Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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Turning or repenting from sin would be a work thus salvation by works if its necessary for salvation.
You got to be kidding me, surely you don't believe this

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:30 KJV

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 2:16 KJV

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:19 KJV
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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You got to be kidding me, surely you don't believe this

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:30 KJV

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 2:16 KJV

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:19 KJV
1) Change your mind , break frame from the current set of proppersitions your holding, step back reconsider .
2) Change your mind , break frame from the current set of proppersitions your holding, step back reconsider .
3)Change your mind , break frame from the current set of proppersitions your holding, step back reconsider .
 
L

lenna

Guest
I can’t help that you can’t maintain attention to a few sentences. I said nothing about deriving a doctrine from experience. If you’ll take 30 more seconds to read what I said.
LOL!

always with the ad hominem, attacks
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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1) Change your mind , break frame from the current set of proppersitions your holding, step back reconsider .
2) Change your mind , break frame from the current set of proppersitions your holding, step back reconsider .
3)Change your mind , break frame from the current set of proppersitions your holding, step back reconsider .
Do you not believe a drunkard needs to repent and turn from alcohol?

Do you not believe that a drug head needs to turn from drugs or is that also to much work?

Do you not believe a homosexual has to repent and turn from that wicked lifestyle or is that to much work?

Anybody with one eyeball and half a brain would say yes,after reading the Bible, but unfortunately this is were we are at in America with the church today that is loose as a goose and liberal as the day is long. Cant tell the church from the world anymore and it is because of liberal nonsense like this!!!

Wake up and pray through church!!! Stop looking for excuses to sin and sanctify yourself and the very God of peace shall sanctify you wholly

BTW i have considered....I counted the cost a long time ago...

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 6-8
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
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Do you not believe a drunkard needs to repent and turn from alcohol?

Do you not believe that a drug head needs to turn from drugs or is that also to much work?

Do you not believe a homosexual has to repent and turn from that wicked lifestyle or is that to much work?

Anybody with one eyeball and half a brain would say yes,after reading the Bible, but unfortunately this is were we are at in America with the church today that is loose as a goose and liberal as the day is long. Cant tell the church from the world anymore and it is because of liberal nonsense like this!!!

Wake up and pray through church!!! Stop looking for excuses to sin and sanctify yourself and the very God of peace shall sanctify you wholly

BTW i have considered....I counted the cost a long time ago...

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 6-8
Do you know what false Gospel Paul is referring to ? Faith +
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
You got to be kidding me, surely you don't believe this

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:30 KJV

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 2:16 KJV

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:19 KJV
Are your sins only blotted out when the Lord returns?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
Do you not believe a drunkard needs to repent and turn from alcohol?

Do you not believe that a drug head needs to turn from drugs or is that also to much work?

Do you not believe a homosexual has to repent and turn from that wicked lifestyle or is that to much work?

Anybody with one eyeball and half a brain would say yes,after reading the Bible, but unfortunately this is were we are at in America with the church today that is loose as a goose and liberal as the day is long. Cant tell the church from the world anymore and it is because of liberal nonsense like this!!!

Wake up and pray through church!!! Stop looking for excuses to sin and sanctify yourself and the very God of peace shall sanctify you wholly

BTW i have considered....I counted the cost a long time ago...

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 6-8
By turning from those things you state ,whilst good to do so ..I think even atheists realise that . My point is if you are doing those things to be saved, that's salvation by works .
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
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And Mathew 7 . Again its the old testament and its about false prophets .
Hi! Matthew 7 does warn against false prophets.
Matt 7:15-17

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
KJV
But the rest of the chapter has other teachings - all of which had the purpose of explaining the gospel to people.
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
245
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By turning from those things you state ,whilst good to do so ..I think even atheists realise that . My point is if you are doing those things to be saved, that's salvation by works .

You said:
"Turning or repenting from sin would be a work thus salvation by works if its necessary for salvation"

Does a bird fly to become a bird or because he is a bird?

Do fish swim to become a fish or because they are fish?

...
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:1 KJV


I guess thats considered working? Something we should DO!!!

We do that, not trying to work to be a Christian but because we are a christian

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
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You said:
"Turning or repenting from sin would be a work thus salvation by works if its necessary for salvation"


Does a bird fly to become a bird or because he is a bird?

Do fish swim to become a fish or because they are fish?

... let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:1 KJV


I guess thats considered working? Something we should DO!!!

We do that, not trying to work to be a Christian but because we are a christian

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
Where have I said not sinning is not a good thing. My point is if your are seeking to stop sinning in order to be saved or stay saved . This would be works salvation which is bad .
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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Sorry you have been answer this question

It seem you believe salvation don't need fellowship with God. Am I correct?

It seem you believe a person may have broken fellowship with god but save.

I may make wrong conclusion, but the way you say, it seem you may have broken fellowship with God but save. Am I correct?

Do you believe broken fellowship with god same as no fellowship ?
Sorry for the delay in reply.

A break in fellowship with God, due to sin or walking in darkness unknowingly (ie,...walking not according to the precepts or ordinances), has NOTHING to do with ones salvation, that is assured. However if one is out of fellowship with God, one must get right with God and walk in the TRUTH. Everything in Scripture is related to the TRUTH of God.

1) We must believe the Truth.
2) We can only worship in Spirit and Truth.
3) God's love is related to Truth.
4) Jesus Christ is the embodiment of Truth.
 

awelight

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Aug 10, 2020
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Broken fellowship between believers is certainly a possibility, but not between God and His children.

You wrote:



You are placing your own interpretations into God's word. If what you say is true, man can NEVER have fellowship with God. Or might - but only briefly during the day, or the course of a lifetime.

The Bible says that if you know to do good but do not do it - it is sin. Do you watch movies? Go to an amusement park? Read secular novels? Listen to secular music? Do you do any number of things when your time could be better spent reading the Bible or witnessing to the lost?

If so, you are SINNING. And thus, by your reasoning, be out of fellowship with God. So, how many times a day do you have a sinful thought, or commit a sinful act? 10? 30? 50? 100 times? Thus, according to you, the average Christian must bounce in and out of fellowship with God like a yo-yo throughout the day.

But here's the main reason why we can never be out of fellowship with God:

Ready?

Christians have ZERO sins attributed to them because the shed blood of Jesus cleansed us from ALL unrighteousness. It's the very reason believes are called "holy", "perfect", and "righteous" in scripture. We have the very righteousness of Jesus, as He has taken all sin from us. Sin separates us from God? Yes, indeed. But since we have no sins reckoned to our account, there is NOTHING that separates us from God.
While I do not disagree, that if Christ's righteousness is imputed to ones account, then that ones sins are blotted out and God will not remember them any more. This speaks to ones state before God (Positional Sanctification), and will be Conditional in Glory, but should not be confused with ones present Condition (In Time).

We indeed do go in and out of fellowship with God. Or as some have expressed it, we constantly go from the valley to the mountain top and back again. John spoke to this:

1Jn 1:5-10 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

While many commentators believe John is referring to an unsaved person herein, I disagree. Note the number of plural and inclusive pronouns used by John (In red). According to chapter 2, he was writing these things to keep us from sinning and helping us to realize that one can fall from fellowship with God and fellow believers. The greek word herein translated "cleanseth" is a present. active. subjunctive verb. It means, there is an ongoing cleansing, present tense. However, since it is in the "subjunctive" mood, it is a possibility, depending on the state of the one being referred to. This verb proves there is a continuous washing of our sins in time, because our "Conditional" state is still improving in righteousness. We move from a beginning righteousness, which is imparted to believers when they first believe, to a righteousness that is more mature as we grow in grace and knowledge. When one reads in the Bible, that we are referred to as "Saints" (or Holy), "perfect" or "Righteous", this primarily speaks to our Position in Christ and to a much lesser extent to our Condition. Since our "POSITION" is assured, then calling us Saints or Holy ones, can easily be understood; even if our present Condition is far short of true Holiness.
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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While I do not disagree, that if Christ's righteousness is imputed to ones account, then that ones sins are blotted out and God will not remember them any more. This speaks to ones state before God (Positional Sanctification), and will be Conditional in Glory, but should not be confused with ones present Condition (In Time).

We indeed do go in and out of fellowship with God. Or as some have expressed it, we constantly go from the valley to the mountain top and back again. John spoke to this:

1Jn 1:5-10 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

While many commentators believe John is referring to an unsaved person herein, I disagree. Note the number of plural and inclusive pronouns used by John (In red). According to chapter 2, he was writing these things to keep us from sinning and helping us to realize that one can fall from fellowship with God and fellow believers. The greek word herein translated "cleanseth" is a present. active. subjunctive verb. It means, there is an ongoing cleansing, present tense. However, since it is in the "subjunctive" mood, it is a possibility, depending on the state of the one being referred to. This verb proves there is a continuous washing of our sins in time, because our "Conditional" state is still improving in righteousness. We move from a beginning righteousness, which is imparted to believers when they first believe, to a righteousness that is more mature as we grow in grace and knowledge. When one reads in the Bible, that we are referred to as "Saints" (or Holy), "perfect" or "Righteous", this primarily speaks to our Position in Christ and to a much lesser extent to our Condition. Since our "POSITION" is assured, then calling us Saints or Holy ones, can easily be understood; even if our present Condition is far short of true Holiness.
A correction needs to be made here. I stated that the verb translated "cleanseth" from 1 John 1:7, was a present tense verb, when I should have said it was an aorist tense verb. Thus, "cleansing" primarily speaks to a past event with the possibility of ongoing action.

Sorry about that.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Your right christians don't "lose" salvation......but they can leave their salvation and turn like a hog to the mire
The Bible says nothing in all creation can snatch us out of the hand of Jesus or the Father. That includes us as created beings. For us to be able to give back the gift of salvation, it would requires the giver (God) to be willing to receive it back - He is not. Thus, we can't "leave" or "give it back." There isn't a single example in the Bible that shows a born again believer losing their salvation for any reason whatsoever.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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yea that’s what anyone who sins is experiencing satans will in thier mind and heart .

my theology ? Um mine comes from what Jesus and his apostles taught and said to believe in the New Testament scriptures , beginning with the word of the Lord , and never ever to exclude it from my thoughts . if they have a cereal box like that , then .....yes I do brother 😀 “Kingdom Crunchies” let’s examine the back of the box

this sets up context

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:32-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now this is what happened sin comes because of satans will in a person heart and mind in this case greed it doesn’t mean they were possessed by a demon and had no control or anything that’s what sin is obeying the will of Satan when he whispers it to us rather than obeying what God has said to us .

“But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?

thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much?

And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭5:1-11‬ ‭

except for the modern grave version of the church , they don’t fear things like that .

They didn’t have to go sell their possessions and give it to the apostles they were never commanded as a rule to do so . the church was doing it because of Jesus teachings about mercy and truth and caring for one another and they were flourishing .

they went and did it , and then Satan spoke from greed in their hearts ( because that’s what he does ) and they agreed together to lie about how much they had received as God was just beginning to move in the church powerfully .

It’s meant as a warning to people who think it’s ok to sin now because of Christ’s sacrifice that’s not how it is sin is always going to lead to death and it’s a matter of who a believer chooses to serve whether sin through temptations or God through Christ and his gospel .

just like Paul taught receiving the spirit is one thing but following or rejecting it it is another.

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18, 21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

serving sin shows who we belong to , repenting and believing the gospel so he can change our will from sin to righteousness shows who we belong to


( fda warning contents of cereal within box may not be your flavor ) 😅
What a convoluted mess that was.

Yet again, the text says Satan FILLED THEIR HEARTS. Not "tempted" not "tried" but FILLED. Since believers are filled with the Holy Spirit, it would require the Spirit to "step aside" and allow this filling from Satan. Spoiler alert: The Holy Spirit would never allow that.

Ananias and Sapphira were con artists - not born again believers. They wanted the praise, honor, and perhaps an exalted position that Barnabas received when he sold some property and gave the money to the Apostles. It says they "agreed together to test the Spirit." They conspired to deceive and their hearts were filled by Satan to commit the act. They didn't even sell property, the scriptures say they only sold a "possession" and kept back part of the money.

After those two deceivers died, the Bible says other unbelievers dared not to join them! Others were obviously planning to infiltrate as Ananias and Sapphira had attempted to do. They were wolves in sheep's clothing, but the plan ended badly for them. So much so, others dared not try the same thing.

If even a single lie will send someone to hell, then by your reasoning, God will kill you. You just can't seem to grasp the fact that for believers, the sin issue is FINISHED! FULL PAYMENT has been made. There isn't a single sin left in a believer's account. If we still have any sinned charged to us, the Bible would not call us "Holy", "Righteous", or "Saints". And if even a single sin hasn't already been paid for, we are hopelessly lost. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission. And Jesus is NOT coming back to shed any more blood.

You are teaching that unless a believer confesses a sin, they are in danger, not only of death, but of damnation. If that is not true, I'll come right out and ask: If a believer dies with unconfessed sin, do they still go to heaven?

It's your ilk that keeps Christians in anxiety and fear. You would rather have believers serving God, not out of love and gratitude because of His amazing gift of salvation through grace, but out of constant terror He will crush them if/when they transgress.

It's sickening.

And I take back the cereal box analogy. It's looks more and more like you get your theology from a Cracker Jack box.
 

AlmondJoy

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
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The Bible says nothing in all creation can snatch us out of the hand of Jesus or the Father. That includes us as created beings. For us to be able to give back the gift of salvation, it would requires the giver (God) to be willing to receive it back - He is not. Thus, we can't "leave" or "give it back." There isn't a single example in the Bible that shows a born again believer losing their salvation for any reason whatsoever.
Anybody with one eyeball and half a brain knows this is not true.

GOD DOSNT FORCE ME TO LOVE HIM

If love dosnt have a choice you can't all it love

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:1 KJV

You guys please don't a
Have a stroke when you read John say EXCEPT YE ABIDE IN ME

THATS SOMETHING I MUST DO!!!

OH NO THAT DREADED WORD DO!!! you mean I have to do something??

This nonsense is why the church today is full of the world..pew setters who want to go to heaven but nobody willing to take up the cross and die daily

Come out from among the world and be separate Saith the Lord.....has the church forgot scriptures such as this

Love not the world neither the things that are in the world if anyman love the world the love of the Father is not in him.1 John 2:15
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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Anybody with one eyeball and half a brain knows this is not true.

GOD DOSNT FORCE ME TO LOVE HIM

If love dosnt have a choice you can't all it love

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:1 KJV

You guys please don't a
Have a stroke when you read John say EXCEPT YE ABIDE IN ME

THATS SOMETHING I MUST DO!!!

OH NO THAT DREADED WORD DO!!! you mean I have to do something??

This nonsense is why the church today is full of the world..pew setters who want to go to heaven but nobody willing to take up the cross and die daily

Come out from among the world and be separate Saith the Lord.....has the church forgot scriptures such as this

Love not the world neither the things that are in the world if anyman love the world the love of the Father is not in him.1 John 2:15
So, tell me, just how much do you have to do to "prove" you are saved? How many good works?

One a day? Two? Ten?

To abide in Christ means to be joined with Him. That joining is accomplished when one puts their trust in Jesus for salvation. It never ceases to amaze me that those who claim we must "do" things to prove were saved, or to remain saved, will deny they preach a works-based gospel.

The gospel you preach cannot save. It's predicated on your own actions. Your personal "performance." Not on what Christ accomplished and proclaimed is "finished."

You sin every single day. Day in and day out. Thousands of sins a year. And yet place the yoke of bondage on others, to follow you into the ditch.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,130
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Anybody with one eyeball and half a brain knows this is not true.

GOD DOSNT FORCE ME TO LOVE HIM

If love dosnt have a choice you can't all it love
What does this have to do with the post to which you responded?