Losing your salvation

[Ash_JFF]

I have a coworker in her early 50's that believes that you can lose your salvation and you must ask to be saved again and again. I told her that when we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and we cannot be unsaved. She thinks that if we are saved once and nothing we can do can change that then that will give us a 'free pass" to do all kinds of evil. I told her that God changes our hearts when we get saved and that we don't want to do sinful stuff anymore though we may mess up at times.

I also told her that believing that way means that she is saying that God is not powerful enough to save you the first time. She says she is not saying that.

We are born with a sinful nature. Asking to be saved every second of the day will not help if we can lose our salvation. Believing that way puts the salvation part in our hands and we can't save ourselves. Only God can. Jesus died once to bring salvation once. Once saved, know one can pluck us out of God's hands.

I am only a college student so it is hard for her to listen to what I have to say when she has been taught that since she was born and also taught that to her two grown daughters. Her husband also believes that way.

If you guys could help, it would be great if I could get a lot of scripture to back up what I am saying.
I could keep the references with me the next time we talk about it.

Thanks

 

[loveschild]

Sounds like she means we must repent over and over. One isn't saved forever though. All you have to do is keep turning your back on God.

 

[Ash_JFF]

Sounds like she means we must repent over and over. One isn't saved forever though. All you have to do is keep turning your back on God.

Sinning is turning your back on God. But, you can't lose your salvation.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were SEALED IN HIM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT of promise,...

 

[suaso]

See this:

http://christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=7961

The whole thread discusses everything that will likely be repeated here.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I have a coworker in her early 50's that believes that you can lose your salvation and you must ask to be saved again and again. I told her that when we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and we cannot be unsaved. She thinks that if we are saved once and nothing we can do can change that then that will give us a 'free pass" to do all kinds of evil. I told her that God changes our hearts when we get saved and that we don't want to do sinful stuff anymore though we may mess up at times.

I also told her that believing that way means that she is saying that God is not powerful enough to save you the first time. She says she is not saying that.

We are born with a sinful nature. Asking to be saved every second of the day will not help if we can lose our salvation. Believing that way puts the salvation part in our hands and we can't save ourselves. Only God can. Jesus died once to bring salvation once. Once saved, know one can pluck us out of God's hands.

I am only a college student so it is hard for her to listen to what I have to say when she has been taught that since she was born and also taught that to her two grown daughters. Her husband also believes that way.

If you guys could help, it would be great if I could get a lot of scripture to back up what I am saying.
I could keep the references with me the next time we talk about it.

Thanks

you came to the wrong place for help, all you will get in here in confusion, sorry. hang on to your belief, trust Jesus and His works, while He was in the flesh for your salvation, not any price you could have paid to buy your salvation , not enough works you can do to earn your salvation It is a gift from God, through Jesus Christ. no way you can be righteous enough to hold it, unless you plead the Blood and claim The righteousness of the only Begotten, Jesus Christ

you could share with her :

Heb 12:5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.Heb 12:7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?Heb 12:8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.Heb 12:9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?Heb 12:10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.Heb 12:11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.


If we are saved then we will feel and know the chastening hand of our God, the Father, and if we sin after we are saved; He reproves, rebukes and even whips us but does not kick us out of the family, if we walk away from that chastisement, without repenting we lose our fellowship with the Lord our Father but not the relationship, He is still our Father, and has promised that He is able give life everlasting and to keep us!!!!!

 

[watchmen]

I have a coworker in her early 50's that believes that you can lose your salvation and you must ask to be saved again and again. I told her that when we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and we cannot be unsaved. She thinks that if we are saved once and nothing we can do can change that then that will give us a 'free pass" to do all kinds of evil. I told her that God changes our hearts when we get saved and that we don't want to do sinful stuff anymore though we may mess up at times.

I also told her that believing that way means that she is saying that God is not powerful enough to save you the first time. She says she is not saying that.

We are born with a sinful nature. Asking to be saved every second of the day will not help if we can lose our salvation. Believing that way puts the salvation part in our hands and we can't save ourselves. Only God can. Jesus died once to bring salvation once. Once saved, know one can pluck us out of God's hands.

I am only a college student so it is hard for her to listen to what I have to say when she has been taught that since she was born and also taught that to her two grown daughters. Her husband also believes that way.

If you guys could help, it would be great if I could get a lot of scripture to back up what I am saying.
I could keep the references with me the next time we talk about it.

Thanks

There is no scripture to support your belief. To be frank, it is you that has been falsely tasught. The bible tells us that there will be those that get saved and then turn from their salvation. Paul calls this ''falling away''

 

[shad]

Ash_JFF,

I can not emphasize enough how important it is to have grace in our thinking and to have our hearts established in grace / Heb 13:9. If we are saved by grace and we are to grow in grace / 2Pt 3:18, then grace must be pretty important to God and to the believer. Grace has always been undeserved favor from God. The only one that God is unable to give grace to, is a person filled with pride / James 4:6, 1Pt 5:5, but if they humble themselves, God will give them grace. The person that believes they can lose their salvation is someone who has never been built up in the word and Spirit of grace / Acts 20:32, Col 3:16. The word that we preach and speak to one another must be grace, so that the hearer is edified and ministered to / Eph 4:29. There is nothing edifying when you speak and teach things that get people to lose hope in the salvation they received by grace through Christ. That is a form of slander against the finished work of Jesus Christ and the blood that was shed for the remission of sins.

There is a song that goes like this, 'There's nothing more that I can do for Jesus did it all, for we are complete in Him'. Jesus said while he was on the cross having taken all our sins upon His body, 'It is finished' / John 19:30. When we believed we were placed in Christ, hid with Christ in God and we are complete in Him / Col 2:10, 3:3, Eph 2:13. This is our position in Christ, which is (locative of sphere) meaning that we can not be removed from a set position that has been sealed / Eph 1:13,14, 4:30. In this position we have not been given a spirit of fear but a spirit of power, of love and a sound mind / 2Tim 1:7.

Fear is what dominates the mind and emotions of those that believe their salvation can be lost. Some project an attitude of holiness but do not understand the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Those that teach this continue to put others in bondage again to fear / Rom 8:15, Heb 2:15 and they cause division and strife because they live contrary to what the grace of God teaches us / Titus 2:11,12. The strength of sin is in the law / 1Cor 15:56, so the law has no power to teach us how to live / Gal 3:24, but the grace of God does. If we lived by the law and we failed the law, the law would condemn us as transgressors / James 2:9,10. But we are not under the law but under grace / Rom 6:14, so if sin abounds grace abounds much more toward us to keep us from continuing in sin / Rom 5:20,21, Rom 6:15.

We are in Christ (86 times in the book of Ephesians) and because of being placed their by God through grace there is no condemnation / Rom 8:1. In this verse the last part was added in the KJV because of verse 4 in Rom 8, but the original manuscripts do not include that. The last part of that verse has been used by many to put a condition upon 'no condemnation'. Unfortunately, the KJV translated it incorrectly in this case and should have left it off and could have translated Rom 8:1 in just two words, NO CONDEMNATION, because it is a continuation of chapter 7. However, if you understand your position in Christ you have no problem with the KJV even as it is written, because there is no conditional clause in that verse except being in Christ.

 

[watchmen]

Ash, be careful of ravenous wolf in sheeps clothing. It is people like Shad that teach the demonic OSAS doctrine that causes the simple minded to die in their sins. If the blind lead the blind they will both fall in the ditch

 

[shad]

Ash, be careful of ravenous wolf in sheeps clothing. It is people like Shad that teach the demonic OSAS doctrine that causes the simple minded to die in their sins. If the blind lead the blind they will both fall in the ditch

If you could refute any of it you would, but you can't refute grace and truth and if you tried you would be trying to refute the nature of God through the person of His Son. The very thing that filled the life of our Lord Jesus Christ and brought Him here to earth was grace and truth / Jn 1:17. Grace and truth is for the simple / Ps 119:130. The common people heard Him gladly / Mk 12:37 , because he was so full of grace and truth (that covers me).

To teach that you can lose His salvation is to teach that you can lose Christ, who is our salvation / Ps 27:1. But, He has promised that he would leave us of forsake us / Heb 13:5 and that makes it impossible to lose His salvation. Don't you see the grace and truth in our Lord who will never leave us or forsake us? He is faithful who has promised / Heb 10:23, because it is impossible for God to lie / Titus 1:2. To say that those who belong to God and have been purchased with the blood of the Lamb can lose His salvation is to say that the Lord is not able to save to the uttermost and that He can not be trusted / Heb 7:25. Your doctrine is empty and void of grace and truth and provides no hope of salvation / Lam 3:26, 1Thes 5:8.

 

[watchmen]

If you could refute any of it you would, but you can't refute grace and truth.

I have refuted the OSAS doctrine 100 time over in these forum with scripture, you could care less what the truth is, all you care about is your precious false doctrine. If you could see how many people lives are ruined by believing this demonic doctrine I wonder if you would even be swayed. I doubt it.

 

[watchmen]

If you could refute any of it you would, but you can't refute grace and truth and if you tried you would be trying to refute the nature of God through the person of His Son. The very thing that filled the life of our Lord Jesus Christ and brought Him here to earth was grace and truth / Jn 1:17. Grace and truth is for the simple / Ps 119:130. The common people heard Him gladly / Mk 12:37 , because he was so full of grace and truth (that covers me).

To teach that you can lose His salvation is to teach that you can lose Christ, who is our salvation / Ps 27:1. But, He has promised that he would leave us of forsake us / Heb 13:5 and that makes it impossible to lose His salvation. Don't you see the grace and truth in our Lord who will never leave us or forsake us? He is faithful who has promised / Heb 10:23, because it is impossible for God to lie / Titus 1:2. To say that those who belong to God and have been purchased with the blood of the Lamb can lose His salvation is to say that the Lord is not able to save to the uttermost and that He can not be trusted / Heb 7:25. Your doctrine is empty and void of grace and truth and provides no hope of salvation / Lam 3:26, 1Thes 5:8.

The so called Grace you push is not Biblical Grace but it is Free Grace Theology which is very anti biblical.

Free Grace Theology is the idea:

• That "Faith in Christ" means faith in Christ as Savior, but accepting Christ as Lord is optional.
  • related to which is also the misconception concerning Rev 3:20 - inviting Christ into your life.
• That the faith that is acceptable to God for salvation is a non-application oriented mental assent to ideas.
• That repentance is viewed simply a "change of mind" without necessarily any change of behavior
• That there is not necessarily any correlation between a person's behavior and their salvation status
• That the object of faith is one's own assurance of salvation, and thus one should never doubt or question whether they are saved or not.
• And "Free Grace" theology sees a distinction between the New Testament expressions "entering the kingdom" (being saved) and "inheriting the kingdom"

Many times the Bible warns Christians to not be deceived, indicating that it is possible for you as a Christian to be deceived. Let me give you examples of the kinds of things Christians may be deceived about:

1Cor 6:9,10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Ephesians 5:5,6 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person— such a man is an idolater— has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
James 1:15,16 after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.
James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
1John 3:7,8 Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
​

These are all warnings against what has classically been labeled "Antinomian Theology", which today has evolved into what is called "Free Grace Theology".

 

[shad]

I have refuted the OSAS doctrine 100 time over in these forum with scripture, you could care less what the truth is, all you care about is your precious false doctrine. If you could see how many people lives are ruined by believing this demonic doctrine I wonder if you would even be swayed. I doubt it.

The salvation of God that we are saved by through grace is in the perfect tense, which means that we were saved at a specific point in time when we believed and it has continuous action with no variables. You can't change the perfect tense of the verb no matter what you do, therefore you can't refute that salvation is forever because it was given by grace with no variables, not even personal sin can change it.

What this points to is that the salvation that God provides is just like Him because it came from Him from His very nature. It is immutable and has no variables that can alter its continuous action in the believes life. In 2Cor 13:8 we can do nothing against the truth but for the truth. You can't do a thing against the salvation of God. Even if you could persuade someone that they had lost their salvation, it would only be a lie but it would have no power to change the truth that they still had it and that God never took it from them because He never left them. Every blood bought redeemed sinner rejoices in that truth and if you do not then there is something wrong in you.

 

[watchmen]

The salvation of God that we are saved by through grace is in the perfect tense, which means that we were saved at a specific point in time when we believed and it has continuous action with no variables.

This is nothing more than falswe free grace OSAS rhetoric. It is anti biblical at best demonic at worst.

 

[shad]

The so called Grace you push is not Biblical Grace but it is Free Grace Theology which is very anti biblical.

Free Grace Theology is the idea:

• That "Faith in Christ" means faith in Christ as Savior, but accepting Christ as Lord is optional.
  • related to which is also the misconception concerning Rev 3:20 - inviting Christ into your life.
• That the faith that is acceptable to God for salvation is a non-application oriented mental assent to ideas.
• That repentance is viewed simply a "change of mind" without necessarily any change of behavior
• That there is not necessarily any correlation between a person's behavior and their salvation status
• That the object of faith is one's own assurance of salvation, and thus one should never doubt or question whether they are saved or not.
• And "Free Grace" theology sees a distinction between the New Testament expressions "entering the kingdom" (being saved) and "inheriting the kingdom"

Many times the Bible warns Christians to not be deceived, indicating that it is possible for you as a Christian to be deceived. Let me give you examples of the kinds of things Christians may be deceived about:

1Cor 6:9,10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Ephesians 5:5,6 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person— such a man is an idolater— has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
James 1:15,16 after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.
James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
1John 3:7,8 Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
​

These are all warnings against what has classically been labeled "Antinomian Theology", which today has evolved into what is called "Free Grace Theology".

All you want to do is scare people away from the grace of God. That is why you understand nothing about the grace of God and therefore you do not understand salvation that is by the grace of God. You are afraid of grace and you try to discourage people away from it. The only thing that will deliver people is grace and you don't want them to know that. If you do not understand grace then you do not understand who God is and what he is like. You never talk about grace and never thank God and praise Him for His grace. Eph 1:6 must scare the daylights out of you;

'To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved'.

This verse must turn your stomach with fear and maybe even anger. You have incapacitated yourself from not only receiving grace but from giving it to those that need it. If God put His own grace in your hand you would not know what to do with it. Your heart is a stranger to the grace of God when your heart should be established in it / Heb 13:9. This is your way of thinking. If someone came to you with sin in their life you would not give them grace to restore them, instead you would tell them to repent and if they did not repent you would tell them they would go to hell because they lost salvation. That is how you think and believe in your heart because your heart does not know grace, so you can't give it.

 

[watchmen]

All you want to do is scare people away from the grace of God.

I want people to know the truth of what the grace of God is. The grace of God is the enabling through the infilling of the Holy Spirit to serve God as we should not a free pass to sin.

 

[shad]

This is nothing more than falswe free grace OSAS rhetoric. It is anti biblical at best demonic at worst.

This is in your Bible and you call it false rhetoric because you are too lazy to check it out so you have to bring on your slander that it's from the devil. Be careful what comes from the Spirit and you accuse of being from the devil. I know what this book teaches and what the Spirit teaches and the life that comes from God. I am not the only one on this site that knows these things either.

 

[happynGod]

Just to throw a few words in here. I understand God's grace and I know that watchmen does also.
I am only speaking for myself right now. We have to obey His word. Shad in my opinion only.... I feel that you are saying that just believe and that is all there is to it. Am I wrong on my opinion? like i said, I probably should not be posting right now because of my headache.

 

[shad]

I want people to know the truth of what the grace of God is. The grace of God is the enabling through the infilling of the Holy Spirit to serve God as we should not a free pass to sin.

No one is giving a free pass to sin so knock it off!

 

[shad]

Just to throw a few words in here. I understand God's grace and I know that watchmen does also.
I am only speaking for myself right now. We have to obey His word. Shad in my opinion only.... I feel that you are saying that just believe and that is all there is to it. Am I wrong on my opinion? like i said, I probably should not be posting right now because of my headache.

Before I respond to your statement, please go nurse your headache and get better.

 

[happynGod]

ty.. lol.. but that was a good point I made even with a headache. GBU