Not By Works

[Chris1975]

You all do realize this is what is going on in here with the "law boys" right?

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Not one of these "law boys" are keeping the law, and not one of them even knows what they are even talking about. Paul already lined all that out for us above. Surely they are sitting in their blended poly under-roos eating pork, telling us how they observe the law and that we should do the same.

[h=1]Romans 6New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Dead to Sin, Alive to God[/h]6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he who has died has been freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

[h=3]From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Chris1975]

You are kicking against the Goads.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are free to engage in sin if you so choose. You are free to serve your flesh if that's what you want. That's your business.

Paul nailed you and your response is to simply assert lies and implied falsities upon others?

You have no clue about the law you assert or try to affirm. In the text given, it shows you to be a false teacher, and that you are.

But back to your above response, you're bearing false witness upon another person. IOW you're lying. John 3:7.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are kicking against the Goads.

No, I'm kicking against the goats.

 

[Ariel82]

Romans 4
1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

****

DO YOU BELIEVE SALVATION IS A GIFT OR IS IT YOUR DUE?

 

[Chris1975]

No, I'm kicking against the goats.

You are offended at the word of God. I am just giving you scripture. Plain for all to see.

You don't like it. Because you do not have a love for the truth. For if you loved the truth these words would be life to you.

So its between you and God. It's none of my business. I just put the scriptures out there.

 

[Chris1975]

On an aside note....what does Rep Power mean next to each persons Avatar on the forum?

 

[Ariel82]

Fyi: preacher4truth is against sin.

He is especially against the sin of unbelief and the teaching of a false gospel of works salvation...

 

[preacher4truth]

...You...have a love for the truth....

There, I edited that for you to make it truthful. John 3:7

 

[Ariel82]

On an aside note....what does Rep Power mean next to each persons Avatar on the forum?

Folks can give you rep for posts

They used to,have cute sayings but not anymore.

 

[limey410]

Romans 4
1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes ina him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

Yes and AMEN!!
Abraham was counted as righteous apart from works.
It had nothing to do with his works, obedience, disobedience, it had to do with him believing God. (Faith).
Adams fall, had to do with him NOT believing God.
Our resurrection/salvation has to do with us believing God and in His finished work. Our need for His grace and mercy.

When you rely on the Law for your righteousness, you will fail. You will always have to come back to Gods grace and mercy. Full reliance on Him.

Its so freakin' simple. Plain truth, simple faith. Anything other than full reliance and trust in Him, is a rejection or unbelief of Him.

 

[Ihsomiet]

So what if He does? Do I break the law purposefully because He calls me an unprofitable servant? Or do I uphold the law?

What would you do?

Jesus is perfect... But I'm not, and neither is the law. But since He freed me of the curse, I am now enabled to observe it. Our job is to sanctify ourselves in obedience to Him until He comes back to complete our salvation. So we serve Him in this, giving Him the credit, the profit, the Glory... Decreasing so that He may increase. Even now, we are still capable of great sin, but we choose not to, and lean on Him for comfort. Without him, we are nothing, with Him, we choose to humble ourselves in His example. This is not something that happens overnight and is a life long process. Therefore, the perfect work is patient endurance. (James 1:4). Here is the patience of the saints —those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus . (RV. 14:12). Other versions of RV 14:12 use endurance or steadfastness or perseverance over patience.

 

[Ariel82]

So what if He does? Do I break the law purposefully because He calls me an unprofitable servant? Or do I uphold the law?

What would you do?

You really don't get it....read slowly...

If
You
FULFILL and UPHOLD all the laws,

JESUS STILL CALLS YOU AN UNPROFITABLE SERVANT.

If you disobey, then you would be called a DISOBEDIENT SERVANT.


Me, I follow the Holy Spirit and leave the "law keeping" to the experts.

I know as long as I listen to Him, He will lead me to still waters and give me rest.

 

[Chris1975]

Fyi: preacher4truth is against sin.

He is especially against the sin of unbelief and the teaching of a false gospel of works salvation...

I'm not preaching a works salvation.

Broadly my beliefs, which can all be backed up by scripture into a harmonious whole:
- saved by grace through faith (unmerited - gift from God). This faith has as EVIDENCE Godly works, and is EVIDENCE of true faith.
- our new birth by the grace of God allows us to live in victory over sin. The bible says so (irrespective of how many Christians are either succeeding or failing on this front). The bible says so. So its true and possible to those with faith. Even faith the size of a mustard seed.
- in this new life (old man crucified, putting on the new man), we are to by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body.
-we are created for Godly works prepared beforehand by our Lord.
- all of this requires our co-operation with the plan of God. We are not ROBOTS. We have a choice with the free will restored to us.
- sin is particularly dangerous, as there is a progression. That is why repentance is still a very necessary step, even in a believers life.
- unaddressed sin can lull a believer away from the purity of faith in God. You begin to Quench the Spirit 1 Thessalonians 5v19.
- this leads to unbelief (falling away - plenty scriptures showing evidence - you just don't want to recognise this)
- when sin is fully grown it brings forth death. Unbelief.
- at this point, its impossible to renew again to repentance that person who has treated the blood covenant with Christ as a common thing.

In a nutshell.

So, please, I dont know how many times I've been accused on this forum about pushing a works based salvation gospel. That's because of people either not really reading what I'm saying, or instead filling in the gaps. I however do not believe in OSAS.

 

[Chris1975]

Off to bed 3 am here. Will respond to other questions directed at me in the morning . zzzzzzz

 

[limey410]

You are offended at the word of God. I am just giving you scripture. Plain for all to see.

You don't like it. Because you do not have a love for the truth. For if you loved the truth these words would be life to you.

So its between you and God. It's none of my business. I just put the scriptures out there.

We can all give scriptures to "bolster" our bias or point of view, it is our maturity in Christ that helps give us a clearer view of the testimony of the writer of the scripture.

An overall picture of what the writer intended to say, who He was intending to say it to and why. Not all scriptures were written to us, or for us, or you, or me.

They are a testimony of what God has done throughout the history of humanity.
They give us an insight into the character of the Author. Be more concerned with the Author and what He speaks to you through His Spirit that dwells in you.

There are so many different doctrines and denominations in the Christian faith, they can lead us away from the truth if we blindly follow them.

 

[preacher4truth]

Off to bed 3 am here. Will respond to other questions directed at me in the morning . zzzzzzz

No one is asking you questions, you're just not that knowledgeable. What we are doing is exposing your heresies and pointing out your lies placed upon others along with your straw man arguments. John 3:7.

 

[garee]

You all do realize this is what is going on in here with the "law boys" right?

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Not one of these "law boys" are keeping the law, and not one of them even knows what they are even talking about. Paul already lined all that out for us above. Surely they are sitting in their blended poly under-roos eating pork, telling us how they observe the law and that we should do the same.

Its not the law that’s the problem its their desire to be teachers of it without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make”confident assertions”.

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Their law coming from a false zeal thinking they were zealous toward God came after the oral traditions of men called the law of fathers as "commandments of men". By that law of men they made the faith of Christ, as the work of Christ without effect. By it they persecuted the church.

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the "perfect manner of the law of the fathers", and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. Act 22:3


By those letters oral traditions of as a law, of the fathers they made "confident assertions" as thier false zeal.

 

[preacher4truth]

Its not the law that’s the problem its their desire to be teachers of it without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make”confident assertions”.

Um, no, you're thoroughly confused and are twisting the meaning. Either this is out of you being confused or it is purposeful.

 

[Ariel82]

I'm not preaching a works salvation.

Broadly my beliefs, which can all be backed up by scripture into a harmonious whole:
- saved by grace through faith (unmerited - gift from God). This faith has as EVIDENCE Godly works, and is EVIDENCE of true faith.
- our new birth by the grace of God allows us to live in victory over sin. The bible says so (irrespective of how many Christians are either succeeding or failing on this front). The bible says so. So its true and possible to those with faith. Even faith the size of a mustard seed.
- in this new life (old man crucified, putting on the new man), we are to by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body.
-we are created for Godly works prepared beforehand by our Lord.
- all of this requires our co-operation with the plan of God. We are not ROBOTS. We have a choice with the free will restored to us.
- sin is particularly dangerous, as there is a progression. That is why repentance is still a very necessary step, even in a believers life.
- unaddressed sin can lull a believer away from the purity of faith in God. You begin to Quench the Spirit 1 Thessalonians 5v19.
- this leads to unbelief (falling away - plenty scriptures showing evidence - you just don't want to recognise this)
- when sin is fully grown it brings forth death. Unbelief.
- at this point, its impossible to renew again to repentance that person who has treated the blood covenant with Christ as a common thing.

In a nutshell.

So, please, I dont know how many times I've been accused on this forum about pushing a works based salvation gospel. That's because of people either not really reading what I'm saying, or instead filling in the gaps. I however do not believe in OSAS.

It's a fine line.

So if you don't have "evidence" of your faith by good works to display, would God still allow you into Heaven?

I believe God is the author and the keeper of my salvation, so I don't "fall away" because He holds me in His hands.

I see his power transforming my life and how He works through me to change the lives of others around me.

The debate seems to be around it you believe in monoergism or synergism of salvation.