Love

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M

Mulehide

Guest
#21
#21
I'm glad you are trying. It's hard to look past what they did and see the person. Someone I love dearly did something horrendous. While I went through many emotions trying to comprehend what they did and why, overall it has helped to be able to see them and others as someone who is simply lost and hurting and needs God in, or back in, their life...not saying you should experience the same :)
 
E

ed

Guest
#22
#22
Saint said:
it is not the action of jumping in front of the bullet that i'm confused about. Actually, it's not that i'm confused on the subject at all. It's just that i need help to have the mind-set to truely love these people. I know that to not to love them is judgemental and is condemnable (as seen in some of the parables) as well. but i can't seem to move from where i am on this. and i'm not by any means far enough. but regardless, thank you for your post.
Click to expand...
Hi Saint,
The growth of love in your heart is a work done by God. Even Paul said he was not all he should be and our perfection is perfection in love. Let me give you a very gentle warning. Be patient, be very patient. If you remain in a state of anxiety about this it leaves an opening for you to be deceived. Please back of and wait patiently. Your very life could be at risk. You as all of us are God's workmanship. If you try to hurry God along you are being disobedient. The journey of love is a long journey.
Let me be a little severe with you. The love you are talking about seems to have a touch of romanticism. Leave that alone for a while. Love covers a lot of territory. How old are you. What are your responsibilities? Look in your own neighbourhood. Join a group feeding homeless people etc. When love is perfected, fear leaves. How fearful would you be if you yourself were homeless and without an income? Could you fearlessly wander around sleeping under bridges and in parks, hoping to stay dry and hoping it is not too cold because when it is cold you can't sleep,but have to keep moving to stay warm. This is definitely not a challenge for you to go out almost naked in the world. If God wants you to do that then He will organise it
Please be patient.
There must be plenty of ways for you to stretch your faith and grow in Jesus Christ. This will build your trust in Him and your love will naturally increase as you know Him better and better.
love
edwin
 
VW

VW

Banned
#23
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#23
You quoted 1st John, that God is love. Well, the answer about how we are to be changed in this area is also in the same letter. We live in love, because when one lives in love, that one lives in God, and God lives in him. The answer is simple, but difficult. Please bear with me in this, because it is what we have been saved for, and why we are called to fellowship with God through Jesus.

Before Jesus came and endured suffering on the cross to death for us, and was buried for us to be risen to eternal life, for us; we could not know God. No people could actually know Him without His first choosing them. But now we all who are in Christ can know God, personally, closely, deeply, as our Father. We have been born of God, but we have not grown into what we are to be, we have not been changed, perfected, in His nature. His nature. The seed that is in us is His seed, given to us by the Holy Spirit.

John gives us a look at growing into Christ. Little children, young men, and fathers. Little children know that their sins are forgiven, for His name's sake. Our sins are forgiven because we have taken on His name, and for the sake of His name, our sins are forgiven. Young men, because they have overcome the evil one. Young men in Christ have grown in the Spirit, in the living Word of God, and the devil is overcome in their lives. And fathers, because they know Him who has been from the beginning, God the Father.

As we seek to walk in love and thus walk in God, we find that it is not in us to do so, not as we know Jesus walked in love towards us. We do at times, but someone comes to our attention that we just do not love, because of what they are, not because of what they do. I mean, it is not easy to love a murderer, or a child molester, or even to me the most difficult of all to love, the one who thinks only of their self, to the exclusion of all others, and will do anything at all to gain favor. We have the desire, because of the seed that is in us, God's seed, but the nature is not always there.

But as we draw near to God, (which is why Jesus came, to reconcile us back to God,) we see the things in our hearts which keep us from loving as He loves. This is the only place to see the truth, the light, the holiness of God, when we are with Him in Spirit. When we are at the throne of grace, when we are in the holiest place where God dwells. And as we behold Him, (and ourselves in His light,) we are changed into His image, by being in His presence. The seed in us grows while the old nature dies, because the first is strengthened in His presence, and the second dies in His presence, (as the children of Israel said at the holy mountain, "Let not God speak to us, lest we die.")

All of this to say that the only way to grow in God is to be with God.

Blessings in His name,
vic
 
E

ed

Guest
#24
#24
Saint said:
and that's where most of my problems come from, which worries me because thought always turns into action. but it's not that i don't think loving my enemies is wrong, because i know that it is right, my problem is actually doing it. Because there is a very, very big difference from knowing what is right and doing it. it's like romans 7 where paul is describing his internal fight to keep from doing the bad that he knows is bad and do the good that he knows is good. well, i'm a lot like him, i try and try to do what is good, and not what is evil, (in this case, thinking good towards an evil person instead of thinking evil towards and evil person) i even know which one is which, it's putting it in practice that i can't seem to do, like Paul. ha, come to think of it, that whole passage should be my motto. :eek:
Click to expand...
Hi Saint,
Your words, "(in this case, thinking good towards an evil person instead of thinking evil towards and evil person)
My previous posts took the view that you were desirous and impatient for the depth of love that would let you give your life for an evil person.
On the thinking level I could relate my personal experience where I learnt to love the person and hate the sin. My son revealed his sexual position as homosexual. I love my son. Then I saw a clear line,love the person ,hate the sin.
Jesus also gave me a teaching on this subject. I was in Thailand when the US invaded Afghanistan. This war was on TV. I used to race home from teaching English and turn on the TV and soak up all the action. Then each time I watched I became sick,not enough to vomit but uneasy. After just a couple or more of these sick episodes, I cried out to God, Surely you dont approve of what these terrorists are doing. And on my heart He said,No but you are not to take enjoyment from their punishment.
Please saint, just keep obeying the commandments of Jesus, listen to your heart (check against scripture) and obey. He will teach you and He will know when you are ready to progress. He desperately wants your faith to grow so don't rush Him.
love
edwin.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#25
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#25
I must add that the seed is perfect, the seed does not sin, because the seed is of God. What we are seeking to do is have the seed become our entire life, and to have the life we knew before, which is dead, that we might die to it. The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. The cross is our pathway to God, through the resurrection of Jesus. It is our cross in Jesus, just as it is our resurrection in Jesus. And, it is our life in Jesus, life to God.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#26
#26
ed said:
Hi Saint,
If you try to hurry God along you are being disobedient.

The love you are talking about seems to have a touch of romanticism. Leave that alone for a while. Love covers a lot of territory.

How old are you.
Click to expand...
to the first, it's not that i'm trying to hurry God, it's that i'm trying to keep myself from the apathy of doing nothing. to the second, that really depends on what you mean by "romanticism" because i know of 3.

(1) where a man courts a woman (or vice versa) which is not what i'm doing,

(2) the process of making something sound better in your head in order to like it better (ie: you're romantacising this job) which i am not doing and

(3) is God's undying love, leading Him to woo everyone, including those who are evil, and His command for us to do the same, which is exactly what i'm trying to do. and to the third, i'm 16.

VW said:
You quoted 1st John, that God is love. Well, the answer about how we are to be changed in this area is also in the same letter. We live in love, because when one lives in love, that one lives in God, and God lives in him. The answer is simple, but difficult. Please bear with me in this, because it is what we have been saved for, and why we are called to fellowship with God through Jesus.

Before Jesus came and endured suffering on the cross to death for us, and was buried for us to be risen to eternal life, for us; we could not know God. No people could actually know Him without His first choosing them. But now we all who are in Christ can know God, personally, closely, deeply, as our Father. We have been born of God, but we have not grown into what we are to be, we have not been changed, perfected, in His nature. His nature. The seed that is in us is His seed, given to us by the Holy Spirit.

John gives us a look at growing into Christ. Little children, young men, and fathers. Little children know that their sins are forgiven, for His name's sake. Our sins are forgiven because we have taken on His name, and for the sake of His name, our sins are forgiven. Young men, because they have overcome the evil one. Young men in Christ have grown in the Spirit, in the living Word of God, and the devil is overcome in their lives. And fathers, because they know Him who has been from the beginning, God the Father.

As we seek to walk in love and thus walk in God, we find that it is not in us to do so, not as we know Jesus walked in love towards us. We do at times, but someone comes to our attention that we just do not love, because of what they are, not because of what they do. I mean, it is not easy to love a murderer, or a child molester, or even to me the most difficult of all to love, the one who thinks only of their self, to the exclusion of all others, and will do anything at all to gain favor. We have the desire, because of the seed that is in us, God's seed, but the nature is not always there.

But as we draw near to God, (which is why Jesus came, to reconcile us back to God,) we see the things in our hearts which keep us from loving as He loves. This is the only place to see the truth, the light, the holiness of God, when we are with Him in Spirit. When we are at the throne of grace, when we are in the holiest place where God dwells. And as we behold Him, (and ourselves in His light,) we are changed into His image, by being in His presence. The seed in us grows while the old nature dies, because the first is strengthened in His presence, and the second dies in His presence, (as the children of Israel said at the holy mountain, "Let not God speak to us, lest we die.")

All of this to say that the only way to grow in God is to be with God.

Blessings in His name,
vic
Click to expand...
so you're saying i, and all Christians, have the seed of God in us, which grows and prospers the closer we get to God, and as it grows, our love will as well?

ed said:
Hi Saint,
Your words, "(in this case, thinking good towards an evil person instead of thinking evil towards and evil person)
My previous posts took the view that you were desirous and impatient for the depth of love that would let you give your life for an evil person.
On the thinking level I could relate my personal experience where I learnt to love the person and hate the sin. My son revealed his sexual position as homosexual. I love my son. Then I saw a clear line,love the person ,hate the sin.
Jesus also gave me a teaching on this subject. I was in Thailand when the US invaded Afghanistan. This war was on TV. I used to race home from teaching English and turn on the TV and soak up all the action. Then each time I watched I became sick,not enough to vomit but uneasy. After just a couple or more of these sick episodes, I cried out to God, Surely you dont approve of what these terrorists are doing. And on my heart He said,No but you are not to take enjoyment from their punishment.
Please saint, just keep obeying the commandments of Jesus, listen to your heart (check against scripture) and obey. He will teach you and He will know when you are ready to progress. He desperately wants your faith to grow so don't rush Him.
love
edwin.
Click to expand...

thank you for sharing these stories, ed. the second one led me to Romans 12:9-21-9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the LORD. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the LORD. 20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. which really goes along with what i've been having troubles with.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#27
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#27
Saint said:
so you're saying i, and all Christians, have the seed of God in us, which grows and prospers the closer we get to God, and as it grows, our love will as well?
Click to expand...
Yes, because God is love, and as His children, we too are love, the part of us that is of Him.

I believe that we are changed into His image as we behold His glory. Jesus prayed that the glory which the Father had given Him be our glory also, but what is this glory? Love, by the Holy Spirit. Paul wrote that the love of God is shed abroad in our hears by the Spirit. But even more, as we see Him, we are changed to be more like Him, because His presence is able to change us. If we look at everyone who has spent a great deal of time with God, we find that they have become more and more like Him. Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, the prophets, the apostles. They became what they were because the presence of God changed them.

Blessings in Jesus,
vic
 
E

ed

Guest
#28
#28
Saint said:
to the first, it's not that i'm trying to hurry God, it's that i'm trying to keep myself from the apathy of doing nothing. to the second, that really depends on what you mean by "romanticism" because i know of 3.

(1) where a man courts a woman (or vice versa) which is not what i'm doing,

(2) the process of making something sound better in your head in order to like it better (ie: you're romantacising this job) which i am not doing and

(3) is God's undying love, leading Him to woo everyone, including those who are evil, and His command for us to do the same, which is exactly what i'm trying to do. and to the third, i'm 16.



so you're saying i, and all Christians, have the seed of God in us, which grows and prospers the closer we get to God, and as it grows, our love will as well?




thank you for sharing these stories, ed. the second one led me to Romans 12:9-21-9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the LORD. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the LORD. 20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. which really goes along with what i've been having troubles with.
Click to expand...
Hi Saint,
Terrific. You have answered your own question.
love
edwin
 
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