Not By Works

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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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And i will add, humble beings
Yes, that is 2 interesting qualities of God. The most powerful Being in the universe. And at the same time, the most humble Being in the universe. Those that become like Him will have those same qualities or they will not be able to be in His kingdom.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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But if we are not saved until we are sanctified, and practical sanctification can take a life time, then we are not truly saved until we are practically sanctified, quite a while after we are positionally sanctified?
Hebrews 10:10
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will

Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
If this is required for salvation, A person would have to become so spiritually mature in christ that they have reached a point in thbeir life that that would not longer sin, no matter what the situation is. they would 100% always chose the right way.

This would leave about 100% of christians from ever getting to heaven, because no one can make this, And even if they could, it would leave all babes in chrsit out, All preteens and teens in christ out. and i do nto even know adult believers who have reached this level of sanctification (which by the way the bible calls glorification)

so, where does that leave us?
a point in thbeir life that that would not longer sin, no matter what the situation is. they would 100% always chose the right way. <-- that might also include being in hellfire being tortured by worms, while powerful temptations for resentment and bitterness is all time high, yet somehow "holy" and "above all" enough to ... wow, such is so mindbogglingly impossible, may I be forever thankful that we are saved by grace, not by works, not because of who we are, but because of who God is.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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But if we are not saved until we are sanctified, and practical sanctification can take a life time, then we are not
"truly saved" until we are practically sanctified,
quite a while after we are positionally sanctified?
Theologians refer to this as "ultimate sanctification", when we stand before Christ at the "Bema seat" for rewards of service in the "Body of Christ." We are always sanctified from the time we are born again to our glorification in heaven.

And we are saved the moment we are born again and throughout our Christian life. I have highlighted the part where you said, "we are not "truly saved", and this seems to be a stumbling point between you and I, "security of the believer." :)

There is not one point in time where we are not "saved and sanctified" otherwise we could not serve a "Holy God"
 
Mar 14, 2011
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But if we are not saved until we are sanctified, and practical sanctification can take a life time, then we are not truly saved until we are practically sanctified, quite a while after we are positionally sanctified?
Well then no one will ever be saved.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,277
4,008
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But if we are not saved until we are sanctified, and practical sanctification can take a life time, then we are not truly saved until we are practically sanctified, quite a while after we are positionally sanctified?
So we seek practical sanctification in order to justify positionally bring sanctified?

So we seek that in order to be saved?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Theologians refer to this as "ultimate sanctification", when we stand before Christ at the "Bema seat" for rewards of service in the "Body of Christ." We are always sanctified from the time we are born again to our glorification in heaven.

And we are saved the moment we are born again and throughout our Christian life. I have highlighted the part where you said, "we are not "truly saved", and this seems to be a stumbling point between you and I, "security of the believer." :)

There is not one point in time where we are not "saved and sanctified" otherwise we could not serve a "Holy God"
Thank you for the lesson on sanctification. I will have to think about what you and EG have taught me. I have heard it before but this brought it back and I thank you.

We will probably have to agree to disagree about some things, but it is nice to have a friendly Christian conversation with you.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Thank you for the lesson on sanctification. I will have to think about what you and EG have taught me. I have heard it before but this brought it back and I thank you.

We will probably have to agree to disagree about some things, but it is nice to have a friendly Christian conversation with you.
You are very welcome, and of course let the bible answer your questions.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,286
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But if we are not saved until we are sanctified, and practical sanctification can take a life time, then we are not truly saved until we are practically sanctified, quite a while after we are positionally sanctified?

ben, I have been telling you the TRUTH. HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE HE FORMED THE EARTH. HE knows who will be Faithful and who will fall away, before HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE. The old argument between Calvinist and Armenians is it Predestination OR Freedom to CHOOSE WHO YOU WILL SERVE, and few have ever realized that the TRUTH is not in those two opposite choices. The THIRD CHOICE is HE CHOSE US before HE formed the WORLD, because HE KNEW who would CHOOSE HIM without falling away. IT IS BOTH, and I am convinced that is the truth.

SALVATION IS IN THAT MOMENT OF TIME WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED, because HE knows every decision we will make before HE formed the WORLD. IT IS A DONE DEAL, before we made those DECISIONS, therefore the SAVED are those who genuinely CHOOSE to BELIEVE.

AFTER WE ARE SAVED, then ALL of the Decisions about being SANCTIFIED WILL be made.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

If we are Truly Born Again:
Why DO WE WANT TO BE SANCTIFIED?
Because we are GOD's Children, and we WANT to be like our Heavenly Daddy.
If we Please Him, some day HE will reward good behavior,
and SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD, IT IS A FREE GIFT.
If we Do No Please Him, HE will give us a good spanking.

So all you Armenians and Calvinist, go ahead and throw your STONES,
But that is what the HOLY SPIRIT has put on my heart to BELIEVE.
 

PurpleCandles

Active member
Jun 23, 2018
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Didn't God lead me to this poem just in time. I hope it helps. :)

I was shocked, confused, bewildered
as I entered Heaven's door,
Not by the beauty of it all,
by the lights or its decor.

But it was the folks in Heaven
who made me sputter and gasp-
the thieves, the liars, the sinners,
the alcoholics, the trash.

There stood the kid from seventh grade
who swiped my lunch money twice.
Next to him was my old neighbor
who never said anything nice.

Herb, who I always thought
was rotting away in hell,
was sitting pretty on cloud nine,
looking incredibly well.

I nudged Jesus, 'What's the deal?
I would love to hear Your take.
How'd all these sinners get up here?
God must've made a mistake.

And why's everyone so quiet,
so somber? Give me a clue.'
'Hush, child, ' said He 'They're all in shock.
No one thought they'd see you.'

Judge NOT.

Author Unknown
(Though possibly written by either the worst sinner or
the most thankful person in heaven, or both!)

Leaking Pen
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Well then no one will ever be saved.
Yes, our entire lifetime we pursue practical sanctification and then at the end, Jesus finally saves us with his grace and that sanctifying
grace lifts us up to a brand new level and we are now ready to be ultimately sanctified after our resurrection, and enter into the KOG.

I just believe that during that practical sanctification problem, we can choose to renege on God and in fact fight him. Plenty of Christians have gone that route. In that case the grace of Christ will not save us and we will lose our salvation and not be practically or finally ultimately sanctified. So we have a difference that I would like to continue to pursue, in a friendly discussion. Thanks.
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
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Yes, our entire lifetime we pursue practical sanctification and then at the end, Jesus finally saves us with his grace and that sanctifying
grace lifts us up to a brand new level and we are now ready to be ultimately sanctified after our resurrection, and enter into the KOG.

I just believe that during that practical sanctification problem, we can choose to renege on God and in fact fight him. Plenty of Christians have gone that route. In that case the grace of Christ will not save us and we will lose our salvation and not be practically or finally ultimately sanctified. So we have a difference that I would like to continue to pursue, in a friendly discussion. Thanks.
Think about what your saying,

If we do not earn grace by staying the course, we will lose grace and as sch lose the GIFT of salvation,

Now think about what grace is and what you just suggested.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
Yes, our entire lifetime we pursue practical sanctification and then "at the end, Jesus finally saves us"with his grace and that sanctifying
So we have a difference that I would like to continue to pursue, in a friendly discussion. Thanks.
Hi benhur, we are saved at the beginning of our "New Birth" when we are born again -- do you believe this?

So it appears that you are still working for your salvation never knowing if you are saved until the end, this is not biblical ben. Security of the believer is supported many times by the bible, sorry you do not believe this wonderful truth.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, "now is the day of salvation."

Romans10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

God bless
 
Oct 31, 2015
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But if we are not saved until we are sanctified, and practical sanctification can take a life time, then we are not truly saved until we are practically sanctified, quite a while after we are positionally sanctified?
Yes. Salvation comes as an end result of a life of faith.


6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-8

Those who continue in the faith to the end will be saved.


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.


JPT
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
Yes, our entire lifetime we pursue practical sanctification and then at the end, Jesus finally saves us with his grace and that sanctifying
grace lifts us up to a brand new level and we are now ready to be ultimately sanctified after our resurrection, and enter into the KOG.

I just believe that during that practical sanctification problem, we can choose to renege on God and in fact fight him. Plenty of Christians have gone that route. In that case the grace of Christ will not save us and we will lose our salvation and not be practically or finally ultimately sanctified. So we have a difference that I would like to continue to pursue, in a friendly discussion. Thanks.
I have never seen you so far removed from, "The Gospel" than this post, it is a pity you have no eternal security for the salvation God has provided for you. You need to study about, "The Eternal Security of the Believer." Google it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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And who are we, but servants of the Most High God.
Amen...the words of Jesus...more proof that works or service does not save-->After we have done all we can do for Christ to consider ourselves lowly "doulos" bond slaves only doing what we have been commanded to do....