Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Jesus told her “go and sin no more”.

That’s what the scripture says.

No amount of “explaining away” what Jesus said will change that fact.
Do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time? I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
 
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Jeremiah74

Guest
John 1:1,2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.
2 He was in the beginning with Elohim.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen Elohim. The only brought-forth Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He did declare.

So who did Abraham, Moses and Jacob see?

John 8:58
58 Yeshua(Jesus) said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”
He was the one that was before Abraham

John 15:10,15
10 "If you guard My commands, you shall stay in My love, even as I have guarded My Father’s commands and stay in His love.
15 “No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, for all teachings which I heard from My Father I have made known to you.

John 15:22
“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

Isn't it possible Yeshua(Jesus) Is the one who gave the commands on Mt. Sinai.
Yeshua literally means Yahavah saves

So when He says " obey MY commands" we want to look for the words in red.
How many commands do you find in red to justifying all, if it was only 2 wouldn't he say my 2 commands?

Revelation 14:12
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 21:12
and having a great and high wall, having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve messengers, and names written on them, which are those of the twelve tribes of the children of Yisra’ĕl:

This is the Kingdom. Do you see a gate for the gentiles? NO..


I just don't understand how someone can say" I am a gentile, Gods Laws do not apply to me" and still expect to get into Gods Kingdom.

Sounds a lot like rebellion.

Ezekiel 12:1,2
1 And the word of יהוה came to me, saying,

2 “Son of man, you are dwelling in the midst of a rebellious house. They have eyes to see but they have not seen, they have ears to hear but they have not heard, for they are a rebellious house.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So How COME you are PROTESTING OBEYING THE SPEED LAWS so much?

What makes you think I’m protesting the speed laws?

I asked you to point out the word sin in the scripture and asked you why you were adding to God’s Word.


Did you know that’s what Eve did?

It caused her to justify her action of disobedience, which was eating of the fruit.


It seems you want to justify living a sinful lifestyle, which will cause you to not inherit the kingdom of God?

In other words, by you claiming that I am breaking speed laws, then you seem to think it’s ok for you to indulge in you sinful practices.


I’m here to show you, that you can live free from the bondage of sin, if you want to.


It takes putting forth the effort to do the things, that it takes to walk in truth as a child of God.

Walk according to the Spirit, rather than living your life ruled by the sinful desires of your flesh.


If the Lord can teach me to live this way, the He can teach anyone.


The first step is to humble yourself and to truly submit to God.


Are you baptized in the Holy Spirit?



JPT
 
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Jeremiah74

Guest
Did NOT the serpent tell Eve she didn't have to obey Gods commands?
seams to always be his theme.

If you think God does not care what you eat just ask Eve
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
1 john 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



james 2 :10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


galatians 2 16- Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.



2 corinthians 5 21
21- For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

romans 5 19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
 
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Jeremiah74

Guest
Ezekiel 13:9
And my hand shall be on the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and you shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

If Paul taught something other than Gods commands you have to throw him out.
he is a false Prophet.

Even tho I know he did nothing of the sort.
2 Peter 3:15-17
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

Why would someone listen to Paul over God or Yeshua(Jesus) anyway?

And for all you ant-Semitics out there if it was not for the Jews keeping the Tenak
We would have nothing!!
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The above describes the state of mankind, in a nutshell. Now the big question is how can man be saved from this state of hopelessness.
Is he able to use his intelligence to work out that the only way he can be saved is to repent and believe in the finished work of Jesus, for his salvation. Or does he depend on God to draw him to Himself by causing him to repent and believe.
These two opposing views have divided the Church for centuries.
The above scriptures would support the the latter view, that God does the work of salvation from the beginning to the end. That would mean that election and predestination are Biblicaly sound doctrines. It would hard to argue against them without ignoring a lot of scripture.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Do you understand how the righteousness of faith works?


God tells you to do something [you now have faith], and you do it; this is the righteousness according to faith.


It's that simple.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


God warned Noah of the coming destruction and to build an Ark.


Noah obeyed God, and demonstrated the righteousness according to faith.



Do you understand how faith is activated, and made "alive", able to produce a divine result?




JPT
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
romans 5

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,253
11,027
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By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

God warned Noah of the coming destruction and to build an Ark.

Noah obeyed God, and demonstrated the righteousness according to faith.
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Justifed by faith operates the same as the righteousness which is according to faith.

It's the same thing.

Justified means: to be declared as righteous.


God speaks to you and tells you to do something and you do it.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


God spoke to Abraham and told him to sacrifice his son, and Abraham obeyed.

Abraham was justified by faith.



Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is dead, and will not produce the intended divine result.



JPT
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning.
amen

well said dan
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Believe means commit, trust and obey.


Unbelief = Disobedience.


Same Greek word.


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV





JPT
 
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Jeremiah74

Guest
Thank you! NoNameMgee for reminding me of James.

James 1:22-25
22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

The Torah is freedom and sin is the burden

What Word is he referring ?
The Tanak (Torah and prophets)
News Flash.. The New Testament did not exist when he wrote this..
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,253
11,027
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Justifed by faith operates the same as the righteousness which is according to faith.

It's the same thing.

Justified means: to be declared as righteous.

God speaks to you and tells you to do something and you do it.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

God spoke to Abraham and told him to sacrifice his son, and Abraham obeyed.

Abraham was justified by faith.

Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is dead, and will not produce the intended divine result.
Through bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics, you are teaching salvation by faith PLUS WORKS. :(
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
Justifed by faith operates the same as the righteousness which is according to faith.

It's the same thing.

Justified means: to be declared as righteous.


God speaks to you and tells you to do something and you do it.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


God spoke to Abraham and told him to sacrifice his son, and Abraham obeyed.

Abraham was justified by faith.



Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is dead, and will not produce the intended divine result.



JPT
What do you believe separates those who believe and those who don't. Is one smarter, more intelligent, wiser or just willing to take a gamble in case there is a God. Or does God cause one to believe and cause the other not to believe. This is the question which divides the Church
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Believe means commit, trust and obey.


Unbelief = Disobedience.


Same Greek word.


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV





JPT
:unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure: ^=(n)

3748. hostis, hétis, ho ti
Strong's Concordance
hostis, hétis, ho ti: whoever, anyone who​
Original Word: ὅστις, ἥτις, ὅτι
Part of Speech: Relative Pronoun
Transliteration: hostis, hétis, ho ti
Phonetic Spelling: (hos'-tis)
Short Definition: whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever
Definition: whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever.​
4100. pisteuó
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust​
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.​



John 3:15-17
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.