Luke 16 question

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Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,356
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#2
How does a spirit possess a body.
How does GOD who IS SPIRIT feel love, hate, sorrow, etc....
How can angels which are SPIRIT take form

We are dealing with the ALL powerful God of HEAVEN which made ALL things.....I am fairly confident that if he wants a spirit to suffer in flame he can do this....

Remember the possessed man....Legion was their name and they begged JESUS to go into the HERD of SWINE......and were worried JESUS was there to TORMENT them before the time......

Sometimes......yea many times we must just take it by faith because NOT all things are meant to be fully understood at this time.....maybe later we will know more and how many things can be accomplished.....

Just food for thought
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,670
554
113
#3
how does a spirit suffer in fire?
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit of people do not burn in hell, for all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless of how the person behaved on earth, so the saints, and the heathen, will not retain their spirit in the afterlife, and will not be a part of them, which the spirit is probably our connection with God on this earth, for He will not have a relationship with us according to our flesh.

The flesh will return to the dust from where it came.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The soul will be the only thing that remains to live forever in heaven, or hell.

But I do not believe it is the soul that burns in the fire.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The heathen's worm shall not die, which means although the flesh returns to the dust from where it came they will feel the affects of the flesh for all eternity, and will feel the fire as the flesh feels the fire, for they loved the world, and the ways of the world according to the flesh, so they are stuck with the affects of the flesh for eternity.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The saints will be a soul with a spiritual body in heaven.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

All sin must be purged with fire, and the saints have fire put upon them also by the Holy Ghost to purge them.

That is why the earth shall be burned up, and all the works that is therein, for it is tainted with sin by people, and the heavens shall melt with fervent heat, for it tainted with sin by the fallen angels.

And there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, where sin has never been, and sin will never be.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#5
How does a spirit possess a body.
How does GOD who IS SPIRIT feel love, hate, sorrow, etc....
How can angels which are SPIRIT take form

We are dealing with the ALL powerful God of HEAVEN which made ALL things.....I am fairly confident that if he wants a spirit to suffer in flame he can do this....

Remember the possessed man....Legion was their name and they begged JESUS to go into the HERD of SWINE......and were worried JESUS was there to TORMENT them before the time......

Sometimes......yea many times we must just take it by faith because NOT all things are meant to be fully understood at this time.....maybe later we will know more and how many things can be accomplished.....

Just food for thought
huh?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#6
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit of people do not burn in hell, for all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless of how the person behaved on earth, so the saints, and the heathen, will not retain their spirit in the afterlife, and will not be a part of them, which the spirit is probably our connection with God on this earth, for He will not have a relationship with us according to our flesh.

The flesh will return to the dust from where it came.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The soul will be the only thing that remains to live forever in heaven, or hell.

But I do not believe it is the soul that burns in the fire.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The heathen's worm shall not die, which means although the flesh returns to the dust from where it came they will feel the affects of the flesh for all eternity, and will feel the fire as the flesh feels the fire, for they loved the world, and the ways of the world according to the flesh, so they are stuck with the affects of the flesh for eternity.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The saints will be a soul with a spiritual body in heaven.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

All sin must be purged with fire, and the saints have fire put upon them also by the Holy Ghost to purge them.

That is why the earth shall be burned up, and all the works that is therein, for it is tainted with sin by people, and the heavens shall melt with fervent heat, for it tainted with sin by the fallen angels.

And there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, where sin has never been, and sin will never be.
huh
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#7
What do you think? Please give us your thoughts?
It is only a guess on my part, they don't suffer in fire. The text must be figurative.
Imagine going into the presence of perfect love, then being removed from it.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,103
2,256
113
64
#8
how does a spirit suffer in fire?
Hi TheLearner, likewise, how would a "spirit" find relief from his fiery torment by having another spirit put a drop of water on his tongue? One might also wonder, does a spirit have a finger, or a tongue?

Perhaps there are some things that we either cannot know and/or were not meant to know, at least not on this side of the grave anyway? The good news is, God made sure that we know all that we need to know to find Him and to be saved by Him, yes :)

~Deut

Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.​
.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,223
1,873
113
#9
how does a spirit suffer in fire?
Greetings "thelearner."

Since it was said of both the rich man and Lazarus that they both died and their spirits are found to have departed and found in Sheol/Hades, we can deduce that they are the same person that they were when they were alive with all of their faculties and memories. Since we can come to this conclusion, then it is obvious that God knows how to punish the spirits of the unrighteous in flame.

After the millennial kingdom has completed, then the great white throne judgment will take place, where those who were in torment in flame in Sheol/Hades will be resurrected and will receive indestructible resurrection bodies which will endure the punishment in the lake of fire (Rev.20:11-15). This is supported by the fact that scripture states that "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever" and "they will have no rest day or night."
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#10
Hi TheLearner, likewise, how would a "spirit" find relief from his fiery torment by having another spirit put a drop of water on his tongue? One might also wonder, does a spirit have a finger, or a tongue?

Perhaps there are some things that we either cannot know and/or were not meant to know, at least not on this side of the grave anyway? The good news is, God made sure that we know all that we need to know to find Him and to be saved by Him, yes :)

~Deut

Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.​
.
Yes, would it not be more merciful to wipe unbelievers out of existence?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#11
Greetings "thelearner."

Since it was said of both the rich man and Lazarus that they both died and their spirits are found to have departed and found in Sheol/Hades, we can deduce that they are the same person that they were when they were alive with all of their faculties and memories. Since we can come to this conclusion, then it is obvious that God knows how to punish the spirits of the unrighteous in flame.

After the millennial kingdom has completed, then the great white throne judgment will take place, where those who were in torment in flame in Sheol/Hades will be resurrected and will receive indestructible resurrection bodies which will endure the punishment in the lake of fire (Rev.20:11-15). This is supported by the fact that scripture states that "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever" and "they will have no rest day or night."
Would not those of us in Heaven feel sorrow for people we knew on earth that in the flames?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,223
1,873
113
#12
Yes, would it not be more merciful to wipe unbelievers out of existence?
Punishment is not about grace and mercy. Grace and mercy are in operation for the individual while he/she is alive. Today is the day of salvation. Seek the Lord while He may be found! Once a person dies without Christ, there is no grace or mercy, but instead they will be held accountable for every idle word they have spoken.

That old saying of " The judge is going to throw the book at you" will come true at the great white throne judgment.

Remember, all sin is against a Holy, Righteous and Eternal God. For the believer, Christ was held accountable for all of their sins. For those who reject Christ and die in that state, they will be held accountable for every sin.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,223
1,873
113
#13
Would not those of us in Heaven feel sorrow for people we knew on earth that in the flames?
I believe that at the gathering of the church, when we receive our resurrected and immortal bodies, God will wipe all of our tears away. From that point forward we will no longer have our sinful nature and will be given knowledge and understanding that we cannot comprehend in our current bodies and mental reasoning.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#14
how does a spirit suffer in fire?
KJV Dictionary
A remarkable punishment; an extraordinary calamity inflicted by God on sinners. Judgments are prepared for scorners. Prov.19. Is.26.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
(c) of the fire of Divine judgment upon the rejectors of Christ, Matthew 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and the "fire" of Divine retribution;

I'm gonna speculate here that: Fire is a symbolic image/emblem of severe/acute judgment/pain. Where God's wrath is poured without pity. Where even a drop of water would be denied.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,477
6,140
113
#15
how does a spirit suffer in fire?
If the fire is supernatural and designed for the suffering of spirits, that should be quite simple. Since Hell (the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels (spirit beings) they will suffer in a way that we do not presently understand.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,007
9,684
113
#18
how does a spirit suffer in fire?
is there such a thing as spiritual fire, and what is it?

what are the characteristics of a burning spirit, in a negative connotation?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,007
9,684
113
#19
Would not those of us in Heaven feel sorrow for people we knew on earth that in the flames?
He will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the old order of things has passed away.
(Revelation 21:4)
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#20
Punishment is not about grace and mercy. Grace and mercy are in operation for the individual while he/she is alive. Today is the day of salvation. Seek the Lord while He may be found! Once a person dies without Christ, there is no grace or mercy, but instead they will be held accountable for every idle word they have spoken.

That old saying of " The judge is going to throw the book at you" will come true at the great white throne judgment.

Remember, all sin is against a Holy, Righteous and Eternal God. For the believer, Christ was held accountable for all of their sins. For those who reject Christ and die in that state, they will be held accountable for every sin.
I already looked at the "day of salvation" texts, none of them limit the time period of the Gospel. I already pointed this out in this thread.