Matthew 11:12

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pickles

pickles

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I didnt open your referance but could the scripture refur to Jesus as the kindom and the violence be when he was crucified?God bless, pickles
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

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That wasn't the conclusion of the study, nor was it in any of the examples of other possible explanations of that verse. If you have about 30 minutes I would reccomend checking it out. I found it enlightening and its explanation is rooted in the O.T. book of Micah.
 
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Definition_Christ

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DinoDillinger said:
Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
A puzzling verse, I found an interesting commentary on it.

http://www.seedofabraham.net/kingdomv.html

thoughts?
Click to expand...
Really cool .. I didn't get through the whole commentary yet, but so far it is very interesting. I love looking at the OT roots in the NT scriptures. Thank you for sharing that :D.
 
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Deadtosin

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#5
Matthew 11:11-18 KJV

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto and you have not lamented. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

lets go to to 11:12 again,
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent ones take it.

"There is a timeframe there.

it starts with John the Baptist “from the days of John the Baptist”

(Matthew 3:3)
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

11:13 “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John”

The kingdom of God graced the earth when it came, beginning with John the Baptist and Leaving with the Death of Christ both of which were violently executed by force. The Kingdom of God was here , and regarding that “the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.”

11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto the children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
 
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Deadtosin

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#6
I see you joined Christian Chat on my birthday this year. Thats kinda cool
 
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Deadtosin

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#7
that last was at pickles, I didn't mean to make it public, thought it'd be a message
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

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Deadtosin said:
Matthew 11:11-18 KJV

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto and you have not lamented. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

lets go to to 11:12 again,
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent ones take it.

"There is a timeframe there.

it starts with John the Baptist “from the days of John the Baptist”

(Matthew 3:3)
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

11:13 “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John”

The kingdom of God graced the earth when it came, beginning with John the Baptist and Leaving with the Death of Christ both of which were violently executed by force. The Kingdom of God was here , and regarding that “the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.”

11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto the children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Click to expand...
That is one of the explanations given, but to me it doesn't really add up. I mean the prophets were killed also so it wouldn't seem like it had just started. Did you check out the link?
 
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Deadtosin

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#9
I did look at the link, but I strongly believe that it is the way the passage is intended. To truly understand a verse in the BIBLE one must look at the surrounding verses to "set the stage" so to speak.
 
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Deadtosin

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#10
notice how he begins that verse with John... Matthew 11:11 is dedicated soley to the Righteousness of John the Baptist concluding that None that are born of women is greater than John... and then starts the verse 12 "and from the days of John.. then it brings in until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Then to ensure our understanding he goes straight back to John 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied UNTIL John"
and then it says that this is Elias, which was for to come. Then the He that hath ears to hear let him hear.. After which point the Gospel directs it's attention on our lost generation, wandering the streets as though we had no parents.
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

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Jul 28, 2009
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Well the way the way the verse is structured it implies that the violent take the kingdom of heaven by force. The word take there doesn't make sense to me if it is talking about persicution. The verse implies that the violent are getting into the kingdom, which would seem to be a contridiction.
 
I

Irish76

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#12
Thank you for posting this Dillinger, I hadn't focused on the language of Matthew 11:12 until now and in re-reading it and the surrounding verses I got a powerful insight that I'd like to share:

Here's the bottom line first, then I'll try to explain how I came to that conclusion:

I believe the soul of John the Baptist was that of Elias. Yes, the Elias of the Old Testment.

Here's my explanation:
Start with what Jesus said in the preceding verse, Matthew 11:11 (KJV) :
"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Now, the last word in this verse, he, is not referring to John the Baptist but rather, them that are born of women.
So, stated another way: The least person in the kingdom of heaven is greater than any person born of women.
That's why the word notwithstanding is there, which kind of means...now take John the Baptist out of the equation for just a second because he is different...or...don't include him in what I say next.

Now come to Matthew 11:14 (KJV) :
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come"
I believe that Jesus is saying that this is the soul of Elias (from the Old Testament) which was taken from Heaven and placed in the body John the Baptist.
Which gives explanation to the kingdom of heaven suffering violence: Matthew 11:12 (KJV) :
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
At the point in time when Jesus said the above verse, John the Baptist had not yet been killed, but he had been taken by violent force and imprisoned having broken no law. I think Jesus knew when He said the above verse that John would be killed but that is beside the point.

As a sidenote, consider the story of Elisabeth, John the Baptist's mother, in the Gospel of Luke (Luke 1:5-80). An angel of the Lord when speaking to Mary, the mother of Jesus, said:
Luke 1:36-37 (KJV) :
"And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible."
Luke 1:41 (KJV) :
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb;"


 
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Deadtosin

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#13
I like that Irish, that is very insightful. Thanks for sharing that
 
pickles

pickles

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Apr 20, 2009
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DinoDillinger said:
That wasn't the conclusion of the study, nor was it in any of the examples of other possible explanations of that verse. If you have about 30 minutes I would reccomend checking it out. I found it enlightening and its explanation is rooted in the O.T. book of Micah.
Click to expand...
I was asking as I never open stuff in posts. Our computer tends to freak out when we do. Ill check the scripture though. God bless, pickles
 
pickles

pickles

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Apr 20, 2009
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Deadtosin said:
that last was at pickles, I didn't mean to make it public, thought it'd be a message
Click to expand...
Hey, deadtosin, give me a chance to read the scripture. There was ??? at the end of my statement. I just dont open info in posts as my computer gets wiggy when we do. I have read this scripture often, thankyou for showing it as post. Alot of it makes sence but I still believe there is alot more to it. Im just not ready to say untill Im sure in Jesus as to its message. Smiles and God bless, pickles
 
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