Message to Laodicia

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Jul 12, 2012
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#1
Hi friends! I have a passage from Scripture I would like to discuss with anyone who wants to. The passage is Revelation 3:14-22:

[SIZE=+0]14[/SIZE] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[SIZE=+0]15[/SIZE] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[SIZE=+0]16[/SIZE] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[SIZE=+0]17[/SIZE] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[SIZE=+0]18[/SIZE] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[SIZE=+0]19[/SIZE] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
[SIZE=+0]20[/SIZE] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
[SIZE=+0]21[/SIZE] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
[SIZE=+0]22[/SIZE] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

First, does anyone believe that the church today is the church of Laodicia. If so, what are your thoughts about the three things that Jesus says the church needs.
  1. Gold tried in the fire
  2. white raiment that thou mayest be clothed
  3. Eyesalve

I would like to hear thoughts on these things :)
 
Jul 12, 2012
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#3
2 Timothy 3:16-17
[SIZE=+0]16[/SIZE] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SIZE=+0]17[/SIZE] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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#4
A deeper thought to me here is: Is there a lesson that we can learn from our individual lives from the different churches written to in Revelation 3. Setting all of the pretrib post trib, different types of interpretations aside, what is the Bible saying here? I believe we get so caught up in the different frameworks and understandings around us that we lose our bearings as it were, and forget about the simple fact that the Bible speaks to each one of us every day. There has to be a message in this for everyone and it speaks to each person in their individual situation, no matter what background they may come from. Afterall, did Jesus not say: [SIZE=+0]22[/SIZE] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#5
I don't see church history falling neatly into to 7 distinct periods.

It might be easy to make a case for the contemporary Church being the Laodicean Church age. and the second half of the 19th century being the Philadelphian Church age. It would be much harder to make a clear case for the other 5 churches in Rev chapters 1-3.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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#6
Ok, what might God be trying to say to us through this passage? What does the passage mean?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#7
Hi friends! I have a passage from Scripture I would like to discuss with anyone who wants to. The passage is Revelation 3:14-22:

[SIZE=+0]14[/SIZE] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[SIZE=+0]15[/SIZE] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[SIZE=+0]16[/SIZE] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[SIZE=+0]17[/SIZE] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[SIZE=+0]18[/SIZE] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[SIZE=+0]19[/SIZE] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
[SIZE=+0]20[/SIZE] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
[SIZE=+0]21[/SIZE] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
[SIZE=+0]22[/SIZE] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

First, does anyone believe that the church today is the church of Laodicia. If so, what are your thoughts about the three things that Jesus says the church needs.
  1. Gold tried in the fire
  2. white raiment that thou mayest be clothed
  3. Eyesalve

I would like to hear thoughts on these things :)
So there is a lot more, but I want to give a few passages rather than too much commentary for now.

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

No half commitments, a stren but true warning. Also this same type of principle is shown here:

Luke 9:62, "But יהושע said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the reign of YHWH.”

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Mat 7:13-14, “Enter in through the narrow gate! Because the gate is wide – and the way is broad – that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter in through it. Because the gate is narrow and the way is hard pressed which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve Yah and mammon/money.”

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Proverbs 17:3, “A refining pot is for silver and a furnace for gold, But יהוה tries the hearts.”

Psalms 146:1-10, “Praise Yah! Praise יהוה, O my being! While I live I praise יהוה; I sing praises to my Stremgth while I exist. Do not put your trust in princes, In a son of man, in whom is no deliverance. His spirit goes out, he returns to his earth; In that day his plans perish. Blessed is he who has the Strength of Ya‛aqoḇ for his help, Whose expectancy is in יהוה his Strength. Maker of the heavens and earth, The sea and all that is in them, Who is guarding truth forever, Doing right-ruling for the oppressed, Giving bread to the hungry. יהוה releases those who are bound, יהוה opens the eyes of the blind, יהוה raises those who are bowed down, יהוה loves the righteous. יהוה guards the strangers, He lifts up the fatherless and widow, But the way of the wrong ones He turns upside down. יהוה reigns forever, O Tsiyon, Your Elohim to all generations. Praise Yah!”

Matthew 13:10-11, “And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” And He answering, said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the secrets of the reign of the heavens, but to them it has not been given.”

Isaiah 29:13-16, “And יהוה says, “Because this people has drawn near with its mouth, and with its lips they have esteemed Me, and it has kept its heart far from Me, and their fear of Me has become a command of men that is taught! Therefore, see, I am again doing a marvelous work among this people, a marvelous work and a wonder. And the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their clever men shall be hidden. Woe to those who seek deep to hide their counsel far from יהוה, and their works are in the dark; they say, “Who sees us?” and, “Who knows us? How perverse of you! Should the potter be reckoned as the clay? Should what is made say of its Maker, “He did not make me”? And what is formed say of Him who formed it, “He did not understand?”

Psalms 119:17-21,”Do good to Your servant, Let me live and I guard Your word. Open my eyes, that I might see Wonders from Your Torah. I am a sojourner in the earth; Do not hide Your commands from me. My being is crushed with longing For Your right-rulings at all times. You rebuked the proud, cursed ones, Who are straying from Your commands.”

Isaiah 35:3-10, “Strengthen the weak hands, and make firm the weak knees. Say to those with anxious heart, “Be strong, do not fear! See, your Mighty One comes with vengeance, with the recompense of Yah. He is coming to save you.” Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf be opened. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb sing, because waters shall burst forth in the wilderness, and streams in the desert. And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water – in the home for jackals, where each lay, grass with reeds and rushes. And there shall be a highway, and a way, and it shall be called “The Way of Set-apartness.”(Ps 77:13) The unclean does not pass over it, but it is for those who walk the way, and no fools wander on it. No lion is there, nor any ravenous beast go up on it, it is not found there. But the redeemed shall walk there. And the ransomed of יהוה shall return and enter Tsiyon with singing, with everlasting joy on their heads. They shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.”

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 9:12-13, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]hearing this, said to them, “Those who are strong have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and not offering.’ (Hos 6:6) For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 12:3-17, “For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives."4, You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin."5, And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], nor faint when you are reproved by Him,"6, for whom [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.” (Pro 3:11-12) "7, If you endure discipline, Yah is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom a father does not discipline?"8, But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are illegitimate and not sons."9, Moreover, we indeed had fathers of our flesh disciplining us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?"10, For they indeed disciplined us for a few days as seemed best to them, but He does it for our profit, so that we might share His apartness."11, And indeed, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but grievous, but afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."12, So, strengthen the hands which hang down and the weak knees, Isa 35:3."13, and make straight paths for your feet, lest the lame be turned aside, but instead, to be healed."14, Pursue peace with all, and pursue apartness without which no one shall see the Master."15, See to it that no one falls short of the favor of Yah, that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, by which many become defiled,"16, lest there be anyone who whores, or profane one, like Ěsaw, who for a single meal sold his birthright. 17, For you know that afterward, when he wished to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it with tears.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

If it is or is not the current era it sure applies to this and every eram but particularly now is possible IMO.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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#8
The idea of buying gold seems like a sacrifice is involved. We must give something in order to purchase it, but this gold has been tried in the fire. I wonder what the currency to buy that gold is. I know I need it. Honestly, I am Laodicia personally. One minute I am strong for the LORD, and the next I fall miserably short. This back and forth. I wonder if luke warm is like what James talks about in chapter 1. Double Mindedness. The cure for this is possible though! Praise Jesus! Somehow I need to get that gold that is tried in the fire! But what does the Bible say that gold represents? Jesus parables are always full of symbols. I liked the thoughts that you had Hizikaya! Especially the point about not serving two masters. Great point about lukewarmness!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#9
Can someone tell me how to increase the size of the reply with Quote form. At one time, it was large but not it is a small window.
Don't rem, How I change it the first time?

Thanks
Blade
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#10
Can someone tell me how to increase the size of the reply with Quote form. At one time, it was large but not it is a small window.
Don't rem, How I change it the first time?

Thanks
Blade
Drag the size of the window with your mouse on the lower right corner where it is striped.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#11
God's truth is always there,and down through the ages people have believed the truth,but I believe that the messages to the 7 Churches is the way the Church age will go in influence among many people,which at the first Church they left their first love,maybe not loving people as they should by way of supporting them by not helping them with their needs,which when the Church first started they had all things common,and shared,and sold the things that were not a necessity,and distributed to those who had need.

And then it talks of the synagogue of Satan in the second Church,and Satan's seat in the third Church,which could be when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity,for it is obvious when they embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their false religious ways,but held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures,and they influenced many people.

Then the fourth Church which had a problem addressed of eating meat sacrificed to idols.Then the fifth Church where the Catholic Church was not influencing as much,and the problem was that their works were not found perfect before God.

Then the sixth Church that Jesus did not address a problem,and said that those of the false Christianity would come and worship at their feet,and He would deliver the saints in the truth from the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell upon the earth,which can only apply to the future when the nations come together,and say Peace and safety,but the saints will not be deceived by that for they will know it is not the operation of God,and will lead to the beast kingdom where the world rebels against God.

Also the sixth Church would be a big influence at that time,which appears as the Protestant movement.

Then the seventh Church where they are interested in money,and material things,the prosperity Gospel,that neglects the poor and needy,which we see going on now in influence among many people.

The true Church,the synagogue of Satan,and the prosperity believers are all around at the end time,but the prosperity Gospel,and those that believe that God blesses with money,and their wants,are a big influence at this time.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,405
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#12
No to your first point.. .an honest evaluation...all 7 churches in Asia written unto by John encompasses every type of church that will be on the planet until the Lord returns....even unto this very day we find these types of churches all through society...they do not represent ages IMV.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#13
Ok, what might God be trying to say to us through this passage? What does the passage mean?
He is probably not speaking to us at all since the letter was specifically addressed to someone else... in a totally different time. We can learn some things, but it is a bit arrogant to think He was speaking to us, of all the 50 generations who have lived and died before we were even born.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#14
First, does anyone believe that the church today is the church of Laodicea.

First of all one must distinguish between "the Church" (all the redeemed of the Lord) and the churches of this world, particularly those of the Western world. A good case can be made that Christendom today resembles the church at Laodicea, since the Lord presents them to us as those who claim to be Christians but in reality they are not.
If so, what are your thoughts about the three things that Jesus says the church needs.
1. Gold tried in the fire

2. white raiment that thou mayest be clothed

3. Eyesalve
We should note carefully that the things which are missing from these people would be found in genuine Christians, but are absent from this church. Therefore they are wretched (without the joy of the Lord), miserable (because they are still in their sins and guilt), poor (because they do not have the riches of God's grace), blind (because they do not have the illumination which comes from the Holy Spirit), and naked (because they do not have the robe of Christ's righteousness upon themselves). In brief, they are unregenerate. Hence Christ stands outside the doors of their hearts and knocks for admittance.

Gold tried in the fire = the good works of the saints which will be acceptable at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

White raiment = the imputed righteousness of Christ with which the saints are clothed.

Eyesalve = the gift of the Holy Spirit, who opens the eyes of the saints to spiritual truth and reality, and leads Christians into all truth.


 
Jul 12, 2012
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#15
Faith seems to symbolize gold: 1 Peter 1: 7.

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

So what does it mean to buy something. We have to give something in exchange to buy something, and we are buying it from Jesus. How does that occur? What can we offer Jesus in exchange for faith?


 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#16
He is probably not speaking to us at all since the letter was specifically addressed to someone else... in a totally different time.
It would be a huge mistake to assume that the Lord is NOT speaking to Christians today through this letter. While it is addressed to a church in the first century, the application of for all times and for all churches, particularly churches in the West today, and particularly the mega-churches and those which preach the prosperity gospel, and tickle the ears of those who attend, rather than preach repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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#17
Hi Nehemiah, where are the scriptural references for the three items. I would like to see them. I had never thought of gold tried in the fire as being good works. Do you have an Scripture to support this? Incredible thoughts on this. I like the part where you talked about, the wretched, not having the joy of the Lord. This seems to be a heart call for us as Christians to pray to run into those who are wretched, so that they too can find the joy of the Lord!
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#18
the Lord is NOT speaking to Christians today through this letter.
I agree. See, I can change the meaning of someone's post, just like you did with mine. (It is neat what you can make others appear to say when you only show a portion of their posts. Thanks for showing me how..... you've obviously had a lot of practice.)
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#20

First of all one must distinguish between "the Church" (all the redeemed of the Lord) and the churches of this world, particularly those of the Western world. A good case can be made that Christendom today resembles the church at Laodicea, since the Lord presents them to us as those who claim to be Christians but in reality they are not.

A good case can be made that you don't have clue what you are talking about:

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Christ is saying he loved those folks and is warning them to repent

We should note carefully that the things which are missing from these people would be found in genuine Christians, but are absent from this church.
We should note that Christ is the one judging here - I don't think he handed the job off to you.