Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I remember sharing this statement below from a Roman Catholic with Fran (when she was still here) and she specifically told me, and I quote, "your Catholic friend is correct.":eek:

"We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc.."

Perfect example above of mixing faith and works and calling it salvation through faith. :cautious:
My post no. 74,190 will explain the above sinché you brought it up to me.
Let's be honest....I didn't totally agree with your friend.

I must say, however, that every church gets some things right.
And every church gets some things wrong. Is there a church you totally agree with?
I doubt it.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
oh, and I asked knows nothing man for this, and never got it-

produce a translation that defines the greek word for law ( nomos ) as purely plural , then your claims about half a dozen different laws will have some merit.
sorry. I don't know what you're talking about.
I don't mean to ignore your post...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
10,793
113
55
My post no. 74,190 will explain the above sinché you brought it up to me.
Let's be honest....I didn't totally agree with your friend.

I must say, however, that every church gets some things right.
And every church gets some things wrong. Is there a church you totally agree with?
I doubt it.
It’s not about being in total agreement with every church on everything, but we must be in agreement on essential Christian doctrine.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
My post no. 74,190 will explain the above sinché you brought it up to me.
Let's be honest....I didn't totally agree with your friend.

I must say, however, that every church gets some things right.
And every church gets some things wrong. Is there a church you totally agree with?
I doubt it.
So who decides, YOU ? ? ?

I have found your theology VERY LACKING in Truth.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
Yes.
If you do not obey God it means you do not believe in Him.
Luke 6:46
"why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?"
Ok so you are disobedient twice today, therefore you do believe in God?
Is that the case?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
knows nothing man is studyman's proper name. I asked him, never got anything, you agree with him, so I am asking you.
I answer all questions...but I don't understand what you're asking me.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
It’s not about being in total agreement with every church on everything, but we must be in agreement on essential Christian doctrine.
Of course.
My point was that even the cc gets some things right.

I owe you one reply but I'm on a phone right now.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
I don't agree that the ten commandments were given to show us we could not keep them, although this is true. They were given for other reasons.

Other than that, I agree with all you've posted.
Then your argument is with GOD.

Romans 3:20 (ESV)
20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight,
since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
6 For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Then your argument is with GOD.

Romans 3:20 (ESV)
20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight,
since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
6 For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
LOL
So is yours!

BTW, you had said that the Ten Commandments were given to show we could not keep them.
Your above verses do not prove this.

You could try again.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I'm just checking cause we have had many on this site who say if we are disobedient then we do not believe in God, and they say even if it's once
That's crazy.
Everybody is disobedient at times. Perfection exists only in heaven.
This gets into sin. Everybody sins but some believe that saying this encourages sinning.
It's a whole different discussion.

The point is that we have to understand that God demands obedience.
If I say this and I get persons not agreeing and even being sarcastic with me, it must surely mean they don't believe it's necessary.

Being obedient is a necessary ingredient to being in the Kingdom, here.
Of course we miss the mark many times but that is our goal.
The goal can't be NOT to be obedient.

So I'm told by some that I'm wrong and that no one here says we should sin.

Then why do they debate if they agree!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,055
14,992
113
Yes.
If you do not obey God it means you do not believe in Him.
Luke 6:46
"why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?"
Your above verse does not say that disobedience = lack of belief.

You could try again.
Everybody is disobedient at times.
According to what you said in the previous post of yours, that means nobody believes in God.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,186
4,916
113
I answer all questions...but I don't understand what you're asking me.
what I am asking is this- you say the law is in multiple parts, some in effect, some not.

the greek word for law is nomos, which is only defined in plural 2 times.

so, since the Bible was not written in English, it was translated, do you have a translation that defines nomos as plural more than twice.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
what I am asking is this- you say the law is in multiple parts, some in effect, some not.

the greek word for law is nomos, which is only defined in plural 2 times.

so, since the Bible was not written in English, it was translated, do you have a translation that defines nomos as plural more than twice.
This is theology. Nothing to do with Greek.
Look up the different types of law in the OT.
Or, which OT laws have been abolished.
Easy.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,186
4,916
113
This is theology. Nothing to do with Greek.
Look up the different types of law in the OT.
Or, which OT laws have been abolished.
Easy.
well, since the first definition of nomos is the first five books of the Bible, i.e., the Torah, I see why you do not want to talk about language, because it seems like based on language , not under the Law means not under the Torah. all of it.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
Oh for goodness sake Bill.
Are you serious?


NO, You are disobedient WAY more than Two times a day:

1 Peter 2:13-16 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.


1540392086584.jpeg
Speed even accidentally - YOU SIN.

1540392202536.jpeg
LITTER or NO DOG LEASH - YOU SIN.


Cigarette buts are Litter too - YOU SIN


ILLEGAL PARKING, even if you do not
get caught - YOU SIN.


1540392699963.png
DO NOT PICK UP AFTER YOUR DOG - YOU SIN.


JAYWALKING IS ILLEGAL WHERE POSTED - YOU SIN.


SPITTING In Public is ILLEGAL, and JUST PLAIN RUDE - YOU SIN.

And probably a whole lot of other Ordinances you just IGNORE.

The other day there was a man with an obvious Chest Cold, going into Walmart. He hacked up a large amount of Phlegm and spit it on the ground just before the entrance, AND 20 feet away was a handy wipe to wipe down grocery cart handles, AND A TRASH CAN. How RUDE is that?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
well, since the first definition of nomos is the first five books of the Bible, i.e., the Torah, I see why you do not want to talk about language, because it seems like based on language , not under the Law means not under the Torah. all of it.
Not under the law means we are not saved by the law but by grace.
No one was ever saved by the law. Even in the OT persons were saved by faith,,,God never changes.
There were 3 types of law in the OT times. Civil law, ceremonial law and moral law. The Hebrews, Israelites and Jews were expected to keep all three because they were part of their culture.


Jesus abolished the civil and ceremonial law and now only the moral law remains.
When we speak of the law today, it's commonly understood as the moral law, or the 10 commandments.
I don't know anyone who keeps the 613 laws.!