Not By Works

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Feb 24, 2015
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Lying

I was told by a contributor that I did not know way sin was or how to define it.

Now lying is purposely saying something that is not true, in a way that suggests
it is.

Problems occur where this can be interpretation or miss-understanding.

One way to avoid such a thing is to reflect back what someone is saying so that
it can be confirmed one has understood it correctly.

The sad truth is too many lie about so much, it is a wonder they know what truth
is. They also have no moral reference points, so lying is not a sin they need to
resolve, and being driven by anger, revenge and hatred is not an issue.

I came across this first with muslims, and now here.

What really annoyed many was reflecting back what people were saying but with
insights which made the ideas appear flawed. Now I would hold they were flawed
but for them this was unkind, unloving and for some evil.

It this arena of ultimate truth, heaven and hell, Jesus, sin and death, there is not
really a safe place or a way of saying things gently.

For instance emotionally picking on someone for their approach and not addressing
the theology is playing the man not the ball. If corrected about this, turning a tirade
on the individual involved is not any better.

And saying what someone believes and shares is something else, different words and ideas
is just lying.

Equally creating a belief system which as self contradictatory positions cannot be defended
and pointing them out is just shinning a light on something that does not work.

Equally being told one needs to repent of something, but not what is meaningless, or that
unbelief is some doctrine means they do not know Jesus is absurd. There is no compromise
with heresy or sin, shinning a light does that to these realities.

So this is my take on these issues. I hope it helps, but probably not, because you just have
to defend the indefensible and not face God. Trouble is you can avoid me, but not Him.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Going to bed. Through much trouble we will find the Lord and His ways,
because He desires it. So never give up or loose hope in our glorious King
and the cross, Amen.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
When men make idols of self, then God allows them to fall into delusion.

Makes me sad. Can't even eat the cake Magenta gave me.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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[SUP]Jesus says:

17 [/SUP]“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

- he came to fulfill, not to destroy.
- there is still more to fulfill - the redemption of His purchased prize, by His blood.

Romans 8v4

[SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
John 3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The new birth. Our Spirit comes alive. Nicodemus (type representing the old law covenant) speaking with Jesus (who brings in the new covenant). Life in the Spirit.

Life in the Spirit can accomplish what the Law in the Flesh could never do.

New Birth. Spirit comes alive within a new believer.

If we by the SPIRIT put to death the misdeeds of the body, we will live. The power is found in His Grace.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
The Law is good if used rightly. If it is used to show how much we need a savior. How without Him we would fail and be condemned to hell.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
When we obey the Law through the empowering of the Spirit,we are still but unprofitable servants.

How many people believe that?

Or do you think God owes you something?
 
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limey410

Guest
The bible is plain to read and understand. No need to complicate it.

You see what has crept into the church is a mistaken identity crisis. We are calling the good things bad, and the bad things good.

We are calling Sin good - <by implication saying that its no longer a factor>
We are calling the Law bad - you just need to scroll through these forums to get a wealth of evidence on this.

Lets see what Romans 7 says (together):

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. <this is where the case of mistaken identity arises> [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

There are two players in the above stage play. Sin and the Law. Can you discern which is the Good Guy and which is the Bad guy?

So I once again post Romans 3v31....

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Ironic you start at vs 10. Go back and start from vs 1, you seem reasonably intelligent, you should be able to put this into its proper context.

Also, sin is evil, it took the death of the Messiah to resolve the issue of sin. It took an excruciating amount of pain and suffering. I do NOT call sin good. I fully understand its weight. I also fully understand the amount of love it took for God to forgive me of my sins and then resurrect me from spiritual and eternal death.

I live in the full appreciation of what HE accomplished for me. This stiff opposition against my walk of faith with my God being enough, sickens me, when it is written off as me being in favor of sin.

I trust in His finished work, I trust Him. I have everything I need. If I die of starvation or am eaten by wild animals, I already have everything! I trust that He will finish a work in me.
I believe in that God, I am not so concerned with living a life under the bondage of law, or with the knowledge of good and evil, or right and wrong. I live in the Spirit under the New Covenant, and I am confident that He can properly guide my path.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Luke 17 v 5-10
5And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. 6And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Quite a few blasphemers on this thread, aren't there? Just saying.. :/
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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When we obey the Law through the empowering of the Spirit,we are still but unprofitable servants.

How many people believe that?

Or do you think God owes you something?
No. I covered that above.

Here let's look at alternative translations of Romans 3v31 ....now that we have established that the Law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus is the new covenant (Rom 8) and new birth (John 3) we are in.

NLT
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

NIV
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

AMP
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then nullify the Law by this faith [making the Law of no effect, overthrowing it]? Certainly not! On the contrary, we confirm and establish and uphold the Law [since it convicts us all of sin, pointing to the need for salvation].

NASB
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then nullify [SUP][w][/SUP]the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

RSV
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.




The law is not our enemy. We are just powerless to observe it in the flesh. We can uphold the law in the Spirit.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; [SUP]8 [/SUP]and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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"We"? More like "thee."

No one here is doing any of the above.
He is another one that embellishes, falsely accuses and implies we say things that we do not say.....and I agree with your above assessment about the three or four you named....nothing but a waste of time......because they are very, very deceitful in the embellishment, implications and false accusations of what we at and believe!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
"We can uphold the law in the Spirit."

Yeah, assuming that is true....do you realize that Jesus still calls you an UNPROFITABLE SERVANT?
 
L

limey410

Guest
[SUP]Jesus says:

17 [/SUP]“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

- he came to fulfill, not to destroy.
- there is still more to fulfill - the redemption of His purchased prize, by His blood.

Romans 8v4

[SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
He states that he came to fulfill. He didn't say partially fulfill, or a little fulfill. But fulfill.....ergo, it is ALL fulfilled.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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You all do realize this is what is going on in here with the "law boys" right?

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Not one of these "law boys" are keeping the law, and not one of them even knows what they are even talking about. Paul already lined all that out for us above. Surely they are sitting in their blended poly under-roos eating pork, telling us how they observe the law and that we should do the same.
 
L

limey410

Guest
You all do realize this is what is going on in here with the "law boys" right?

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Not one of these "law boys" are keeping the law, and not one of them even knows what they are even talking about. Paul already lined all that out for us above. Surely they are sitting in their blended poly under-roos eating pork, telling us how they observe the law and that we should do the same.
Sometimes they will pick and choose the easy ones, and then maybe add a few in there that they know they won't break.
 
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Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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"We can uphold the law in the Spirit."

Yeah, assuming that is true....do you realize that Jesus still calls you an UNPROFITABLE SERVANT?
So what if He does? Do I break the law purposefully because He calls me an unprofitable servant? Or do I uphold the law?

What would you do?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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No. Obedience to the law cannot save you in and of itself. Only faith in Jesus Christ can save you. There is no confusion about this.

Now.....we have a new law in Christ - called the law of the Spirit. See Romans 8v2
From the beginging it was the law of the Spirit . (no theories) Whosoever has not the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God they do not belong to Him

Christ’s obedience to the law does save us .Its where his grace comes from. Chrsit's finished work of the law.

The law alone according to His work of faith alone does save us

The word law needs to be defined. The whole Bible is called the “book of the law” the gospel of our salvation. It has no theories. Every word is law.

For instance the “perfect law” alone converts our soul giving us simply one His understanding. So we are saved buy the law because Christ according to the “law of faith”. (faith without works has no spirit life to give) . Christ by faith finished all the work fulfilling its every requirement

No work according to the law, no salvation. Where there is no law there can be no trespass.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
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You all do realize this is what is going on in here with the "law boys" right?

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Not one of these "law boys" are keeping the law, and not one of them even knows what they are even talking about. Paul already lined all that out for us above. Surely they are sitting in their blended poly under-roos eating pork, telling us how they observe the law and that we should do the same.
You are free to engage in sin if you so choose. You are free to serve your flesh if that's what you want. That's your business.