Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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that seems really ill-defined.
do you mean you have to make yourself 'good enough' to receive Him?

in the parable of the wedding feast, where the poor and the lame and the crippled were invited, and everyone going by on the road, someone was thrown out because they weren't dressed in the right clothes. it was evidently important not to be wearing just anything - not like a 'come as you are' party in the common parlance.

everyone needed to be dressed in special robes. where do you think they got their wedding garments? esp. the beggars?
who is the man without the right clothes?
a

I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that my point zoomed right over your head. All unrighteousness is sin, in fact, anything we do that is less than perfect is sin. Also, not doing what you know to be right is also a sin. I merely admit to being a human, or, in other words a sinner saved by grace.

We often, including you, find ourselves doing things that we know we shouldn't but we do them any way because they please us. And we do them until God corrects us with His chastisement. It may be that we suddenly find that heaven is silent to us and we know that we have broken fellowship with God. We decide that it is much better to walk with Him than against Him.

I trust that you are not interpreting my 'enjoyment' of sin as something heinous like adultery, drunkenness or some other gross sin. I'm using more of watching television programs that do not please God, but I get a kick out of them . . . for a season.

Does that clear things up for you, my judge?
I have nothing to say to you.
Your attitude is not very Christianly.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I Know HIM intimately, personally, and HE has saved me FOREVER. I KNOW THAT WITH MY WHOLE BEING.
Amen! John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a personal relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. :)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,131
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Hi Mailmandan, wonderful post and praise God for helping you find the "Truth" and the courage to act upon that truth. My dads family were mostly Roman Catholic, but I was "born again" and raised in a non-denomination conservative evangelical Church. I have 2 cousins that left the RCC....:)
Thank you brother! It truly amazes how certain works-salvationists can read the words of Jesus, "I NEVER knew you" in Matthew 7:23 and still claim these many people in Matthew 7:22 were "genuine believers," yet their works of iniquity caused them to lose their salvation and yet other works-salvationists of the Hebrew Roots persuasion will point out that these many people in Matthew 7:22 were doing "all the wrong works" yet the implication is that they themselves will be saved because they are doing "all the right works." :rolleyes:

Such people do not get the heart of the issue, namely, these many people were NOT GENUINE BELIEVERS regardless of how many works they set out to accomplish in a vain effort to obtain eternal life. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him (which only genuine believers have) and not merely theoretical knowledge, which unbelievers have.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,286
4,238
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I have nothing to say to you.
Your attitude is not very Christianly.

I can tell you are from the Easy Believism, Love Only false Gospel.

We are from:

Galatians 2:2 (NJB)
2 My journey was inspired by a revelation and there, in a private session with the recognised leaders, I expounded the whole gospel that I preach to the gentiles, to make quite sure that the efforts I was making and had already made should not be fruitless.

Galatians 1:9 (HCSB)
9 As we have said before, I now say again: If anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

Acts 20:27 (ESV)
27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.

Acts 20:29-31 (HCSB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Amen! John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a personal relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. :)
AMEN and he also said that these things are written that you may KNOW---> RIGHT NOW that you are saved and have eternal life dwelling in you......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I have nothing to say to you.
Your attitude is not very Christianly.
If you were alive in the 1st Century would you have said the same of John the Baptist, JESUS or maybe Paul when they were raking the disciples over the coals?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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So, in your view 'castaway' can only mean lost salvation and an eternity in hell? Not possible a man making shipwreck of his life whereby he is unable to serve God due to a personal failing. I know a few men called to preach that are no longer in the ministry because they failed to keep their body under subjection . . . yet they still love and serve the Lord in other capacities.

You have a serious case of tunnel vision.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness? And if you are, are you ashamed to admit it? Perhaps you fear what men might do to your membership here?
No, I am not affiliated with any religious franchise. As I have come to learn, there isn't a nickels difference between the JW and the Baptists, AOG, Mormons, Catholics, SDA, they are all the same.

There is a difference between a man falling in sin, and belonging to a religion which promotes traditions that transgress the Commandments of God. My Savior, the Word of God which became Flesh, Wrote down for me, in His Tender Mercy, what tactics the deceiver would use to draw me to it and away from the God of the Bible. Keep in mind that we are told it will disguise itself as a "minister of righteousness", and an "Apostle of Christ". In other words, it will hide in religion.

Gen. 3:
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Notice the first thing the serpent did here. It used God's Word to solicit a conversation with Eve. It didn't use "ALL" of God's word, because doing that would expose it and it's agenda. No, it just used a few Words of God to start the deceiving process. This is very important in understanding this example of deceit.

"2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

Notice that Eve knew the Commandment, the full commandment. Like the Christ said, don't commit adultery, don't even think about another woman. Don't murder, don't even hate your brother. Don't eat of the one tree in the midst, don't even touch it. She knew the commandment.

"4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"

After the serpent got her attention using God's Word, the first thing it convinced Eve of is that she was already immortal. Already saved, already there. So even though God said basically "The wages of sin is death", satan convinced her God was not being honest with her, that He was misleading her, that she was already saved regardless of what the Word of God said.

"5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (reject the Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Next the serpent convinced Eve that God's Instructions were against her. That they were keeping her Blind, in prison, burdened, That God didn't really have her best interest at heart and that if she really wanted to be "Free" and "SEE" she should reject God's commandment and listen to "Another voice".

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So the woman (bride, wife, church) was convinced to reject God's instructions and chose to guide her own footsteps.

I believe this "religion" is the one that influenced the congregation of the Lord to stone Caleb, influenced Cain to slaw Abel, and it continued through the centuries and influenced men, who claimed the God of Abraham as their God to murder the Prophets, then their own Messiah, and some of the Apostles.

And now it has grown so large that no one is immune from it's influence. It created images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model that is known planet wide as the "Christian" God, even though such a "work" is strictly forbidden by the Word of God which became Flesh. It has created man made High Days in worship to this god that are nothing more than Pagan celebrations which religious men have placed the name of Christ on. And these celebration are observed by almost the entire planet, while the Feasts of the Lord, that He created for men, are rejected, neglected and omitted from their religion.

This has all been prophesied many times. Religious men have just been convinced that much of God's Word is not true.

Jer. 5:
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

I believe the Bible when it says to put on the Whole Armor of God to withstand the "wiles of the devil".

This Armor was given us by the Christ, and in fact worn by Him as a man on this earth. The important thing is "doing" what HE instructs and the serpent will try and convince you not to. Just remember what the Christ told us.

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God. This is how we "rightly divide the Word of God". But the religions of the land will ridicule and insult and try to Label anyone who follows these instructions.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And where is the Will of God shown? In the Old Testament which the religions of the land teach is obsolute. Listen to the Christ though, He knew all this was coming.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, (Which show the Will of God) neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It's all there for us, we just need to have Faith, not in the other voice, or religions of the land, but in Every Word of God.

But be of good courage "He that endures to the end SHALL BE SAVED".

This is my hope.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No, I am not affiliated with any religious franchise. As I have come to learn, there isn't a nickels difference between the JW and the Baptists, AOG, Mormons, Catholics, SDA, they are all the same.
The above has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I have seen on this site in 5 years.....and if you really believe that....it speaks volumes to not only lacking any true understanding but also reeks of an unfounded bias.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20).

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Corinthians 4:3-4).
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,286
4,238
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No, I am not affiliated with any religious franchise. As I have come to learn, there isn't a nickels difference between the JW and the Baptists, AOG, Mormons, Catholics, SDA, they are all the same.

There is a difference between a man falling in sin, and belonging to a religion which promotes traditions that transgress the Commandments of God. My Savior, the Word of God which became Flesh, Wrote down for me, in His Tender Mercy, what tactics the deceiver would use to draw me to it and away from the God of the Bible. Keep in mind that we are told it will disguise itself as a "minister of righteousness", and an "Apostle of Christ". In other words, it will hide in religion.

Gen. 3:
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Notice the first thing the serpent did here. It used God's Word to solicit a conversation with Eve. It didn't use "ALL" of God's word, because doing that would expose it and it's agenda. No, it just used a few Words of God to start the deceiving process. This is very important in understanding this example of deceit.

"2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

Notice that Eve knew the Commandment, the full commandment. Like the Christ said, don't commit adultery, don't even think about another woman. Don't murder, don't even hate your brother. Don't eat of the one tree in the midst, don't even touch it. She knew the commandment.

"4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"

After the serpent got her attention using God's Word, the first thing it convinced Eve of is that she was already immortal. Already saved, already there. So even though God said basically "The wages of sin is death", satan convinced her God was not being honest with her, that He was misleading her, that she was already saved regardless of what the Word of God said.

"5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (reject the Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Next the serpent convinced Eve that God's Instructions were against her. That they were keeping her Blind, in prison, burdened, That God didn't really have her best interest at heart and that if she really wanted to be "Free" and "SEE" she should reject God's commandment and listen to "Another voice".

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So the woman (bride, wife, church) was convinced to reject God's instructions and chose to guide her own footsteps.

I believe this "religion" is the one that influenced the congregation of the Lord to stone Caleb, influenced Cain to slaw Abel, and it continued through the centuries and influenced men, who claimed the God of Abraham as their God to murder the Prophets, then their own Messiah, and some of the Apostles.

And now it has grown so large that no one is immune from it's influence. It created images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model that is known planet wide as the "Christian" God, even though such a "work" is strictly forbidden by the Word of God which became Flesh. It has created man made High Days in worship to this god that are nothing more than Pagan celebrations which religious men have placed the name of Christ on. And these celebration are observed by almost the entire planet, while the Feasts of the Lord, that He created for men, are rejected, neglected and omitted from their religion.

This has all been prophesied many times. Religious men have just been convinced that much of God's Word is not true.

Jer. 5:
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

I believe the Bible when it says to put on the Whole Armor of God to withstand the "wiles of the devil".

This Armor was given us by the Christ, and in fact worn by Him as a man on this earth. The important thing is "doing" what HE instructs and the serpent will try and convince you not to. Just remember what the Christ told us.

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God. This is how we "rightly divide the Word of God". But the religions of the land will ridicule and insult and try to Label anyone who follows these instructions.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And where is the Will of God shown? In the Old Testament which the religions of the land teach is obsolute. Listen to the Christ though, He knew all this was coming.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, (Which show the Will of God) neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It's all there for us, we just need to have Faith, not in the other voice, or religions of the land, but in Every Word of God.

But be of good courage "He that endures to the end SHALL BE SAVED".

This is my hope.

So you do not go to Church ? ? ?

So How are you obedient to the "ONE ANOTHER"s in the BIBLE ? ? ? Look up the phrase.

How are you Obedient to these verses:

Ephesians 4:11-14 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.


Therefore you DID NOT LEARN the Difference between the Churches and so-called Churches.

And you did not Learn about the Deity of Christ.

How much else did you NOT LEARN?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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that seems really ill-defined.
do you mean you have to make yourself 'good enough' to receive Him?

in the parable of the wedding feast, where the poor and the lame and the crippled were invited, and everyone going by on the road, someone was thrown out because they weren't dressed in the right clothes. it was evidently important not to be wearing just anything - not like a 'come as you are' party in the common parlance.

everyone needed to be dressed in special robes. where do you think they got their wedding garments? esp. the beggars?
who is the man without the right clothes?
As is your custom, you ignore the whole post.

It's not about making myself "good enough" to receive Him. It's about denying my understanding, and my religious thoughts and believing in Him enough to listen and "do" what He says. This, according to the Bible, is what "FAITH" is. This is how Abraham believed and received favor from God. This is who the Word of God which became Flesh said would receive His Mercy.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is what the Christ taught.

Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 Cor. 1:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I's not about making myself "worthy", it's about "Faith" in Him enough to "come out of her" and follow His voice, not the Popes, or yours.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18).

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,286
4,238
113
Thank you brother! It truly amazes how certain works-salvationists can read the words of Jesus, "I NEVER knew you" in Matthew 7:23 and still claim these many people in Matthew 7:22 were "genuine believers," yet their works of iniquity caused them to lose their salvation and yet other works-salvationists of the Hebrew Roots persuasion will point out that these many people in Matthew 7:22 were doing "all the wrong works" yet the implication is that they themselves will be saved because they are doing "all the right works." :rolleyes:

Such people do not get the heart of the issue, namely, these many people were NOT GENUINE BELIEVERS regardless of how many works they set out to accomplish in a vain effort to obtain eternal life. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him (which only genuine believers have) and not merely theoretical knowledge, which unbelievers have.

AND HE REPEATS THE WARNING IN:

Matthew 25:12-13 (HCSB)
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,336
5,029
113
So you do not go to Church ? ? ?

So How are you obedient to the "ONE ANOTHER"s in the BIBLE ? ? ? Look up the phrase.

How are you Obedient to these verses:

Ephesians 4:11-14 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.


Therefore you DID NOT LEARN the Difference between the Churches and so-called Churches.

And you did not Learn about the Deity of Christ.

How much else did you NOT LEARN?
watch, he will pull out the " you have no need of anyone to teach you " card.

I have a cousin that is the same way. no church, won't listen to anything anyone tells him about Scripture.

he doesn't know what he is talking about either.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
So you do not go to Church ? ? ?

So How are you obedient to the "ONE ANOTHER"s in the BIBLE ? ? ? Look up the phrase.

How are you Obedient to these verses:

Ephesians 4:11-14 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.


Therefore you DID NOT LEARN the Difference between the Churches and so-called Churches.

And you did not Learn about the Deity of Christ.

How much else did you NOT LEARN?
It's not about me, it's about "EVERY WORD" that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Of course you have been "convinced" that your religion is the right one, the Pope preaches that He is God's mouth piece, the JW claims to be God's True church, and so do the Baptists and so did the Pharisees. Yet, they all disagree with each other, and they all preach different doctrines. The one thing they all have in common, that no member of the Christ's Church did, is that they all "Transgress the Commandment of God be their own religious tradition".

I would love to find a church that didn't do this, but I can only find a small group of people who really "Believe" ALL that is written in the Bible. And I try to have these discussions on this forum, and a few do engage. But most just get all offended when their man made traditions are exposed, they label you, insult you, ridicule you, not because a person uses their own words but because they use the Word's of God. They did the same thing to the prophets, the disciples, and even their own Messiah. But what can a man do? Surely the Christ is true.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And it's not like He didn't warn us of what was to come.

Matt. 7:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So yes, I belong to the same church Abraham, Caleb, Abel, Jeremiah, Zechariahs, Simeon, Anna, Mary, David, Peter, James, Sampson. Job, Noah and many others belong to. And anyone can be "Grafted in" if only they would "believe" in the Holy Root.

But sadly, it seems men are more interested in their religious traditions, than with "FAITH" in the Word of God which became Flesh.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is based on works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. Religious, but not right with God. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! Descriptive of the lost.
Salvation is not based on works. You cannot do enough good works to make your way into heaven.
But, If you are a true believer you will be engaged in the work of the Lord, agreed?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
watch, he will pull out the " you have no need of anyone to teach you " card.

I have a cousin that is the same way. no church, won't listen to anything anyone tells him about Scripture.

he doesn't know what he is talking about either.
Does your cousin believe in OSAS. One of the by-products of OSAS is that Jesus has finished your salvation, and therefore you do not have to do anything but trust in him. That literally means that you no longer have to go to church, you no longer have to help your church with money donations, you do not have to fast, or pray, or do any good works (in fact good works is a nasty word), if you sin, Jesus will automatically forgive you without any effort on your part, etc., etc., etc. Is this where your cousin is? Because lots of Christians are in this position, just waiting until the second coming, to be taken up by their Lord into EL.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,131
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Salvation is not based on works. You cannot do enough good works to make your way into heaven.
But, If you are a true believer you will be engaged in the work of the Lord, agreed?
If we are a true believer/truly born of God, then we will practice righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9-10) All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Thank you brother! It truly amazes how certain works-salvationists can read the words of Jesus, "I NEVER knew you" in Matthew 7:23 and still claim these many people in Matthew 7:22 were "genuine believers," yet their works of iniquity caused them to lose their salvation and yet other works-salvationists of the Hebrew Roots persuasion will point out that these many people in Matthew 7:22 were doing "all the wrong works" yet the implication is that they themselves will be saved because they are doing "all the right works." :rolleyes:

Such people do not get the heart of the issue, namely, these many people were "NOT GENUINE BELIEVERS" regardless of how many works they set out to accomplish in a vain effort to obtain eternal life. John 17:3 -"And this is eternal life, that they may know You", the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him (which only genuine believers have) and not merely theoretical knowledge, which unbelievers have.
Hi Dan, God will separate the sheep from the goats so we do not need to 2nd guess who is truly saved, only test the spirits whether they be from God. Quote from a Pastor, "there will be some people in heaven that you thought would "never be there" and "they are" and there will be some people you thought for sure "would be there" and "they were not.":)

I began my Christian life by first reading the four Gospels plus Proverbs and Psalms. When I reached the passage in John5:35 I was shocked and even terrified at the possibilities and so as Christians should do I, took stock of and assessed my new faith, "whether I be in the faith.", 2Cor13:5, very subjective of course but I believe I passed....:)
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You,"

John5:35-40: Testimonies of Jesus
35) John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36) “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37) And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38) nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39) "You study the Scriptures diligently" because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40) yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

God bless!