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Today there's about 10 misunderstandings of what total depravity really means as few can truly fathom it as it was originally intended. I believe in total depravity, just not the 10 or so misunderstandings of it. Total depravity is not only a Calvinist concept you know. As long as we realise it comes from Augustinian thought, yes the same guy who thought the original sin was Adam and Eve having sex. That guy was a loony. Total depravity to me is as simple as recognising that all are under and born into sin and no one themself can measure up to the righteousness which God requires. But I will not treat people to be more wicked than they really are, or call good evil, as God put some good in every person.
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S
You need to study more of the scriptures instead of relying upon commentaries and church history all the time. They both have their place but they are compliments and not the source of authority that we get from the God's word. One of the first things that the Holy Spirit guides us into is the doctrine of total depravity so that we will learn the importance of depending upon the grace of God and not the arm of the flesh / Jer 17:5-9. There is a big difference between morality and spirituality. I am not going to condemn morality but you can't trust it for salvation, for grace and it has no power to make you spiritually minded. Morality is commendable from human viewpoint, but as far as being accepted by God in relationship to righteousness, it is but vanity. Man is his best state before God is vanity / Ps 39:5. That does not mean that we do not live with a pure heart before God.
There is a boat load of scriptures, old and new testament, that we can put together line upon line and precept upon precept, here a little and there a little, comparing spiritual with spiritual and understand the true condition of man before God. The true condition of man's head, his heart, his hands, his feet, his bowels, his tongue, his ways, his thoughts and imaginations all reveal his depravity and it is all right there in the scriptures. I know the scriptures, I've studied them, have seen them in practice in my life and the life of others, they are true and trustworthy and let God be true and every man a liar, not the spiritual man that is after life and peace but the carnal and natural man that can not discern the things of God. Read Ps 53:1-3
Rom 3:10-12 'As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
There is a boat load of scriptures, old and new testament, that we can put together line upon line and precept upon precept, here a little and there a little, comparing spiritual with spiritual and understand the true condition of man before God. The true condition of man's head, his heart, his hands, his feet, his bowels, his tongue, his ways, his thoughts and imaginations all reveal his depravity and it is all right there in the scriptures. I know the scriptures, I've studied them, have seen them in practice in my life and the life of others, they are true and trustworthy and let God be true and every man a liar, not the spiritual man that is after life and peace but the carnal and natural man that can not discern the things of God. Read Ps 53:1-3
Rom 3:10-12 'As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
S
If those guys like Calvin and all the others, who ever they may be, loved God and studied the word, I commend them. I never put myself under any of them or anything they taught. If they contributed to others and they were blessed by what was taught, I have nothing against that, but they contributed nothing to me. We have the apostle's doctrine that was given to us in the scriptures. They have laid the foundation and we build on that foundation and we should be very careful how we build.
We have every word of God that is inspired and given to us for doctrine, instruction in righteousness, for any correction needed, for edification so that we can be thoroughly furnished unto all good works. It takes the rest of our life to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and live by every word as we worship God in Spirit and truth. I thank God for the supply that comes from every believer whose heart is established in grace and is filled with the Holy Spirit and the love of God. They are the ones that we comprehend the love of God with because they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and have the life of God in them.
We grow together, we fellowship with one another, we pray and forgive one another, we exhort one another and we walk in the light and when a brother fails we give them grace and restore them through mercy and the love of God. We don't think evil, we are patient and kind and are thankful in everything and for everything, because that is the will of God in Christ Jesus. We esteem one another and edify one another and build one another up into Christ. We don't condemn, slander, malign or judge one another. We are not perfect but we go on to perfection because Christ is making us become what He has already made us to be in Him.
We depend on Christ, His grace and mercy, His written and revealed word and the friendship we have in Christ with other believers who we are members one of another, not Calvin or Gertrude or even Tony Soprano for that matter. We are one body hid with Christ in God and sealed until the day of redemption. Isn't it good of God to do all these things for us when we did not deserve a single one of them. I think so and so do others that believe.
We have every word of God that is inspired and given to us for doctrine, instruction in righteousness, for any correction needed, for edification so that we can be thoroughly furnished unto all good works. It takes the rest of our life to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and live by every word as we worship God in Spirit and truth. I thank God for the supply that comes from every believer whose heart is established in grace and is filled with the Holy Spirit and the love of God. They are the ones that we comprehend the love of God with because they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and have the life of God in them.
We grow together, we fellowship with one another, we pray and forgive one another, we exhort one another and we walk in the light and when a brother fails we give them grace and restore them through mercy and the love of God. We don't think evil, we are patient and kind and are thankful in everything and for everything, because that is the will of God in Christ Jesus. We esteem one another and edify one another and build one another up into Christ. We don't condemn, slander, malign or judge one another. We are not perfect but we go on to perfection because Christ is making us become what He has already made us to be in Him.
We depend on Christ, His grace and mercy, His written and revealed word and the friendship we have in Christ with other believers who we are members one of another, not Calvin or Gertrude or even Tony Soprano for that matter. We are one body hid with Christ in God and sealed until the day of redemption. Isn't it good of God to do all these things for us when we did not deserve a single one of them. I think so and so do others that believe.
Im not sure if Im getting this right as I have never studied calvin, cal or any other.
I have always relied on the word and the Holy Spirit.
I mentioned this before, That God Our Father showed us his understanding of both our great abuility to sin, thus Jesus on the cross. He also knew our great abuility to love, thus he trusted his son as an infant to our care.
But what I know I see in myself. I can do good works yet I still recongnise that even in doing good I have to trust in God to keep me from wanting the glory. Not that it is what I look for but one can be seduced easly. Even when I pray I can see a selfish nature trying to overtake me. I believe man is capable of eather good or bad. But I believe that having God Our Father at my right hand is my best hope for success.
I watch people doing great good, yet when I really see, there can be great sin in what they do.
And we all know that what looks bad can often be good.
I believe that is one of the many reasons Jesus said keep your eyes on me. Because with out his love and leading us, we may become so overwhelmed by the sin and evil within the world that we would become discouraged.
With Jesus we can see his great love in all that is, thus becoming stronger in him.
Any way thats my take from the word.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
I have always relied on the word and the Holy Spirit.
I mentioned this before, That God Our Father showed us his understanding of both our great abuility to sin, thus Jesus on the cross. He also knew our great abuility to love, thus he trusted his son as an infant to our care.
But what I know I see in myself. I can do good works yet I still recongnise that even in doing good I have to trust in God to keep me from wanting the glory. Not that it is what I look for but one can be seduced easly. Even when I pray I can see a selfish nature trying to overtake me. I believe man is capable of eather good or bad. But I believe that having God Our Father at my right hand is my best hope for success.
I watch people doing great good, yet when I really see, there can be great sin in what they do.
And we all know that what looks bad can often be good.
I believe that is one of the many reasons Jesus said keep your eyes on me. Because with out his love and leading us, we may become so overwhelmed by the sin and evil within the world that we would become discouraged.
With Jesus we can see his great love in all that is, thus becoming stronger in him.
Any way thats my take from the word.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
C
The Protestant Reformation proposed the "Priesthood of the Believer". It did not ask that we abandon all the study that others have put into scripture. While the most essential things are easy enough to understand, our own conversations prove that ther is much that requires depth of study as well as a willingness to listen to others.
L
Indeed. I pray that those that are new in Christ that come to this site are protected in their hearts and minds from some of the spirits that fly around these forums.
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that He which has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
Amen!
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that He which has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
Amen!
That's the only part that doesn't agree with scripture, or early church belief.
There's one early church writer, and I can't find it now, who wrote about God disowning His children. He did it with many of Israel, don't be mistaken that he can't do it with Christians.
The scripture teaches that disobedient children suffer the same fate as unbelievers.
Although thaddeus and others may all agree with one another and nod there heads that such and such is correct, if you do an honest to God search of early christian beliefs and certain bible passages that too often get ignored, you won't come away with the same impression.
There's one early church writer, and I can't find it now, who wrote about God disowning His children. He did it with many of Israel, don't be mistaken that he can't do it with Christians.
The scripture teaches that disobedient children suffer the same fate as unbelievers.
Although thaddeus and others may all agree with one another and nod there heads that such and such is correct, if you do an honest to God search of early christian beliefs and certain bible passages that too often get ignored, you won't come away with the same impression.