Martin Luther Invented the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" Doctrine
- Thread starter Skinski7
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I am commenting on your compromise of Jesus's words.
Jesus did not compromise with sin, ever, or has he ever.
The whole temple system was set up to deal with sin, which pointed to Christ and the cross
which was the ultimate sacrifice for sin. We are called to walk righteously.
What sin are you compromising on? Swearing, stealing, false testimony, adultery, anger,
covertousness, idolatry?
Please tell me which aspect is dubious and not worthy of condemnation?
How is it you can take the Lords words and compromise them without any fear or caution?
Such an approach is answerable to Him.
And I am not judging your faith, just your arrogance to compromise my Lords words.
Jesus did not compromise with sin, ever, or has he ever.
The whole temple system was set up to deal with sin, which pointed to Christ and the cross
which was the ultimate sacrifice for sin. We are called to walk righteously.
What sin are you compromising on? Swearing, stealing, false testimony, adultery, anger,
covertousness, idolatry?
Please tell me which aspect is dubious and not worthy of condemnation?
How is it you can take the Lords words and compromise them without any fear or caution?
Such an approach is answerable to Him.
And I am not judging your faith, just your arrogance to compromise my Lords words.
IOW, Jesus gave the woman her choice back regarding ALL sin....Until people come to the truth that SIN is CHOICE and not ACTION, they will never, ever understand why Jesus tells us go and SIN and no more....
Our flesh & Mind are not made perfect at conversion, but our Spirit is....We will never be sinless perfection in this life....you do have the CHOICE not to engage in SIN and overcome SIN now....not later....once again we will never be sinless perfection in this life, but some of you seem to think you are powerless over SIN now and that is not what Jesus taught in John 8....and Paul expressed all through Romans...
In Fact the first place we SIN is a CHOICE and not an action or omission or commission is found with Cain in Genesis 4.6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”
Overcoming does not mean sinless perfection, because nobody but shinski & Jesus are perfect.....Overcoming SIN means you chose not to let have dominion over you and you let empowering grace teach you through prayer, fasting, studying and meditating the word, renewal of your mind to the word, and understanding your position in Christ....how to not be entangled and run your race....
This is not about obtaining, maintaining salvation by works either...this is simply Romans 6-8 in a nutshell...
Perfection in human terms is different than spiritual maturing[perfection] in kingdom terms....
Jesus does not expect perfection because he is the only one that is that way, but he does not expect you to let SIN have dominion over you and gave you the tools to overcome today....
The issue we have is the way SIN and overcoming it is taught and I rarely see it taught from the Bible correctly, if at all....
Our flesh & Mind are not made perfect at conversion, but our Spirit is....We will never be sinless perfection in this life....you do have the CHOICE not to engage in SIN and overcome SIN now....not later....once again we will never be sinless perfection in this life, but some of you seem to think you are powerless over SIN now and that is not what Jesus taught in John 8....and Paul expressed all through Romans...
In Fact the first place we SIN is a CHOICE and not an action or omission or commission is found with Cain in Genesis 4.6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”
Overcoming does not mean sinless perfection, because nobody but shinski & Jesus are perfect.....Overcoming SIN means you chose not to let have dominion over you and you let empowering grace teach you through prayer, fasting, studying and meditating the word, renewal of your mind to the word, and understanding your position in Christ....how to not be entangled and run your race....
This is not about obtaining, maintaining salvation by works either...this is simply Romans 6-8 in a nutshell...
Perfection in human terms is different than spiritual maturing[perfection] in kingdom terms....
Jesus does not expect perfection because he is the only one that is that way, but he does not expect you to let SIN have dominion over you and gave you the tools to overcome today....
The issue we have is the way SIN and overcoming it is taught and I rarely see it taught from the Bible correctly, if at all....
It's like in one instance it's claimed that everything Christ said was "before the cross". Then in another instance Christ was merely "keeping up appearances" so he wouldn't look a certain way? I mean, come on...when will we accept that Christ actually meant what he said at all times?
There's a reason why most of what he said started with "TRULY, TRULY" and "till heaven and earth disappears" and "my words will not disappear".
"why do you call me lord and lord and do not do what I say??" (Luke 6:46)
There's a reason why most of what he said started with "TRULY, TRULY" and "till heaven and earth disappears" and "my words will not disappear".
"why do you call me lord and lord and do not do what I say??" (Luke 6:46)
What came to me recently was I was using the same arguments as the apostles
against heresy, false teaching, and expressing the boundaries of the truth.
To a degree I did not understand the words before because they were addressing
someone who did not see God or know Him, so it was not my issue. But so much
is written to address these people, that when you see this, it is why it sees odd,
because it is not really addressed at the elect, but at how others distort and change
the reality of who Christ is and what rightousness and grace really are.
against heresy, false teaching, and expressing the boundaries of the truth.
To a degree I did not understand the words before because they were addressing
someone who did not see God or know Him, so it was not my issue. But so much
is written to address these people, that when you see this, it is why it sees odd,
because it is not really addressed at the elect, but at how others distort and change
the reality of who Christ is and what rightousness and grace really are.
I hate to say this, but has it ever occurred to you that Jesus empowers us to walk in
love because His love is literally alive in our hearts.
We are walking in Gods will honouring Him empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Condemnation is only for those who walk in the failure to love, which is not the way of
the Spirit.
I encourage you to actually have faith in Christ repent of your sin and truly walk in His
ways before the cross daily, for He is our King and Lord and this is our calling.
love because His love is literally alive in our hearts.
We are walking in Gods will honouring Him empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Condemnation is only for those who walk in the failure to love, which is not the way of
the Spirit.
I encourage you to actually have faith in Christ repent of your sin and truly walk in His
ways before the cross daily, for He is our King and Lord and this is our calling.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James is saying plain and simple,allow the Spirit to lead you,and do the works that God wants you to do,which are not works of the flesh,and not works of ourselves,but of the Spirit,and the Bible says grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit,for if we do not do what the Spirit wants us to do,then how do we have faith.
That is why James pointed out the works of Abraham concerning Isaac,and Rachael concerning the Jews,for they did what God wanted them to do,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.
Paul addressing the Gentiles,and their false religions,that their works will not find them favor with God,and all they can is have faith.Faith alone,not saved by works,when a person confesses Christ.
James is addressing the saints are they receive the Spirit,that they have to do what God wants them to do,which is not works of the flesh,not self righteous works,but works of the Spirit,to have faith active in their life.
Faith alone,not saved by works,confessing Christ.
A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after receiving the Spirit.
The works are not of the flesh,not self righteous,not of ourselves,but works of the Spirit,which if we do not do what God wants us to do,we are rebellious,then how can we have faith.
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James is saying plain and simple,allow the Spirit to lead you,and do the works that God wants you to do,which are not works of the flesh,and not works of ourselves,but of the Spirit,and the Bible says grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit,for if we do not do what the Spirit wants us to do,then how do we have faith.
That is why James pointed out the works of Abraham concerning Isaac,and Rachael concerning the Jews,for they did what God wanted them to do,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.
Paul addressing the Gentiles,and their false religions,that their works will not find them favor with God,and all they can is have faith.Faith alone,not saved by works,when a person confesses Christ.
James is addressing the saints are they receive the Spirit,that they have to do what God wants them to do,which is not works of the flesh,not self righteous works,but works of the Spirit,to have faith active in their life.
Faith alone,not saved by works,confessing Christ.
A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after receiving the Spirit.
The works are not of the flesh,not self righteous,not of ourselves,but works of the Spirit,which if we do not do what God wants us to do,we are rebellious,then how can we have faith.
Do you believe from that moment on the woman led a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect life (exactly as Jesus lived) 100% of the time? Of course you don't.
I'm glad that you recognize we will never reach sinless perfection in this life. So you understand the point I made in post #295? Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10). So you get it. LOL about skinski7.
Salvation is neither obtained or maintained by works, yet works salvationists believe otherwise.
There is a difference between being absolutely perfect, flawless, and perfect as in mature, complete.
So you get it. Yet, others ridicule me for not teaching that Jesus was demanding sinless perfection from the woman who He told to "go and sin no more." I think some people just like to stir up arguments. They have nothing better to do.
I'm glad that you recognize we will never reach sinless perfection in this life. So you understand the point I made in post #295? Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10). So you get it. LOL about skinski7.
Salvation is neither obtained or maintained by works, yet works salvationists believe otherwise.
There is a difference between being absolutely perfect, flawless, and perfect as in mature, complete.
So you get it.
Yet, others ridicule me for not teaching that Jesus was demanding sinless perfection from the woman who He told to "go and sin no more." I think some people just like to stir up arguments. They have nothing better to do. I do not know because I cannot judge such a thing.
I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes.
1 Cor 4:3-5
We are called to walk in love, so fulfilling the law.
We are called to repent of any known sin and serve others.
This is what I endeavour to do as it is revealed to me.
On that day the Lord will show what has actually been done.
Now when Jesus asks us to sin no more, that is our desire.
So let us walk in this. That is not such a difficult concept
to get across.
I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes.
1 Cor 4:3-5
We are called to walk in love, so fulfilling the law.
We are called to repent of any known sin and serve others.
This is what I endeavour to do as it is revealed to me.
On that day the Lord will show what has actually been done.
Now when Jesus asks us to sin no more, that is our desire.
So let us walk in this. That is not such a difficult concept
to get across.
Sorry, I give the answers I can.
I neither lecture or say anything about my holiness or righteousness.
I do not claim to have the words of Christ, I just quote Jesus's words
and concepts from scripture. And I encourage people to follow Christ.
You do realise changing my words and obvious intentions does not reflect
well on you, and puts me in a much better light, so thank you my friend
and God bless you.
I neither lecture or say anything about my holiness or righteousness.
I do not claim to have the words of Christ, I just quote Jesus's words
and concepts from scripture. And I encourage people to follow Christ.
You do realise changing my words and obvious intentions does not reflect
well on you, and puts me in a much better light, so thank you my friend
and God bless you.
AMEN...only thing I would change is the word thousands to tens/hundreds of thousands or possibly millions........as a matter of fact there is NO way ANYONE can accurately know and or be mindful of ever sin they have ever committed....many if not most are hardened to their own sin.....and or sometimes not in tune with the Holy Spirit and the conviction and or enlightenment that comes from the scriptures and or Holy Spirit................We all do things daily that misses the mark and or fails God in some form or fashion.....hence the grace of God out bounding our sin......and the eternal application of the blood.......
Many in a church setting get used to only one style of preaching or expressing faith, love
and hope. If you come at things form a different point of view, they immediately jump on
their group band wagon, that is not what we say in our church etc.
It is easy to cross wires and say the same things but in different words. And sometimes
to actually have a different view or faith and not realise it. I have met many church goers
who really have a wacky set of ideas, and are not really there. But we often assume the
preacher represents the congregation, but this is just an assumption. You see the differences
when real disputes start to arise. lol.
I wonder how many came to cc thinking everyone would agree with them? Lol.
and hope. If you come at things form a different point of view, they immediately jump on
their group band wagon, that is not what we say in our church etc.
It is easy to cross wires and say the same things but in different words. And sometimes
to actually have a different view or faith and not realise it. I have met many church goers
who really have a wacky set of ideas, and are not really there. But we often assume the
preacher represents the congregation, but this is just an assumption. You see the differences
when real disputes start to arise. lol.
I wonder how many came to cc thinking everyone would agree with them? Lol.
No...actually describing a saved sinner...that is what we are and nothing more.....exactly why it states...God is good and his MERCY ENDURES FOREVER.......
and my numbers are indicative of a lifetime.....and the points are applicable to believers.....some are highly tuned to the Spirit, some not so much....and there is not a just man upon the planet that does good and sins not is the point......
and my numbers are indicative of a lifetime.....and the points are applicable to believers.....some are highly tuned to the Spirit, some not so much....and there is not a just man upon the planet that does good and sins not is the point......