Mary as the mother of God?

[Scotth1960]

dont start on fallible people, because your popes of the Dark Ages were as wicked as they could get, and yet your religion says they were still infallible

at least the Protestants went back to scripture alone, without relying on people such as the heretic Augustine, or other Catholic bishops after him...

Dear Zilla64007, That is exactly what most of the early Protestants did do. They didn't rely on "scripture alone", no matter how much they professed to do so. Luther's and Calvin's theology is straight out of Augustine of Hippo. If you don't ignore Church history, you would know this is so. Don't take my word for it. Dig in! Study hard! Read objective sources. The best most objective sources are Eastern Orthodox. Luther and Calvin, together with most Protestants of the traditional Protestant denominations say "FILIOQUE" "and the Son", and this comes right out of AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO. One objective, Roman Catholic source, shows that Augustine of Hippo, not the New Testament, is the source of the Filioque dogma. See: Kung, Hans. (2001). The Catholic Church: A Brief History. New York: Modern Library. God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington



oh by the way, how did all those killings via the Papal Inquisition fill out fo rya, or the Spanish Jesuits for that matter, or the mass murders of French Calvinists during the Reformation, or the beheadings of those in the dark Ages who didn't follow the Roman Catholic Church?... or how bout the involvement of the Roman Catholic Church of the support of Adolf Hitler, who heartlessly murdered the Jews?... your religion just got worse as time went on. and not to mention the interesting little sex scandals of the bishops within Roman Catholicism... dont even start, santo. Your religion's history is no better.

and when it comes to John Wesley, I'll take his word over your pope any day of the week.

that's interesting, scotth, because the entire Roman Catholic church in is error, with it's works based salvation, penance, indulgences, praying to Mary, praying to saints, relics, papal infallibility, and removing the 2nd commandment from the Bible...

the Bible says to contend for the faith that was once delivered unto all the saints... from studying church history, neither the Eastern Orthodox Church or the Roman Catholic church ever got it right.

From studying Church history, the Eastern Orthodox Church got it exactly right (see John 15:26). The Protestant "churches", along with the Roman papist "church", all say "And the Son", against John 15:26. Against James 2:24, Luther adds the word "alone" to the text of Romans 3:28, a word "alone" which is NOT in the Greek New Testament! When asked by Dr. Link, the eminent German scholar of the German language, why he, Martin Luther, was adding words to the German Bible, as in Rom. 3:28, Luther said: "I will have it so. And it is so. It is my will that it is so (that it be so). It is so because I, Herr Doctor Martin Luther, say it is so." Thus, according to Luther, salvation is by faith "alone", because "I, Herr Doctor Martin Luther, say it is so!" Sounds more like "Sola Luther" than "Sola Scriptura" to me!
Luther never got this right. He contradicted James 2:24 by his mistranslation (forgery!) of Romans 3:28. Thus, he believed the epistle of James was written by no apostle of Jesus Christ.
Go figure!
God save us all. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[TheTruthWillSetYouFree]

From studying Church history, the Eastern Orthodox Church got it exactly right (see John 15:26). The Protestant "churches", along with the Roman papist "church", all say "And the Son", against John 15:26. Against James 2:24, Luther adds the word "alone" to the text of Romans 3:28, a word "alone" which is NOT in the Greek New Testament! When asked by Dr. Link, the eminent German scholar of the German language, why he, Martin Luther, was adding words to the German Bible, as in Rom. 3:28, Luther said: "I will have it so. And it is so. It is my will that it is so (that it be so). It is so because I, Herr Doctor Martin Luther, say it is so." Thus, according to Luther, salvation is by faith "alone", because "I, Herr Doctor Martin Luther, say it is so!" Sounds more like "Sola Luther" than "Sola Scriptura" to me!
Luther never got this right. He contradicted James 2:24 by his mistranslation (forgery!) of Romans 3:28. Thus, he believed the epistle of James was written by no apostle of Jesus Christ.
Go figure!
God save us all. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
[/SIZE]

Forget about Church "history". The validity of a church's message is determined by how closely it currently fits with the Bible - not how nice its history is.

 

[Scotth1960]

Forget about Church "history". The validity of a church's message is determined by how closely it currently fits with the Bible - not how nice its history is.

Jesus Christ is the same, "yesterday and today and forever" (Hebrews). From this, it follows logically (see 1 Tim. 3:15) that His Church must be one and the same "yesterday and today and forever", as the Church is "the Body of Christ" (Ephesians 4). How the Bible is currently interpreted by the One Church, the Orthodox Church, is the same as it was interpreted in the past, and the same way it will be interpreted in the future, which is in God's hands. The truth does not change (John 16:13, John 15:26, John 3:16, Jude 3, Matt 16:18: One Lord one Faith one baptism one God and Father of all, on Body (Church) and one Spirit (cf. Eph. 4). God bless you.
PS Don't forget about Church history! Doing so leads to ignorance on how to rightly discern (interpret) the word of truth in the Bible.

 

[Sweetbird]

Abstenence. 99.999999999% effective.

 

[dishchat]

There is no place in the Bible who says that Mary is the mother of God. If so, there should be at least one christian who prayed unto her.

 

[dscherck]

There is no place in the Bible who says that Mary is the mother of God. If so, there should be at least one christian who prayed unto her.

So then you're saying that Jesus isn't God?

 

[Grandpa]

So then you're saying that Jesus isn't God?

Mary did not birth God.

Mary birthed the man, Jesus. You see Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. Marys involvement was with the Man part. She had no involvement in the God part, nor could she possibly, unless she was also God. We all know that is not the case, don't we?

God wasn't birthed. God is, was, and will be.

 

[luciddream1982]

So then you're saying that Jesus isn't God?

Did Mary exist before God?

 

[dscherck]

Did Mary exist before God?

Not relevant. Mary is the mother of Jesus. So who is Jesus? Is Jesus God?

 

[dscherck]

Mary did not birth God.

Mary birthed the man, Jesus. You see Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. Marys involvement was with the Man part. She had no involvement in the God part, nor could she possibly, unless she was also God. We all know that is not the case, don't we?

God wasn't birthed. God is, was, and will be.

So somehow Jesus is God, but despite Mary being His mother, she's not His mother because.... How?

Was He not 100% God in the womb? Did not John the Baptist leap for joy in his mother's womb when Mary and Jesus approached?

Tell me, how can someone be the mother to part of a person?

 

[luciddream1982]

Not relevant. Mary is the mother of Jesus. So who is Jesus? Is Jesus God?

Then why not just say mother of Jesus then? Is it because it hurts the deity (or lack thereof) of Mary?

 

[luciddream1982]

So somehow Jesus is God, but despite Mary being His mother, she's not His mother because.... How?

Was He not 100% God in the womb? Did not John the Baptist leap for joy in his mother's womb when Mary and Jesus approached?

Tell me, how can someone be the mother to part of a person?

Why didnt Jesus know the day or hour but God did?

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

[Grandpa]

So somehow Jesus is God, but despite Mary being His mother, she's not His mother because.... How?

Was He not 100% God in the womb? Did not John the Baptist leap for joy in his mother's womb when Mary and Jesus approached?

Tell me, how can someone be the mother to part of a person?

I didn't say Mary was not the Mother of Jesus. Nor did I say Jesus was not God.

God was not birthed.

God is, was and will be.

Mary is not the mother of god because that insinuates things that should never be insinuated.

You know, the whole mixing of paganism with Christianity...

Did God exist before Mary? Of course. How can Mary give birth to what exists before her? She can't.

What she could do is give birth to the flesh in which God inhabited for a time.

So if you want to be technical, Mary is the mother of the flesh that God dwelled in from around 0BC to about 33AD.

 

[dscherck]

Then why not just say mother of Jesus then? Is it because it hurts the deity (or lack thereof) of Mary?

No. Mary's not divine. No one's ever taught so either.

That said, why is everyone so eager to deny that Mary's Son is God?

 

[Grandpa]

No. Mary's not divine. No one's ever taught so either.

That said, why is everyone so eager to deny that Mary's Son is God?

Its not the issue of denying Marys son is God.

It is the issue of denying that Mary is God. Or the Mother of God.

Big difference.

 

[dscherck]

I didn't say Mary was not the Mother of Jesus. Nor did I say Jesus was not God.

God was not birthed.

Yes He was.

While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them. -Luke 2:6-7

God is, was and will be.

Mary is not the mother of god because that insinuates things that should never be insinuated.

Scripture is quite clear that Mary is the mother of Jesus. So then, if Mary isn't the mother of God, then Jesus isn't God apparently.

You know, the whole mixing of paganism with Christianity...

I'm not mixing paganism with Christianity. I'm merely pointing out that Jesus is God, and Mary is His mother. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.

Did God exist before Mary? Of course. How can Mary give birth to what exists before her? She can't.

Are you saying that God cannot make it so He is born of a woman? God can turn stones into sons of Abraham, but He can't be born from Mary?

What she could do is give birth to the flesh in which God inhabited for a time.

So if you want to be technical, Mary is the mother of the flesh that God dwelled in from around 0BC to about 33AD.

[/quote]

How can someone be the mother of just a part of someone? Are you just the grandpa of someone's flesh?

 

[dscherck]

Its not the issue of denying Marys son is God.

It is the issue of denying that Mary is God. Or the Mother of God.

Big difference.

I never said anything about Mary being God. That's quite heretical. She is however the mother of God.

Big difference.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes He was.




Scripture is quite clear that Mary is the mother of Jesus. So then, if Mary isn't the mother of God, then Jesus isn't God apparently.


I'm not mixing paganism with Christianity. I'm merely pointing out that Jesus is God, and Mary is His mother. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.


Are you saying that God cannot make it so He is born of a woman? God can turn stones into sons of Abraham, but He can't be born from Mary?

How can someone be the mother of just a part of someone? Are you just the grandpa of someone's flesh?[/quote]


Yes, actually. That is the gist of it. I am just the grandpa of someones flesh. All the rest is provided by God.

Same with Mary. She is the mother of a few peoples flesh. God gave them everything else.

 

[Grandpa]

I never said anything about Mary being God. That's quite heretical. She is however the mother of God.

Big difference.

Its the insinuation that I object to. In order to give birth to God you must be a God also. That is the insinuation. Maybe not one you intend, but it is there nonetheless.

Mary is the mother of Jesus. She is blessed because of it. Everyone knows her name, because of her son.

Do you remember what God said about sharing His Glory??

 

[luciddream1982]

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

So even though my dad is my "father" he really isnt. Only father of my flesh. I have one Father who is in heaven.

And Mary isnt the "Mother" of God. Just the Mother of Jesus while God was in the flesh.