my last argument for obedience

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J

jasonj

Guest
#1
I have over the past few days or so given a lot of scripture, that continues to be "refuted" by the ever popular "gospel of Grace" before you begin scoffing or setting up your rebuttal. Please do consider these scriptures that do in fact support the many others ive annoyed the grace alone crowd with, I say in the sight of Christ, my intention is good. since many peeps wont accept anything before the resurrection as applying to Christians ( wich I find ridiculous) I for 27 minutes focused on the latter parts of the n.t. scriptures, here are some pretty clear ones I hope you will at least consider, not for myself, but simply because they are Gods word.

3 john 1:11 " dear friends, do not imitate what is evil but what is good, anyone who DOES what is good is from God, anyone who does what is evil has not seen God."

2 john 1:6-9 " and this is Love THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. as you have heard from the beginning His command is that you WALK in Love. ( what is Love? pretty clear,)....v8 watch out that you don't LOSE what you have WORKED for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD AND DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST DOES NOT HAVE GOD...whoever DOES continue in the teaching has both the father and the son."

1john 5:3 " this is LOVE FOR GOD : TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS, and His commands aren't burdensome."

ude 1:4 " for certain men whos condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in amoung you, They are godless men who change the Grace of Our God into a liscence for immorality and deny Jesus Christ Our only soverien Lord"
(see 2nd peter 3:15-16)

2nd peter 3:14 " so then dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, MAKE EVERY EFFORT to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with Him..see through v15, and think why would he connect a statement about making effort in Christ, and then state that pauls letters are hard to understand and are easily distorted, and it leads to destruction.

see also 2 peter 2:3-10 v 5 effort. verse 10 DO these things....

James chapter 2. 1st peter 2:15-16, chapter 1:14-16.....james chapter 1. same stuff....

Hebrews chapter 10 :26-29. trampling underfoot the blood by continuing on in sin do these people deserve punishment it is asked? if they were punished for disobeying the mosaic law, how much more for disobeying the Law bought with the Blood of Christ? actually think apart from the popular grace stuff, just go to Gods word for you, looking for the truth. the truth is what sets us free. more scripture? yeah...its everywhere in the word. colossians 3:5-9...lol I have a lot more but imna let it Go. Ifeel I have made a solid argument that obeying the word of Jesus Christ, is the most important part of Our Life, and also that there is work in Christ. I also Know the scriptures about faith and Grace, but this is the purpose of all of that, to obey the word of Jesus...that is to walk in the truth. God bless you, righteous is who we are in Jesus, that's why repentance and action are essential. Grace is what made us able, all by Grace that made us new.......but were new for a purpose is the thing. I wont argue this any further, I think if someone seriously is opposed, Ive left a good measure of evidence you need to explain away. all wisdom and truth Belong to God, wisdom is His. it is Jesus Christ.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
13,388
1,190
113
64
#2
1 Samuel 15:22Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.

I agree that over and over again throughout God's word He has asked us to obey and with His Holy Spirit He helps us to do that... Jesus said go and sin no more... A different use of words to say obey don't you think? I realize that we alone are not able to keep God's law, but Jesus did it for us and He enables us to do so with His Holy Spirit... our hearts are made new and we want to turn away from sinning.... Thank God for helping us to do so.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#3
1 Samuel 15:22Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.

I agree that over and over again throughout God's word He has asked us to obey and with His Holy Spirit He helps us to do that... Jesus said go and sin no more... A different use of words to say obey don't you think? I realize that we alone are not able to keep God's law, but Jesus did it for us and He enables us to do so with His Holy Spirit... our hearts are made new and we want to turn away from sinning.... Thank God for helping us to do so.

amen to that Thank God in every single way, may the name of Christ be glorified eternally, and surely as God Lives, His name will be eternally glorified because of all he has done to Love us home. honestly, its all by Grace, Grace is only misunderstood by the worlds definition. Obedience offends the old us, just the word. sinners are rebels we despise authority in our hearts because of what satan imparted to us in the garden. obedience is a perfect word to me, because it implies that we understand our submission and reliance on The Lord. we just submit and accept what Hes done and then Have been empowered to do what we are supposed to. we couldn't, but Jesus made us new, now we can, we just need to treasure the word and accept it as the truth even if it convicts our behavior that we don't like thinking about giving up, the word does the rest if we believe the truth and cling to it
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,270
338
83
#4
2nd peter 3:14 " so then dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, MAKE EVERY EFFORT to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with Him..see through v15, and think why would he connect a statement about making effort in Christ, and then state that pauls letters are hard to understand and are easily distorted, and it leads to destruction.

see also 2 peter 2:3-10 v 5 effort. verse 10 DO these things....
Yap, 2 Peter was written to those who have obtained precious faith though the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ and are partakers of divine nature. They are saved, hence what they needed is to diligently add from their faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and above all is charity. Now if these things in you and abound, God hath blessed you! :) Here is the full passage if you like

2 Peter 2:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#5
Yap, 2 Peter was written to those who have obtained precious faith though the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ and are partakers of divine nature. They are saved, hence what they needed is to diligently add from their faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and above all is charity. Now if these things in you and abound, God hath blessed you! :) Here is the full passage if you like

2 Peter 2:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
amen thanks for the addition, I had so many more scriptures I didn't want to write a book lol so I'm glad that you posted these scriptures, helps make the point that we are to be active and make effort, strive for add to the grace message.......its all the Grace of God to save us from death, make us new, now that we received that Grace and Have that new nature, we need to constantly excersize it with Use and application, this is what cleanses away the stains and purifies the heart distancing us from the disposition of adam, and conforming us to the Likeness of Christ. Have to get away from denying what is really for us to know and apply
 
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#7
Here is the Son making free

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And Paul says,

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience
unto righteousness?

And Jesus says,

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:
but the Son abideth ever.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed
.

And Paul continues back in Romans saying,

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked,
that ye
were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine which was delivered you
.

Romans 6:18
Being
then made free from sin,
ye became the servants
of righteousness.

Romans 6:20
For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.

You can see the progression, from a servant of sin (as Jesus speaks of the same) to the Son making you free of the same, and then how it speaks of "when ye were" the servants of sin "and how now" being made free from sin also.

Obedience to the form of doctine delievered is mentioned in Romand 6:17 and grace os given for the obedience of the faith.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#8
Here is the Son making free

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And Paul says,

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience
unto righteousness?

And Jesus says,

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:
but the Son abideth ever.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed
.

And Paul continues back in Romans saying,

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked,
that ye
were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine which was delivered you
.

Romans 6:18
Being
then made free from sin,
ye became the servants
of righteousness.

Romans 6:20
For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.

You can see the progression, from a servant of sin (as Jesus speaks of the same) to the Son making you free of the same, and then how it speaks of "when ye were" the servants of sin "and how now" being made free from sin also.

Obedience to the form of doctine delievered is mentioned in Romand 6:17 and grace os given for the obedience of the faith.


absolutely could not disagree with any scripture you offered, or your words wich added insight to them. Thank you for adding. and God bless you in the abundance of Christs provision
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,941
265
83
#9
Obedience shouldn't be an argument, but a prerequisite for any Christian. Show me a Christian who puts obedience on a shelf, and I'll show you a hypocrite. It doesn't mean we never fall short, but that we should always be striving to walk the walk. We are rewarded for our good works, but in the absence of obedience, it might be tough to accumulate any points with the man upstairs.. jmo
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#10
Obedience shouldn't be an argument, but a prerequisite for any Christian. Show me a Christian who puts obedience on a shelf, and I'll show you a hypocrite. It doesn't mean we never fall short, but that we should always be striving to walk the walk. We are rewarded for our good works, but in the absence of obedience, it might be tough to accumulate any points with the man upstairs.. jmo

Yes, i cant myself label anyone else, But i completely agree about obedience. I feel there is a lot of power in understanding How deeply He suffered for our sin, willingly because He Loves us that Much even though man had already abandoned Him, we chose death in the garden, having been warned. and what Was the result? Jesus suffering immeasurable indignity, pain and suffering, and the death of a common criminal. I will follow God, and hope all who call on His name will do the same, if for no other reason, than to Honor the price He paid for my eternal freedom and Life
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#11
I don't think you'll find one person of the "grace crowd" that has said we aren't to be obedient to God. The disagreement may come when you start emphasizing the law. Remember, we don't serve in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit.

Romans 7:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
 

JustWhoIAm

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2016
1,015
18
0
#12
It really does not get any clearer. We talk our walk or we walk our talk.
 
N

NewWine

Guest
#13
I don't think following Christ is about rules, obligations or anything of the sorts. I think it's about relationship or fellowship. The beginning is fear of God....reverence. It's what brings us to our knees. Then we begin learning. As we learn and apply what we learn, we begin to develop wisdom (touch a hot burner and get burnt....learn not to touch hot things again....wisdom gained). As we get closer to God through our learning we begin to learn the reasons behind the consequences of sin, as well as, of the true loving nature of God. (spoiler alert: it's not our observance of what is or isn't sin that matters. but God's)
As we learn of this loving nature the more we want to spread this love (God is Love after all). The more we wish to spread God (love) to the world, we begin to resemble God, through our selfless ways.
It's not about what we can or can't/should or shouldn't do to please God....it's about what we choose to do or not do that matters. We love God so we CHOOSE to give to those in need. We love God, so we Choose to not get angry when someone else offends us (because God didn't get "angry" with us in our time of sin against Him). We love God, so we yearn to be as much like Him as we can be. Because God loves us, we learn how to show Love (God) to others. It's a process. That's why it says in Jeremiah that I, the Lord, search the hearts and give to each based upon his ways. Each person is in a different place of understanding and wisdom, so each person has to make their own choices based upon this understanding. I am not in your place to receive your gifts of wisdom, nor would I wish to be, so why does it matter to others what place in my process I am walking currently? Tomorrow I will walk in a new place as will you. Perhaps one day we will be walking step for step with one another, but until that happens, the best we can do is walk along, and hope we have a chance to uplift one another instead of tearing each apart with our judgements of their process.
Anyways the late night ramblings of a very weary insomniac.
Peace....
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#14
I don't think you'll find one person of the "grace crowd" that has said we aren't to be obedient to God. The disagreement may come when you start emphasizing the law. Remember, we don't serve in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit.

Romans 7:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The spirit is bound to the word of Christ, to obey in the spirit is to obey in truth, obedience is essential, to serve in the spirit is in accordance with His Laws being written on our hearts, not letters ben, the Law is spirit now, there are no tablets of staone anymore. has nothing to do with letters, Has to do with Jesus words, they are not Letters Ben, they are spirit and Life, and far more binding than letters on stone. The spirit Loves obedience. and yes, the " gospel of Grace" definitely minimizes obedience, repentance, sin ect. its one principle, it is not the beginning and end. its Like a pencil in our hands now, we couldn't write before, Gods grace Gave us a pencil and paper.........what will i write now that I have the ability? i couldn't write till God made me able, but now, I am required to follow Jesus, or I am spitting on Grace and have no faith. that's the truth of it. Grace is not cheap, not free. Grace was purchased with the pain, suffering, tears, blood, shame, mocking, spitting on, beating, and finally the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Grace cost Jesus EVERYTHING, that's grace ben. What Jesus did for you and I on the cross. the only right acceptance of that, is to honor His words. any "gospel" that minimizes our commitment to FOLLOW Him, is either incomplete, or not of God. The thought that we don't HAVE to obey Jesus, will never come from Gods spirit, sorry, but i choose the truth, id rather tell Jesus how i failed with all of my heart set on honoring His suffering, than to accept inj my life, what put Him on the cross. pretty clear scripture up top ben. t"he Law" is mosaic, jewish, stone letters, dead, meant to kill........There is a law of Life now, and we are to obey it.


I'm not opposed to the atonement its power, righteousness by faith is power, but Faith Moves and acts. I'm not arguing this anymore. youll end up at obedience to Christ, Just because you accept Gods word in your heart. when you commit to do..............well, it brings Gods word to Life. God Bless Ben. No hard feelings, I know grace, and obedience folk can disagree a lot of written chats n comments can be taken in the wrong spirit. Honestly not lookin to offend or hurt ur faith or anything. God is good
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#15
The spirit is bound to the word of Christ, to obey in the spirit is to obey in truth, obedience is essential, to serve in the spirit is in accordance with His Laws being written on our hearts, not letters ben, the Law is spirit now, there are no tablets of staone anymore. has nothing to do with letters, Has to do with Jesus words, they are not Letters Ben, they are spirit and Life, and far more binding than letters on stone. The spirit Loves obedience. and yes, the " gospel of Grace" definitely minimizes obedience, repentance, sin ect. its one principle, it is not the beginning and end. its Like a pencil in our hands now, we couldn't write before, Gods grace Gave us a pencil and paper.........what will i write now that I have the ability? i couldn't write till God made me able, but now, I am required to follow Jesus, or I am spitting on Grace and have no faith. that's the truth of it. Grace is not cheap, not free. Grace was purchased with the pain, suffering, tears, blood, shame, mocking, spitting on, beating, and finally the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Grace cost Jesus EVERYTHING, that's grace ben. What Jesus did for you and I on the cross. the only right acceptance of that, is to honor His words. any "gospel" that minimizes our commitment to FOLLOW Him, is either incomplete, or not of God. The thought that we don't HAVE to obey Jesus, will never come from Gods spirit, sorry, but i choose the truth, id rather tell Jesus how i failed with all of my heart set on honoring His suffering, than to accept inj my life, what put Him on the cross. pretty clear scripture up top ben. t"he Law" is mosaic, jewish, stone letters, dead, meant to kill........There is a law of Life now, and we are to obey it.


I'm not opposed to the atonement its power, righteousness by faith is power, but Faith Moves and acts. I'm not arguing this anymore. youll end up at obedience to Christ, Just because you accept Gods word in your heart. when you commit to do..............well, it brings Gods word to Life. God Bless Ben. No hard feelings, I know grace, and obedience folk can disagree a lot of written chats n comments can be taken in the wrong spirit. Honestly not lookin to offend or hurt ur faith or anything. God is good
No worries you aren't offending me or hurting my faith at all, haha. :) If your intention is to be obedient to Christ, thats awesome. I think people ought to be obedient to God and what I mean by that is an ongoing and real relationship with God. Hearing His voice and following His lead. Don't worry, if you are His child you will be sanctified and that is a wonderful thing.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#16
I don't think following Christ is about rules, obligations or anything of the sorts. I think it's about relationship or fellowship. The beginning is fear of God....reverence. It's what brings us to our knees. Then we begin learning. As we learn and apply what we learn, we begin to develop wisdom (touch a hot burner and get burnt....learn not to touch hot things again....wisdom gained). As we get closer to God through our learning we begin to learn the reasons behind the consequences of sin, as well as, of the true loving nature of God. (spoiler alert: it's not our observance of what is or isn't sin that matters. but God's)
As we learn of this loving nature the more we want to spread this love (God is Love after all). The more we wish to spread God (love) to the world, we begin to resemble God, through our selfless ways.
It's not about what we can or can't/should or shouldn't do to please God....it's about what we choose to do or not do that matters. We love God so we CHOOSE to give to those in need. We love God, so we Choose to not get angry when someone else offends us (because God didn't get "angry" with us in our time of sin against Him). We love God, so we yearn to be as much like Him as we can be. Because God loves us, we learn how to show Love (God) to others. It's a process. That's why it says in Jeremiah that I, the Lord, search the hearts and give to each based upon his ways. Each person is in a different place of understanding and wisdom, so each person has to make their own choices based upon this understanding. I am not in your place to receive your gifts of wisdom, nor would I wish to be, so why does it matter to others what place in my process I am walking currently? Tomorrow I will walk in a new place as will you. Perhaps one day we will be walking step for step with one another, but until that happens, the best we can do is walk along, and hope we have a chance to uplift one another instead of tearing each apart with our judgements of their process.
Anyways the late night ramblings of a very weary insomniac.
Peace....

How is anyone tearing anyone apart lol. The bible is not cryptic on obedience. its what Killed adam and eve...disobedience. in the last chapter of revelation, there is a warning for those who practice sin. its never ever in the bible anywhere, that obedience to Jesus, because of Jesus, in Jesus is not the most important part of a Christians Life it is always has and will be. motivation can differ, god will never approve disobedience, ever.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,270
338
83
#17
Yes, i cant myself label anyone else, But i completely agree about obedience. I feel there is a lot of power in understanding How deeply He suffered for our sin, willingly because He Loves us that Much even though man had already abandoned Him, we chose death in the garden, having been warned. and what Was the result? Jesus suffering immeasurable indignity, pain and suffering, and the death of a common criminal. I will follow God, and hope all who call on His name will do the same, if for no other reason, than to Honor the price He paid for my eternal freedom and Life
Hi JasonJ,

I appreciate your passion to obey God and that's correct, else we are nothing but as religious man not bridleth his tongue James 1:26. God love us much though we sinned which resulted to death of all mankind as death passed from all men (Romans 6:23). Because we cannot saved ourselves from the spiritual death. Christ became the passover lamb, He died, buried and raised to life to give us eternal life and when you accept Christ by faith as personal Saviour he has given us eternal life. Now, eternal life has already been given to us, we are now a children of God (John 1:12) and became babes in Christ, the bible says as a "newborn babes desireth the sincere milk of the word that ye may grow thereby" (1 Peter 2:2). Part of our growth as a Christian is obeying Christ's commands. THUS, our faith is the root and our obedience to God and Christ is the fruit as "ye shall knew them by their fruit."

God bless you,

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#18
It really does not get any clearer. We talk our walk or we walk our talk.

we are obligated to walk what we talk is the thing also. we say Lord Lord, but Is He the Lord? wisdom is proved right by her actions.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#19
How is anyone tearing anyone apart lol. The bible is not cryptic on obedience. its what Killed adam and eve...disobedience. in the last chapter of revelation, there is a warning for those who practice sin. its never ever in the bible anywhere, that obedience to Jesus, because of Jesus, in Jesus is not the most important part of a Christians Life it is always has and will be. motivation can differ, god will never approve disobedience, ever.
Morality doesn't sanctify, God does. That is something the Lord informed me of, that it is He who sanctifies His children. Its His process. I think with that in mind, in speaking of obedience, rules, and what not, we should be careful in how we present it so that we do not impose our impatience of someone's lack of perfection on to someone and make them feel condemned or terrible. VVe need to extend grace and love to people and let the Lord work on them.

Obedience is a necessity in our walk, but this obedience is found in intimacy.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#20
Hi JasonJ,

I appreciate your passion to obey God and that's correct, else we are nothing but as religious man not bridleth his tongue James 1:26. God love us much though we sinned which resulted to death of all mankind as death passed from all men (Romans 6:23). Because we cannot saved ourselves from the spiritual death. Christ became the passover lamb, He died, buried and raised to life to give us eternal life and when you accept Christ by faith as personal Saviour he has given us eternal life. Now, eternal life has already been given to us, we are now a children of God (John 1:12) and became babes in Christ, the bible says as a "newborn babes desireth the sincere milk of the word that ye may grow thereby" (1 Peter 2:2). Part of our growth as a Christian is obeying Christ's commands. THUS, our faith is the root and our obedience to God and Christ is the fruit as "ye shall knew them by their fruit."

God bless you,

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
God bless you also. the thing with obedience to me is that its really the purpose of all of it. if adam and eve had obeyed......if the isrealites had obeyed.....okay they were corrupted, deceived. But We belong to the Truth of God, the only One, were new lets be new change our thinking. obedience is offensive to a heart that isn't at repentance, the word obey Hurts a sinner because it shows us our true nature of rebellion before Jesus, when a sinner accepts the righteousness of Christ, we accept the divine nature that obedience is a delight to. is what i don't understand the resistance to, what a gift we have been Given. I have received my talents, I want to hear well done because i put it to work Like the Lord said to do. I don't want to be the lazy worthless servant who gets thrown into the dark......not gonna bury my one talent in the ground from fear, no way, I'm gonna purchase a huge house and fill it with brothers and sisters in Christ, so I can have something to Give my Lord who suffered and died when He returns. Matthew 25:14-30.