Masturbation sinful?

[livingbygrace]

Who says this? Are you referring to me and my comments from my other thread? I am not saying that you are referring to me, but if so:

Matthew 9:29 (King James Version)
29Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

According to our faith be it unto us. All things are possible with God!!!

Telling people that they can have an experience that "allows" them to always walk in purity should give hope to souls who are trapped in sin. It certainly gave me hope that someday I might be free of my enslavement.

I would suggest you Google John Wesley's "Plain Account of Christian Perfection" in order to understand what this "perfection" is and is not. Certainly it does not make one free from error, or sins by error. This perfection does however give the ability to never commit willful sin.

The greatest revivals in history have come from this doctrine of "Perfection," Wesley, Booth, Finney. You shall know them by their fruits.

Quest

Quest

I assure you I was not refering to you in any way. I know you have become crushed by the demands people have set on you, and you have never told me that.

You are a sincere Christian, and I always enjoy reading your posts

I do believe there is a difference between striving in the Spirit to be all we should be, and believing that we will achieve Christian perfection in regards to doing nothing wrong on earth
God Bless

 

[QuestionTime]

I love how the methodist/other, don't like to mention George whitefield in the same breath..Mmmmmm why would that be?

I don't know much about him honestly, other than what I've read from Wesley's writings and books on Wesley. Why, does he have some contrary opinion regarding "Christian Perfection?" I would not be surprised if he does, as he was a Calvinist and they have a rather weak view of God's Sanctifying work. According to our faith be it unto us. We limit God by our lack of faith. I personally refuse to do so, but others may.

John Wesley was the leader of the Holy Club. Without him I don't think the club would have amounted to much. He was the one who drove them on to holiness and challenged them all continually.

Also I would argue that Whitefield had nothing to do with what Methodism became. Wesley started the Methodist church. Whitefield was already dead by that time. The Methodist church followed Wesley's beliefs not Whitefield's.

Quest

 

[livingbygrace]

MMm this is a good topic..

But being a man I know that is almost impossible to masturbate without lustful thoughts. so it boils down to your motive behind the actual act. Is it a Godly wholesome motive, are your thoughts pure?

What are your motives, that is more the question?



Phil

I know what you mean Phil, but if a conversion is sincere, the person cannot want to commit masturbation if it arouses lustful thoughts(in my opinion) They are dsoing what they do not want to do. This happened to the Apostle Paul. He said when we do what we do not want to do it is plain sin still has us in its grasp.

My beef is do Christians tell others what caused Paul to be consumed by lustful thoughts, do they tell people what aroused the sinful desires in Paul, and do they tell people how Paul became free. If they do not and just tell others they are sinning, then I honestly believe if they know the truth they become guilty of not helping a fellowc Christian be free of the grip of masturbation or any other sin. And it is a Christians duty to help their fellow Christian by telling them the truth, not leaving them feel condemned

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free

 

[phil36]

I know what you mean Phil, but if a conversion is sincere, the person cannot want to commit masturbation if it arouses lustful thoughts(in my opinion) They are dsoing what they do not want to do. This happened to the Apostle Paul. He said when we do what we do not want to do it is plain sin still has us in its grasp.

My beef is do Christians tell others what caused Paul to be consumed by lustful thoughts, do they tell people what aroused the sinful desires in Paul, and do they tell people how Paul became free. If they do not and just tell others they are sinning, then I honestly believe if they know the truth they become guilty of not helping a fellowc Christian be free of the grip of masturbation or any other sin. And it is a Christians duty to help their fellow Christian by telling them the truth, not leaving them feel condemned

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free

I agree with you livingbygrace, it is a struggle with the flesh. I wasn't setting forth any principles other than the fact that Masturbation is impossible without thinking of lustful things (well I know thats the case for men, not sure about women).

I totally agree with you that, when you ar doing this and you are Born again, the Holy Spirit will convict you of this .

God post living by grace.

Phil

 

[resurrection33]

Please stay on topic. The question is very specific so don't enlarge the scope too much..

I got this interesting question brought up by one of my smart sunday school student.
I admit I am quite baffled... Before I answer to him, I thought I should consult first to others who might know the answer to his Qs..

I think most denomination Christian agrees that masturbation is somewhat sinful.
One of the supporting verse to condemn masturbation is:

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

----------
So, here are the Q:
1. What if the person is imagining his lawfully wedded wife while masturbating? Would that be considered a sin?

2. What if the person is not imagining anything but simply having the gratification from stimulation of touching? Would that be considered sinful?

Thanks for your answer.

When you lust after someone you are not lawfully married to, I believe you are committing adultery.

 

[livingbygrace]

I believe that everyone who says that masturbation is sinful has a Christian duty to explain to people the way out of their sin. It is simply no good to say people are sinning without giving the Biblical answer to freedom from their sin.

Also they have a Christian duty to explain what the writer of nearly half the books of the NT said caused the sinful passions in him.

 

[resurrection33]

I believe that everyone who says that masturbation is sinful has a Christian duty to explain to people the way out of their sin. It is simply no good to say people are sinning without giving the Biblical answer to freedom from their sin.

Also they have a Christian duty to explain what the writer of nearly half the books of the NT said caused the sinful passions in him.

On the other hand, you don’t want to become legalistic. The Scripture you quoted (Matt 5:28) makes it very clear that you have committed adultery when you look lustfully at someone. The sin is committed in your heart, as the Scripture says. To try to get around the Scripture by putting a blindfold on so you can’t actually LOOK lustfully at someone may make it seem to you that you are obeying the law, but you certainly wouldn’t be obeying the INTENT of the law, would you?

 

[livingbygrace]

On the other hand, you don’t want to become legalistic. The Scripture you quoted (Matt 5:28) makes it very clear that you have committed adultery when you look lustfully at someone. The sin is committed in your heart, as the Scripture says. To try to get around the Scripture by putting a blindfold on so you can’t actually LOOK lustfully at someone may make it seem to you that you are obeying the law, but you certainly wouldn’t be obeying the INTENT of the law, would you?

Im genuinely sorry butv I do ont understand your comment. I have not quoited Matt5:28 I am not sure I understand the last bit either. I just believe that preople must be told the Biblical reason for lustful passions being in them, and the Biblical solution. I'm not trying to get round anything, I assure you

 

[resurrection33]

Im genuinely sorry butv I do ont understand your comment. I have not quoited Matt5:28 I am not sure I understand the last bit either. I just believe that preople must be told the Biblical reason for lustful passions being in them, and the Biblical solution. I'm not trying to get round anything, I assure you

I’m sorry—I got you mixed up with dodolah, who introduced the thread.

 

[dodolah]

MMm this is a good topic..
But being a man I know that is almost impossible to masturbate without lustful thoughts. so it boils down to your motive behind the actual act. Is it a Godly wholesome motive, are your thoughts pure?
What are your motives, that is more the question?
Phil

I know what you mean Phil, but if a conversion is sincere, the person cannot want to commit masturbation if it arouses lustful thoughts(in my opinion) They are dsoing what they do not want to do. This happened to the Apostle Paul. He said when we do what we do not want to do it is plain sin still has us in its grasp.

My beef is do Christians tell others what caused Paul to be consumed by lustful thoughts, do they tell people what aroused the sinful desires in Paul, and do they tell people how Paul became free. If they do not and just tell others they are sinning, then I honestly believe if they know the truth they become guilty of not helping a fellowc Christian be free of the grip of masturbation or any other sin. And it is a Christians duty to help their fellow Christian by telling them the truth, not leaving them feel condemned

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free

When you lust after someone you are not lawfully married to, I believe you are committing adultery.

That is why the idea of lusting as the sin not the masturbation act itself.
So, we are back to the first question, if a man lust for his wife during masturbating, would he committed an adultery? Is it wrong to have sexual desire for your spouse?

And, i forgot who, but there is one here who asked "how can a man imagine a woman that he never met before?"
I think you got my question wrong. Let's make a hypothetical problem that illustrate my point:
A man got married. He is drafted to become an army. He moved to country far away.
During his lonely time, he fantasize about his wife.
Now, is the man committed a sinful act? After all, he has every right to feel sexual desire for his wife.. Would it be called an adultery or sexual immorality?

 

[forgivenandloved]

I think this is a subject that a person must have a conviction time by the holy spirit.

 

[dan1el]

Actually the most convincing verse is the one that comes after "you have committed adultery in your heart already." -- the one that says, "And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off..." What do you think He was referring to? Once you're imagining a woman in your heart, committing sexual sins, naturally, you use your hands to masturbate.

 

[QuestionTime]

And, i forgot who, but there is one here who asked "how can a man imagine a woman that he never met before?"
I think you got my question wrong. Let's make a hypothetical problem that illustrate my point:
A man got married. He is drafted to become an army. He moved to country far away.
During his lonely time, he fantasize about his wife.
Now, is the man committed a sinful act? After all, he has every right to feel sexual desire for his wife.. Would it be called an adultery or sexual immorality?

Greetings,

That would be me who made that comment. As far as a single man who has yet to meet his wife, my answer stands.

As for a man who is away from his wife and should think sexual thoughts of her, I believe that is not only acceptable, but also wonderful. Yes, wonderful, because he loves her and his mind is only upon her.

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

I think this is a subject that a person must have a conviction time by the holy spirit.

What is a "conviction time" forgivenandloved? I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Are you saying that this is something we must consult the Holy Spirit in regards to, and then follow our conscience on the matter? If so, then I agree.

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

Actually the most convincing verse is the one that comes after "you have committed adultery in your heart already." -- the one that says, "And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off..." What do you think He was referring to? Once you're imagining a woman in your heart, committing sexual sins, naturally, you use your hands to masturbate.

Perhaps you are right. Still, that doesn't prove that masturbation without fantasy is a sin, and that's the topic we are debating.

Quest

 

[dodolah]

Actually the most convincing verse is the one that comes after "you have committed adultery in your heart already." -- the one that says, "And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off..." What do you think He was referring to? Once you're imagining a woman in your heart, committing sexual sins, naturally, you use your hands to masturbate.

any woman? how about if the woman is your wife? how can it be a sexual sin if you and your wife are blessed by the Lord?

 

[livingbygrace]

That is why the idea of lusting as the sin not the masturbation act itself.
So, we are back to the first question, if a man lust for his wife during masturbating, would he committed an adultery? Is it wrong to have sexual desire for your spouse?

And, i forgot who, but there is one here who asked "how can a man imagine a woman that he never met before?"
I think you got my question wrong. Let's make a hypothetical problem that illustrate my point:
A man got married. He is drafted to become an army. He moved to country far away.
During his lonely time, he fantasize about his wife.
Now, is the man committed a sinful act? After all, he has every right to feel sexual desire for his wife.. Would it be called an adultery or sexual immorality?

No, in the example you give I don't see how anyone coulde call it a sinful act. God looks at the heart. He could be fantasising about anyone, but he isn't only his wife. As to whether it is wrong to masturbate if there are no lustful thoughts. I don't personally think it is, but in saying that such masturbation could lead to impure thoughts.

I don't know how old your sunday school class is, but can I ask you? Have you told them that sin used the Commandment. 'Thou shalt not Covet' to arouse all kinds of lustful desires in the Apostle Paul. He said he would never have known what coveting really was if the commandment had not said. 'Thou shalt not covet' He also said that the very commandment that was intended to bring him life brought death instead.
For young people I passionately believe they need to hear the truth before they could well find happen to them what happened to Paul.

 

[shanaynay-deleted]

....Yes....So get married

 

[forgivenandloved]

What is a "conviction time" forgivenandloved? I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Are you saying that this is something we must consult the Holy Spirit in regards to, and then follow our conscience on the matter? If so, then I agree.

Quest

yes I believe so that can only be done if through bible reading prayer and being quiet and listening to God.

 

[phil36]

That is why the idea of lusting as the sin not the masturbation act itself.
So, we are back to the first question, if a man lust for his wife during masturbating, would he committed an adultery? Is it wrong to have sexual desire for your spouse?

And, i forgot who, but there is one here who asked "how can a man imagine a woman that he never met before?"
I think you got my question wrong. Let's make a hypothetical problem that illustrate my point:
A man got married. He is drafted to become an army. He moved to country far away.
During his lonely time, he fantasize about his wife.
Now, is the man committed a sinful act? After all, he has every right to feel sexual desire for his wife.. Would it be called an adultery or sexual immorality?

Mmm, that's a good question, if a man is doing in absence of his wife, well then I would say that is a matter for each individuals conscience, as long as it is just his wife he is thinking of?

Any other occasion is just lust.... and you can't separate the two. the act of masturbation itself is always brought about by lust.