Modern Chaos: The Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements (5:35)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#1
Modern Chaos: The Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements
5 min 35 secs

Segment taken from the Film 'Of Chaos and Confusion: The Modern Church':
-> Of Chaos and Confusion: The Modern Church (Full Film) - YouTube (2 hours, 29 mins)

[video=youtube;nezpNOBDOwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nezpNOBDOwM[/video]

A Megiddo Films Production
Produced, Written and Directed by Paul Flynn
Running Time: 2.5 hours
Copyright 2012 Paul Flynn.
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
link -> http://megiddofilms.org/
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
88
0
#2
Copeland, Dollar, Duplantis, Meyers, Haggee, Osteen, students of Oral roberts. i use to listen to these preachers all of the time, they have even helped me in my faith. i don't listen to them much any more. oral roberts was even a guest at a church i use to attend, i couldn't believe the security they had at the church. thought to myself where is the faith now? why all the security? Just wanted to say these teachers have helped me along the way.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,258
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
#3
Modern Chaos: The Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements
5 min 35 secs

Segment taken from the Film 'Of Chaos and Confusion: The Modern Church':
-> Of Chaos and Confusion: The Modern Church (Full Film) - YouTube (2 hours, 29 mins)
I believe that America has lost her way and that the confusion and degeneration of traditional
solid Bible based Christianity into the modern WoF prosperity gospel along with music
and entertainment is truly a major sign of how much we are all in the last of last days.

And the irony, no really the tragedy, of this is that millions of liberal "Christian" Americans
have been sold a lie - that they are all going to be raptured up and suffer and escape
the terrible tribulations coming upon the whole world.

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers,
disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce,
despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Timothy 3:1-5

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Timothy 4:3-4
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
7,060
1,100
113
#4
The real issue here is what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit gives gifts/manifestations of the Spirit as He wills, including speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, prophesying, words of knowledge, the working of miracles, and healing. The Bible does not teach that these gifts are temporary. There is certainly no Biblical case that one could make at all, referencing scripture to argue that the Spirit no longer gifts individuals to heal or work miracles. There are theories, but no scripture to support that at all, not even a relevant prooftext.

Historically, the early church was not cessationist. The second century church was not cessationist. Even critiques of Montanism affirm that the gift of prophecy is for the church. After Montanus died and Montanists became cessationists, the church criticized them for their cessationist beliefs. Montanists may have been the first cessationists that claimed to be Christians.

The late second century Christian, Irenaeus criticized those who rejected the operation of the gift of prophecy. He considered it to be a characteristic of the heresies.

I would agree that there are some Charismatic teachings that are flaky. I think there are some con artists out there, too. But the Biblical stance is that the Spirit gives spiritual gifts as He wills. That scripture has not been rescinded or canceled. The actual teaching in the Bible is more authoritative than man-made theories about the role of the Bible.
 
Sep 25, 2017
417
3
0
#5
Paul in his travels met a group of men and asked unto what were you baptized. Let me ask you the same question.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,966
113
#6
DD,

please, why you are 'asking' such a personal question? POINT???, just curious...
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,652
595
113
#7
I recently became aware of this film and watched it. In places it's very good and educational. I especially learned a lot about the origins of the neo-Evangelical movement. Billy Graham was always an ecumenist and was used by neo-Evangelicals to help their cause. Only in his later years did he start proclaiming it publicly.

But there were people early on who knew it. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, for example, was invited by Graham in 1963 to chair the first World Congress on Evangelism. Lloyd-Jones agreed to do so if Graham would stop sharing the stage with liberals and Catholics. Graham refused and the rest, as they say, is history.
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
866
195
43
#8
I think there is Chaos in several Movements.

One Movement has taken the English Translation of Proverbs 4:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil, and turned that into God made people specifically for Hell.

But, when you look at the Actual Hebrew from the Tanakh, 4 The Lord made everything for His praise-even the wicked man for the day of evil, you clearly see that even on the Day of Judgement, the Wicked will PRAISE GOD/ACKNOWLEDGE God, because His sole Purpose was for His Creation to Praise Him.

And for those who think God created Both Saint and Fuel for Hell, they gain this misinformation from a man whose Character is well known for things No True Example of God would ever have been.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,785
369
83
#9
The real issue here is what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit gives gifts/manifestations of the Spirit as He wills, including speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, prophesying, words of knowledge, the working of miracles, and healing. The Bible does not teach that these gifts are temporary. There is certainly no Biblical case that one could make at all, referencing scripture to argue that the Spirit no longer gifts individuals to heal or work miracles. There are theories, but no scripture to support that at all, not even a relevant prooftext.

Historically, the early church was not cessationist. The second century church was not cessationist. Even critiques of Montanism affirm that the gift of prophecy is for the church. After Montanus died and Montanists became cessationists, the church criticized them for their cessationist beliefs. Montanists may have been the first cessationists that claimed to be Christians.

The late second century Christian, Irenaeus criticized those who rejected the operation of the gift of prophecy. He considered it to be a characteristic of the heresies.

I would agree that there are some Charismatic teachings that are flaky. I think there are some con artists out there, too. But the Biblical stance is that the Spirit gives spiritual gifts as He wills. That scripture has not been rescinded or canceled. The actual teaching in the Bible is more authoritative than man-made theories about the role of the Bible.
Well, what are you referring to as 'the church' that believes prophecy ceasing as heresy?

Roman catholic and orthodox denominations were persecuting and killing Christians from independent Christian churches. A whole lot of them were sound in the faith.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
7,060
1,100
113
#10
Well, what are you referring to as 'the church' that believes prophecy ceasing as heresy?

Roman catholic and orthodox denominations were persecuting and killing Christians from independent Christian churches. A whole lot of them were sound in the faith.
You can look up Irenaus, known as bishop of Lyons, who died in the early 200s.
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
866
195
43
#11
Finished the movie finally.

I can see those claiming that which is perfect has come to mean completion of Scripture, has completely forgotten and missed out, the end of Scripture ends when all Prophecy has been fulfilled. Scripture is completed when every Prophecy has been fulfilled. Sad to believe that Leaders in the Church, False Prophets, could make a bold statement like the completion of Scripture, and CHOOSE to ignore that Prophecy within the Scripture had not ended.

Evidently, the False Teachers must be full blown preterist. They are the only ones who believe in such garbage.

Has the Second Coming happened?
Has the Day of White Throne Judgement happened?
Has this Earth passed away for a New Jerusalem?
Has the Beast made its appearance?
Has the Mark of the Beast been issued?
There are over 30 major prophecies left. But those False Teachers are claiming the Scriptures have been Complete?
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
866
195
43
#12
If Completion has come, why are we fulfilling Daniel's Prophecy that Knowledge will be Increased?

The Verse used to claim Tongues has Ceased also mentions Knowledge will Vanish Away.

Has Knowledge Vanished?
Absolutely Not!
If Knowledge is more prevalent Today and Increased, how can Tongues be Ceased?

The Ignorance is "Real" towards those misinterpreting, Perfect has Come, to mean the Bible is completed and Written!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,443
5,259
113
#13
If data obtained through computerized studies is included as knowledge, then that prophecy is here now, and has been since the 1960-s When data about the earth , stars and planets increased the knowledge banks by incredible amounts. This was known then, taken for granted since, and steadily increased regardless.
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
236
70
28
canada
#14
And the irony, no really the tragedy, of this is that millions of liberal "Christian" Americans
have been sold a lie - that they are all going to be raptured up and suffer and escape
the terrible tribulations coming upon the whole world.
Attack the rapture all you like, we are not appointed to wrath but to ascape all these things , as the scriptures say.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,652
595
113
#15
Yeah, we'll be raptured before God's final wrath is poured out, but not before that. The pretribulation rapture is a gimmick to sell books.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
7,060
1,100
113
#16
Attack the rapture all you like, we are not appointed to wrath but to ascape all these things , as the scriptures say.
Do you think the saints Revelations mentions that come out of the great tribulation are appointed unto wrath or are they appointed to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
866
195
43
#17
If data obtained through computerized studies is included as knowledge, then that prophecy is here now, and has been since the 1960-s When data about the earth , stars and planets increased the knowledge banks by incredible amounts. This was known then, taken for granted since, and steadily increased regardless.
Agreed 100%
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
866
195
43
#18
Knowledge is access to things to learn from by reading and discovery and then retaining that information equals Knowledge. And Knowledge and access to more Knowledge is greater today than ever before. So if Knowledge is evident, then so is Prophecy and Tongues Active this very moment. Which proves that Movie to be horribly Incorrect and misrepresented by those claiming to be followers of God!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
17,001
8,501
113
#19
Yeah, we'll be raptured before God's final wrath is poured out, but not before that. The pretribulation rapture is a gimmick to sell books.
That is about as shallow an assessment as you can get. But since that's your take, perhaps you should write another similar book and make some money.
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
236
70
28
canada
#20
Do you think the saints Revelations mentions that come out of the great tribulation are appointed unto wrath or are they appointed to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do you beleive the scriptures ? Yes or no ?