Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
I posted this in another thread but will paste it here to let you know my story.
. . .
One thing I did become sure of was that the doctrine of OSAS was false. This is clearly taught in 2 Pet 2:20-23
. . .


Another thing my Bible study convinced me of is that Baptism is necessary for salvation and it forgives sins. You will of course cite the thief on the cross. He did not have the opportunity for Baptism so he received the Baptism of desire. God is greater than his commands and so he saved the thief. That Baptism is necessary for salvation is no where more clearly stated than in Mk 16:16
. . .


Another verse is Acts 2:38

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

. . .

Continue....



Wow, you took what is Simple, and made it COMPLICATED. Welcome aboard, to a Catholic Brother in Christ. However, I will show you the Simplicity that is in the CHRIST.

The Baptism that HE refers to, is NOT WATER BAPTISM. Immersion is not limited to water, but rather when one is Immersed into the Spiritual Body of Christ, THAT IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES. The IMMERSION that SAVES, IS NOT Christian Water Baptism, how do I know:

1 Peter 3:20-21 (HCSB)
20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
12 For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-7 (HCSB)
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling—
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.
7 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah’s gift.


ALL have been IMMERSED by the HOLY SPIRIT, into the SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. AND ALL Certainly includes the Thief on the Cross.

How do I know we have to be IMMERSED into the Spiritual Body of Christ?

Romans 6:3-4 (ESV)
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 1:9 (HCSB)
9 God is faithful; you were called by Him into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 3:26-27 (NASB)
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.


No, Water Baptism DOES NOT SAVE, but Spiritual Baptism into the Spiritual Body of Christ, DOES SAVE, the Moment you first BELIEVE.


Yes, Water Baptism is important, and should be one of our First Steps in Our Walk of OBEDIENCE, AFTER you were REALLY BORN AGAIN, that happened as the moment you first Believed.

I had better explain what BORN AGAIN actually means.

I came to Christ, Mourning over my utter sinfulness. I mourned for hours as guilt ridden wave after wave washed over me about my whole lifestyle. I was begging Him to FORGIVE ME, over and over again. I was prone face down on my bedroom floor about 5:00 in the morning; and I had the MOST VIVID DREAM or only Vision I ever had. I was on my KNEES at the foot of the Cross Begging HIM to forgive me, and every sin I ever committed was like another one pound weight pulling down on HIS arms; and there were so many of them. I NOTICED THE NAILS WERE THROUGH HIS WRISTS, EVEN THOUGH EVERY PICTURE THAT I EVER SAW, THEY WERE IN HIS PALMS. (Years later I learned that Jews consider the Wrists to be part of the Hand, and that is the only place where the Nails would not pull through HIS flesh.) I looked up with my arms raised, through my tearing eyes, and I saw blood drop from each of HIS wrists. It splashed on my forearms, and I could FEEL the warmth of that blood, and I KNEW I WAS FORGIVEN.

That is where the Dream or Vision ended. KNOWING THAT HIS BLOOD FORGAVE ME. BUT IN THAT INSTANT, the HOLY SPIRIT CAME INTO MY HEART, HE instantly birthed my dead human Spirit into Eternal Life, as HE immersed my body into the spiritual body of Christ, and HE poured GOD's LOVE into my Heart.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


No I am not saying that Dreams or a Visions, will be the norm, but Evidence of having your once dead human spirit, coming to eternal life, WILL BE THE NORM; and that happens from day one on. I knew there was something DIFFERENT in me. I had a total TRUST in JESUS, that was not their before, the Hunger for HIS WORD, and PEACE WITH GOD, are the first things that I noticed. Then as I got GOD's Word IN ME, it began to change me from the inside out. I used to curse worse than anybody; the after getting into the WORD for a few weeks, I hid my thumb with a hammer, and all that came out of my mouth was "Dog Gone It!" Also about that same time, I KNEW God wanted me to quit smoking, but I actually argued with GOD, "Why should I quit, as long as I enjoy it?" Then one morning I sat up in bed, lit my first cigarette of the day, AND IT TASTED HORRIBLE! Then the thought went through my head, "What's your excuse now DUMMY!" That was my last cigarette, from a pack and a half a day, to ZERO.

No my infant baptism did not SAVE ME, BUT the Holy Spirit immersing me into the Spiritual Body of Christ, IS THE BAPTISM THAT DID SAVE ME. The Bible that once was the most boring book I owned, became the most exciting book I could read. I was Extremely hungry to hear they Word TAUGHT, and instead of daydreaming through 15 minute Sermons, I was EAGER TO HEAR EVEN MORE. I found a BIBLE Teaching Church, where the Sermons were one hour long, and it seemed like a half hour or less, because those one hour sermons were SO INTERESTING. Yes, even my Mom accused me of Leaving the Church, but I knew I was where HE WANTED ME.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
I do not know the verse but it seems like I remember the Holy Spirit coming on people after they were baptized in water. Here is an entry on Baptism from Harpers Bible Dictionary
Baptism


baptism, rite involving water. The term is derived from a Greek word meaning ‘to immerse in or wash with water’ (Mark 7:4). Washing rites characterize priestly preparation for offering sacrifice in the ot (Exod. 40:12-15). On the Day of Atonement, the high priest bathes both before and after his offering (Lev. 16:4, 24). Visitors to the Temple should not enter the inner courts without washing hands and feet (t. Kelim I.6). Water washings are linked not only with religious purity but also with concern for sinfulness and moral purity (see Isa. 1:16-17; Jer. 4:14; Ezek. 36:25). More domestic versions of these concerns are found in Jewish ablutions in Jesus’ time. John 2:6 speaks of large stone jars that hold water ‘for purification’ (see Mark 7:2-4). John’s baptism and the ablutions of the Qumran covenanters belong to this tradition of cultic and moral ablutions. Jews also apparently performed baptisms of proselytes as part of the purification of new covenant members (m. Pesahim VIII.7; Eduyyot V.2).


Baptism in the nt begins with John’s baptism, which was a prophetic call to repentance and forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4). When Jesus is baptised, however, it is understood quite differently: it is not for sin (Matt. 3:13-15); rather it is a theophany (i.e. a self-revealing of God) in which Jesus is identified as ‘Beloved Son’ and commissioned as the herald of God’s kingdom (Mark 1:10-11; see Isa. 42:1-9). Christian baptism of converts retained the sense of rites of purification (1 Peter 3:21) as well as adoption as God’s children. Paul speaks of God pouring his Holy Spirit into converts’ hearts, enabling them to say ‘Abba, Father’ (Gal. 4:6; Rom. 8:15-17). This baptism was in some sense to Christianity what circumcision was to Judaism. John 3:3-5, in fact, makes baptism—not circumcision—the formal entrance rite into the covenant community (see Col. 2:11-12).


The interpretation of Christian baptism was fluid in the first century. At Corinth it was compared to Israel’s exodus through the sea and its eating of the manna in the desert (1 Cor. 10:1-4). In other places it was compared with Noah’s escape from God’s wrath on sinners (1 Pet. 3:21). It was also compared with Jesus’ death and resurrection; Christians symbolically die to their sins and former lives, a death they share with Christ, and are buried with him; as they rise from baptism in purity, they share the new life brought by Jesus’ resurrection (Rom. 6:1-4). Hence baptism may be compared to a new birth (John 3:4-5).


Although adults were generally baptized, there is a suggestion in Mark 10:13-16 that infants were also baptized. The argument rests on the term ‘hinder’ (Gk. kōlyō), which may have been part of the technical terminology of baptism: Jesus tells his disciples not to ‘hinder’ the children from coming to him; compare the language of the eunuch in Acts 8:36 who asks, ‘what is to prevent (Gk. kōlyō) my being baptized?’ See also John the Baptist; Proselyte; Purity; Sacraments. J.H.N.





Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row and Society of Biblical Literature. (1985). In Harper’s Bible dictionary (1st ed., pp. 92–93). San Francisco: Harper & Row.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Revelation 3:20 suggest that if it feels like salvation requires or initiative even if God initiate it first, take the initiative

or some would put it as: open the God d-cuss-word door!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
I do not know the verse but it seems like I remember the Holy Spirit coming on people after they were baptized in water. Here is an entry on Baptism from Harpers Bible Dictionary
Baptism


baptism, rite involving water. The term is derived from a Greek word meaning ‘to immerse in or wash with water’ (Mark 7:4). Washing rites characterize priestly preparation for offering sacrifice in the ot (Exod. 40:12-15). On the Day of Atonement, the high priest bathes both before and after his offering (Lev. 16:4, 24). Visitors to the Temple should not enter the inner courts without washing hands and feet (t. Kelim I.6). Water washings are linked not only with religious purity but also with concern for sinfulness and moral purity (see Isa. 1:16-17; Jer. 4:14; Ezek. 36:25). More domestic versions of these concerns are found in Jewish ablutions in Jesus’ time. John 2:6 speaks of large stone jars that hold water ‘for purification’ (see Mark 7:2-4). John’s baptism and the ablutions of the Qumran covenanters belong to this tradition of cultic and moral ablutions. Jews also apparently performed baptisms of proselytes as part of the purification of new covenant members (m. Pesahim VIII.7; Eduyyot V.2).


Baptism in the nt begins with John’s baptism, which was a prophetic call to repentance and forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4). When Jesus is baptised, however, it is understood quite differently: it is not for sin (Matt. 3:13-15); rather it is a theophany (i.e. a self-revealing of God) in which Jesus is identified as ‘Beloved Son’ and commissioned as the herald of God’s kingdom (Mark 1:10-11; see Isa. 42:1-9). Christian baptism of converts retained the sense of rites of purification (1 Peter 3:21) as well as adoption as God’s children. Paul speaks of God pouring his Holy Spirit into converts’ hearts, enabling them to say ‘Abba, Father’ (Gal. 4:6; Rom. 8:15-17). This baptism was in some sense to Christianity what circumcision was to Judaism. John 3:3-5, in fact, makes baptism—not circumcision—the formal entrance rite into the covenant community (see Col. 2:11-12).


The interpretation of Christian baptism was fluid in the first century. At Corinth it was compared to Israel’s exodus through the sea and its eating of the manna in the desert (1 Cor. 10:1-4). In other places it was compared with Noah’s escape from God’s wrath on sinners (1 Pet. 3:21). It was also compared with Jesus’ death and resurrection; Christians symbolically die to their sins and former lives, a death they share with Christ, and are buried with him; as they rise from baptism in purity, they share the new life brought by Jesus’ resurrection (Rom. 6:1-4). Hence baptism may be compared to a new birth (John 3:4-5).


Although adults were generally baptized, there is a suggestion in Mark 10:13-16 that infants were also baptized. The argument rests on the term ‘hinder’ (Gk. kōlyō), which may have been part of the technical terminology of baptism: Jesus tells his disciples not to ‘hinder’ the children from coming to him; compare the language of the eunuch in Acts 8:36 who asks, ‘what is to prevent (Gk. kōlyō) my being baptized?’ See also John the Baptist; Proselyte; Purity; Sacraments. J.H.N.





Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row and Society of Biblical Literature. (1985). In Harper’s Bible dictionary (1st ed., pp. 92–93). San Francisco: Harper & Row.

No, that is a fictitious, mostly by power of suggestion, that they think he comes on people after they are Baptism in water, and speaking in SO-CALLED tongues.

HE WILL COME INTO YOUR HEART THE MOMENT YOU GENUINELY BELIEVE, John 14:16-17.

HE will birth your once dead Human Spirit into Eternal Life, John 3:6-7, Col. 2:13.

HE will pour GOD's LOVE into your Heart, Rom. 5:5.

HE will Be your TEACHER of Truth, giving you Understanding, John 15:26, John 14:26, 1 Cor. 6-16

HE will be your COMFORTER, Lam. 1:12, Isa. 51:12-13, John 14:16-18


That is the true Holy Spirit, that comes into your HEART the moment of Genuine Repentance and Genuinely Believing on Jesus Christ, where you LOVING receive HIM as LORD meaning Master, and HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU. You will KNOW when you are Born Again, because you will sense the Holy Spirit within your Heart, and the New Life, in your Heart, which is the Born Again Human Spirit. It will be like you have Two Minds, the one between you Ears that wants to do the will of the flesh, and the Mind in your Heart that wants to do the Will of GOD. As you Mature spiritually, by studying His Word, the spiritual mind in your Heart will become more and more dominant over the mind between your ears.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
Wow, you took what is Simple, and made it COMPLICATED. Welcome aboard, to a Catholic Brother in Christ. However, I will show you the Simplicity that is in the CHRIST.

The Baptism that HE refers to, is NOT WATER BAPTISM. Immersion is not limited to water, but rather when one is Immersed into the Spiritual Body of Christ, THAT IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES. The IMMERSION that SAVES, IS NOT Christian Water Baptism, how do I know:

1 Peter 3:20-21 (HCSB)
20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
12 For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-7 (HCSB)
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling—
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.
7 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah’s gift.


ALL have been IMMERSED by the HOLY SPIRIT, into the SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. AND ALL Certainly includes the Thief on the Cross.

How do I know we have to be IMMERSED into the Spiritual Body of Christ?

Romans 6:3-4 (ESV)
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 1:9 (HCSB)
9 God is faithful; you were called by Him into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 3:26-27 (NASB)
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.


No, Water Baptism DOES NOT SAVE, but Spiritual Baptism into the Spiritual Body of Christ, DOES SAVE, the Moment you first BELIEVE.


Yes, Water Baptism is important, and should be one of our First Steps in Our Walk of OBEDIENCE, AFTER you were REALLY BORN AGAIN, that happened as the moment you first Believed.

I had better explain what BORN AGAIN actually means.

I came to Christ, Mourning over my utter sinfulness. I mourned for hours as guilt ridden wave after wave washed over me about my whole lifestyle. I was begging Him to FORGIVE ME, over and over again. I was prone face down on my bedroom floor about 5:00 in the morning; and I had the MOST VIVID DREAM or only Vision I ever had. I was on my KNEES at the foot of the Cross Begging HIM to forgive me, and every sin I ever committed was like another one pound weight pulling down on HIS arms; and there were so many of them. I NOTICED THE NAILS WERE THROUGH HIS WRISTS, EVEN THOUGH EVERY PICTURE THAT I EVER SAW, THEY WERE IN HIS PALMS. (Years later I learned that Jews consider the Wrists to be part of the Hand, and that is the only place where the Nails would not pull through HIS flesh.) I looked up with my arms raised, through my tearing eyes, and I saw blood drop from each of HIS wrists. It splashed on my forearms, and I could FEEL the warmth of that blood, and I KNEW I WAS FORGIVEN.

That is where the Dream or Vision ended. KNOWING THAT HIS BLOOD FORGAVE ME. BUT IN THAT INSTANT, the HOLY SPIRIT CAME INTO MY HEART, HE instantly birthed my dead human Spirit into Eternal Life, as HE immersed my body into the spiritual body of Christ, and HE poured GOD's LOVE into my Heart.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


No I am not saying that Dreams or a Visions, will be the norm, but Evidence of having your once dead human spirit, coming to eternal life, WILL BE THE NORM; and that happens from day one on. I knew there was something DIFFERENT in me. I had a total TRUST in JESUS, that was not their before, the Hunger for HIS WORD, and PEACE WITH GOD, are the first things that I noticed. Then as I got GOD's Word IN ME, it began to change me from the inside out. I used to curse worse than anybody; the after getting into the WORD for a few weeks, I hid my thumb with a hammer, and all that came out of my mouth was "Dog Gone It!" Also about that same time, I KNEW God wanted me to quit smoking, but I actually argued with GOD, "Why should I quit, as long as I enjoy it?" Then one morning I sat up in bed, lit my first cigarette of the day, AND IT TASTED HORRIBLE! Then the thought went through my head, "What's your excuse now DUMMY!" That was my last cigarette, from a pack and a half a day, to ZERO.

No my infant baptism did not SAVE ME, BUT the Holy Spirit immersing me into the Spiritual Body of Christ, IS THE BAPTISM THAT DID SAVE ME. The Bible that once was the most boring book I owned, became the most exciting book I could read. I was Extremely hungry to hear they Word TAUGHT, and instead of daydreaming through 15 minute Sermons, I was EAGER TO HEAR EVEN MORE. I found a BIBLE Teaching Church, where the Sermons were one hour long, and it seemed like a half hour or less, because those one hour sermons were SO INTERESTING. Yes, even my Mom accused me of Leaving the Church, but I knew I was where HE WANTED ME.
See if this is right. God gives the grace of faith to an unbeliever. They are immediately baptized with the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism that remits sins. Then later the new Christian receives water baptism to publicly profess he is a Christian.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
See if this is right. God gives the grace of faith to an unbeliever. They are immediately baptized with the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism that remits sins. Then later the new Christian receives water baptism to publicly profess he is a Christian.
You are very close to being Correct. The Holy Spirit is the ONE Who Baptizes us INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

And, Only the first time you verbalized what happened your Heart is what he means that Salvation is COMPLETE, (usually the same day or even the same few minutes). Not later what we decide we need to get Baptized in water. Now Sanctification of the Body takes a lifetime, the Process of learning to WALK as Jesus walked, and it will not be complete until we get the Glorified Body in Resurrection. Getting Baptized in water is part of that WALK.

Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)
9 If you confess {not just profess, so it has to be the truth of what happened in your heart}
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.


1 John 2:6 (NIV)
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

How did Jesus WALK?

2 John 1:6 (HCSB)
6 And this is love: that we walk according to His commands. This is the command as you have heard it from the beginning: you must walk in love.


Now I have had a Pastor tell me that it is wrong to tell somebody to receive Jesus as their LORD,
because that constitutes works Righteousness. NO IT IS NOT, that is one of the Things that the Holy Spirit
does in the NEW BELIEVER:

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,except by the Holy Spirit.
 
May 20, 2018
225
117
43
Ohio
See if this is right. God gives the grace of faith to an unbeliever. They are immediately baptized with the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism that remits sins. Then later the new Christian receives water baptism to publicly profess he is a Christian.

Awesome testimony. I also was "lit up" by the Holy Spirit, and I too became drawn to pour over studying scripture. My biggest draw is to publish the truth revealed to me that the world has pretty much annihilated over the centuries. Label it as you will, but from my personal experience with Gods saving grace says we are called, drawn, taught, given a measure of faith and the Holy Spirit and any and everything else i need to retain eternal life. I didn't do any of it, and after 19 years, am still beside myself on the things that have changed within me. It is freaking amazing. THANK YOU HEAVENLY FATHER.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,179
17,540
113
<sneaks in to take a peak>

Is it safe to pop in here yet? Got sick of the same arguments with the same people are there any new people to discuss with?
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,179
17,540
113
Why would a born again Christian have have to know about Luther?

A born again Christian has to know about Jesus.

How many people have you led to Jesus that knows about Luther?

If he is your hero go with it.
But Jesus is my hero.

Many denomination has treaded of the biblical Gospel.

That's why we have all these disagreements on this thread.
Thats the problem, people are followers of men, and then indoctrinated to that mans doctrine, and have so much faith in that man, they come to believe that man can not be wrong in any place.

We have the followers of Luther, the followers of Calvin, the followers of Arminius, The followers of Rome, The followers of White, the followers of Prince.

Did not paul warn against these divisions when he chastened people for following men (even those who proudly said they follow Christ?

1 Cor 12:
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
You are very close to being Correct. The Holy Spirit is the ONE Who Baptizes us INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

And, Only the first time you verbalized what happened your Heart is what he means that Salvation is COMPLETE, (usually the same day or even the same few minutes). Not later what we decide we need to get Baptized in water. Now Sanctification of the Body takes a lifetime, the Process of learning to WALK as Jesus walked, and it will not be complete until we get the Glorified Body in Resurrection. Getting Baptized in water is part of that WALK.

Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)
9 If you confess {not just profess, so it has to be the truth of what happened in your heart}
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.


1 John 2:6 (NIV)
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

How did Jesus WALK?

2 John 1:6 (HCSB)
6 And this is love: that we walk according to His commands. This is the command as you have heard it from the beginning: you must walk in love.


Now I have had a Pastor tell me that it is wrong to tell somebody to receive Jesus as their LORD,
because that constitutes works Righteousness. NO IT IS NOT, that is one of the Things that the Holy Spirit
does in the NEW BELIEVER:

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,except by the Holy Spirit.
Why does Jesus command us to believe and be baptized separately in Mk 16:16 if the latter is an automatic part of the first?
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
You are very close to being Correct. The Holy Spirit is the ONE Who Baptizes us INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

And, Only the first time you verbalized what happened your Heart is what he means that Salvation is COMPLETE, (usually the same day or even the same few minutes). Not later what we decide we need to get Baptized in water. Now Sanctification of the Body takes a lifetime, the Process of learning to WALK as Jesus walked, and it will not be complete until we get the Glorified Body in Resurrection. Getting Baptized in water is part of that WALK.

Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)
9 If you confess {not just profess, so it has to be the truth of what happened in your heart}
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.


1 John 2:6 (NIV)
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

How did Jesus WALK?

2 John 1:6 (HCSB)
6 And this is love: that we walk according to His commands. This is the command as you have heard it from the beginning: you must walk in love.


Now I have had a Pastor tell me that it is wrong to tell somebody to receive Jesus as their LORD,
because that constitutes works Righteousness. NO IT IS NOT, that is one of the Things that the Holy Spirit
does in the NEW BELIEVER:

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,except by the Holy Spirit.
One further question. Why did Peter and John have to go lay hands on those people who had been baptized and the they had not received the Holy Spirit?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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one possible reason satan want us to doubt our salvation, so that when we somehow become convinced that we are not saved, the sin part of us will take that as an excuse "you are not saved anyway, go ahead and sin, it doesn't matter"
It works the other way more often. satan says, you are saved anyway, go ahead and sin, it doesnt matter, Jesus will clean you up immediately. That is the danger logic that is more prevelant than what you said.