a choice whether to accept or reject him. As it turns out, they choose to reject him, hence leading to their fall.

Otherwise what Paul would later state in Romans 9 to 11 will make no sense.
Is God sovereign?
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
245
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Yes that is suppose to be true. It is all according to predestination by God, as some contend.
what do you mean by "suppose to be true"????

are you saying that God created men and women and predestined them to go to Hell?

if so, lets think about that.......
God says that it is not his will that any perish (2peter 3:9)

yet you say he creates men who are predestined to go to Hell.....

so your doctrine calls God a liar????? if God predestined some men to go to hell, then it would have to be his will for them to perish. NO?
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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Yes God is sovereign but God will not contradict his word

Jesus made sure that the prophecied word came to pass

Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
.......for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.