Not By Works

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Pisteuo

Guest
yes , VCO I do know the difference between soul and spirit. Its surprises me you do tho , That also brings us to another false teaching, the Trinity people believe the Holy Spirit is a person a Being , but they are wrong. Gods spirit is His Mind ,His force,His whole being, likewise the spirit of man is his mind, intellect,his whole being.When a person recieves the HS then Gods spirit joins with our human spirit and He reveals spiritual things to us. We then have the mind of Christ IN us, not just with us but now in us and we can understand spiritual things a person without the HS cannot. BUT that human spirit is not immortal, I think God will use each of our own unique human spirit to resurrect us individually! Where do you get the idea that this makes our human spirit immortal?.
Gods mind joined with our mind gives us spiritual knowledge and understanding, not immortality!

This is interesting and more to be said and looked into Im sure . Back tomorrow to do that if you like and TLW.

Not to many people bring up the mind of Christ Suzy . Mostly , I think is because it's traits or what happens when one recieves the mind of Christ is not spoken of in Scripture .

This means one must have the experience of having the mind of Christ to know what happens and what it's like to have it .

This isn't something I bring up on discussion boards , but since you did , what do you know about having the mind of Christ ? What happens when you have it ?
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
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NO PLEASE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEORY! IT IS A REAL EXPERIENCE YOU CAN HAVE NOW. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GENUINELY REPENT, AND TRULY RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, MEANING MASTER. IT IS VERY, VERY REAL.

HE WILL BIRTH YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE! PLEASE SURRENDER THE COMPLETE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE NOW, PURELY OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.

I KNOW NOW WHY YOU ARE SO CONFUSED, YOU NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOUR LIFE NOW!

The night I was saved, after my third attempt at suicide, because my wife of only 6 months, demanded a divorce on Christmas Eve of 1977, because I could not earn enough money. I prayed, "Forgive me, Forgive me! LORD if you got a purpose for my life, you will have to come in and run my live. Because I cannot do it!" PLEASE, give HIM control of your LIFE out of a Willing Heart.

Did He COME IN? Absolutely, and I saw so many miracles in my life, I could not count them. How does a Nebraska farm boy with out a single hour is BIBLE COLLEGE, become a Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain, you will have to ask HIM. He kept opening all the doors and I just followed HIS LEAD, and I became that Volunteer Chaplain that started a Prison Ministry in the 1500 man, HOLE (Security Housing Unit) in the new prison that was to house the End of the Line Inmates in the California Dept. of Corrections. I was 9.5 years there, then we moved to another town where I also Volunteered as a Chaplain at another Super-Max prison there for 5.5 years before I retired from the Post Office. I TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY TO DO WHAT I COULD NOT, AND HE WAS FAITHFUL. BORN AGAIN IS VERY REAL, please come to HIM, and willing give HIM control of your Life.
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VCO Thank you very much for caring, I can see you are a very sincere, dedicated man and it certainly looks like God has used you to help others in your life. I was converted 63 yrs ago and have followed His Way of life ever since, not perfectly at all, many slips, many falls but God has been merciful to me and forgiving thru Christ for which I am very thankful. I was married for 24 yrs, had 5 kids,10 Grandkids,5 great grandkids and 2great great grandkids. Some of them I have never seen in person as they live in Florids and I live in Texas. There have been many ups and downs and trials and there still are. I have been healed by God as have others in my family,many trials but also many blessings ! I am not without God , He is with me!
i do thank you for your loving kindness and appreciate you!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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Not to many people bring up the mind of Christ Suzy . Mostly , I think is because it's traits or what happens when one recieves the mind of Christ is not spoken of in Scripture .

This means one must have the experience of having the mind of Christ to know what happens and what it's like to have it .

This isn't something I bring up on discussion boards , but since you did , what do you know about having the mind of Christ ? What happens when you have it ?
A much deeper understanding of scriptures for one thing, things just open up to your understanding in amazing ways at times,being able to see things more clearly.Personal growth in love and character that comes from God. Seeking to please God as I would my father, not wanting to disapoint Him. Heart turned to God.

Many other things as well, I still ask, seek,and knock and try to obey him tho I know I fail in many things and it is only thru His great forgiveness and grace that I wiill make it into His Kingdom!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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BOTH of the following statements prove your error in thinking.....the bolded above is false....


BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE BY INCORRUPTIBLE SEED...........

THAT which is BORN of SPIRIT is SPIRIT........

AOL <--->America On Line
Again ,should be translated begotten,not born.NOT YET born or like Jesus said you would be Spirit! You dont seem to want to take that for what it means and plainly says !
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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Because salvation is a lifelong process that God guides you thru helping you to develop His character in you. From conversion to
resurrection!
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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I believe that if someone accepted forgiveness from Jesus, even if that someone went into a coma without a chance to perform any works whatsoever, that someone is still saved

to back this up, a prisoner next to Jesus said "have mercy on me" and Jesus said to him "together, you will be with me in paradise"
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,236
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yes , VCO I do know the difference between soul and spirit. Its surprises me you do tho , That also brings us to another false teaching, the Trinity people believe the Holy Spirit is a person a Being , but they are wrong. Gods spirit is His Mind ,His force,His whole being, likewise the spirit of man is his mind, intellect,his whole being.When a person recieves the HS then Gods spirit joins with our human spirit and He reveals spiritual things to us. We then have the mind of Christ IN us, not just with us but now in us and we can understand spiritual things a person without the HS cannot. BUT that human spirit is not immortal, I think God will use each of our own unique human spirit to resurrect us individually! Where do you get the idea that this makes our human spirit immortal?.
Gods mind joined with our mind gives us spiritual knowledge and understanding, not immortality!

This is interesting and more to be said and looked into Im sure . Back tomorrow to do that if you like and TLW.




Oh my you have fallen for one the FALSE TEACHERS.

The HOLY TRINITY IS REAL! He is NOT THE STAR WARS FORCE.


NO! IT SAYS THE SPIRIT OF MAN IS IN HIS HEART, and the Mind is the SOUL.

Here is the KJV calling SOUL is the Greek WORD

Luke 1:46 (KJV)
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,


Greek Strong's Number: 5590

Greek Word: ψυχή

Transliteration: psychē 👈

Phonetic Pronunciation:
psoo-khay'


Root: from <G5594>

Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:608,1342

Part of Speech: n f

Vine's Words: Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Heart, Heartily, Life, Living, Lifetime, Life-giving, Soul

Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:

soul 58
life 40
mind 3
heart 1
heartily + <G1537> 1
not tr 2
[Total Count: 105]

from <G5594> (psucho); breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstract or concrete (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from <G4151> (pneuma), which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from <G2222> (zoe), which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew <H5315> (nephesh), <H7307> (ruwach) and <H2416> (chay)) :- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.


Here is JESUS that Calls the mind of a man his SOUL.



Luke 12:16-20 (ESV)
16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully,
17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’
18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’
20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’


PROOF THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A HE:


Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the Holy Spirit,


John 14:16-17 (ESV)
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees
him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells
with you and will be in you.


John 14:26 (ESV)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 15:26 (ESV)
26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

1 Corinthians 2:13 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

1 Peter 1:11 (HCSB)
11 They inquired into what time or what circumstances the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when He testified in advance to the messianic sufferings and the glories that would follow.

Revelation 22:17 (YLT)
17 And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing--let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting--let him come; and he who is willing--let him take the water of life freely.

1 John 5:6 (HCSB)
6 Jesus Christ—He is the One who came by water and blood, not by water only, but by water and by blood. And the Spirit is the One who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Without pisteuo or an accepted sealed surrendered life which "IS " the personal relationship , Christ will say be gone, I never knew you!
As I already explained, when we believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him. The fruit of that would be a life inspired by such surrender. Cause and effect.

In John 17:3, we read - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a personal relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many so called wonderful works that these many people set out to accomplish in a vain effort to receive eternal life based on the merits of their performance.

And maybe you could explain to me how someone who is attempting a works based salvation (which by the way, there's no such thing) is standing on their works for a life that is no longer theirs. (Pisteuo)
There are many unbelievers in various false religions and cults (who even claim to be Christians) that are trusting in a works based salvation. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, the church of Christ (Campbellism) adherents, Roman Catholics just to name some. No such thing, huh? Get real!

Funny your "trusting" is based on things that you receive, without any effort or work on your part. I hope your not married!
I'm trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation and not in my works. What are you trusting in? BTW I am married and have been for several years now. So what effort on your part are you trusting in for salvation? You already dodged two questions that I previously asked you and I would prefer answers to my questions instead of further questions from you and continued psychobabble.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Why oh Why are so many focused on Sin ?

Jesus died for the sins of the world !

Just Believe the Gospel for this the dispensation of Grace ( 1st Cor 15 1-4 )

Trust Jesus , and what he accomplished for us !!
Sadly, many people prefer to believe a "different" gospel. A "works based" false gospel. Even salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) :(

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to receive Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

Such people need to repent and believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” :)
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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A scenario…


A preacher told a non- Christian person; “ You should CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved. The preacher explained to him the Gospel afterwards and asked him if he believes what he has heard.


If that person would CLAIM to believe yet would not repent, confess, obey and suffer for the sake of Christ, will he be saved and always saved?


...Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Philippians 1:27-30


Suffering for Being a Christian

...Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you PARTICIPATE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are INSULTED because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and CONTINUE TO DO GOOD. 1 Peter 4:12-19


...and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, BECAUSE CHRIST SUFFERED FOR YOU, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:8,20-21


....During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM. Hebrews 5:7-9


...teaching them to obey whatever I have commanded you...Matthew 28:18-20


...for they have REJECTED THE LAW of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED THE WORD of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:24


...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6'7
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Sadly, many people prefer to believe a "different" gospel. A "works based" false gospel. Even salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) :(

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to receive Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

Such people need to repent and believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” :)
So who is telling the truth?

...Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. John 17:17-19

...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.Ephesians 5:6
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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A scenario…

A preacher told a non- Christian person; “ You should CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved. The preacher explained to him the Gospel afterwards and asked him if he believes what he has heard.

If that person would CLAIM to believe yet would not repent, confess, obey and suffer for the sake of Christ, will he be saved and always saved?
Apparently you don't believe Romans 10:9,10 and have presented an oxymoron. Those who believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) and are saved have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel and the word of faith is in their mouth and in their heart (Romans 10:8) so confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord (also see 1 Corinthians 12:3) and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10).

James talks about those who CLAIM to have faith, but have no works. (James 2:14) James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Obedience is the fruit of faith and all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful and all genuine believers will suffer for the sake of Christ, though some more than others.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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So who is telling the truth?

...Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. John 17:17-19

...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.Ephesians 5:6
Your cynical arguments sound very familiar. Have you been here before under a different avatar name? :unsure: You also seem to be implying that we are saved based on the merits of our obedience/works.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Works-salvationists usually quote verses like these to try and support salvation by works, yet we must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,236
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,
VCO Thank you very much for caring, I can see you are a very sincere, dedicated man and it certainly looks like God has used you to help others in your life. I was converted 63 yrs ago and have followed His Way of life ever since, not perfectly at all, many slips, many falls but God has been merciful to me and forgiving thru Christ for which I am very thankful. I was married for 24 yrs, had 5 kids,10 Grandkids,5 great grandkids and 2great great grandkids. Some of them I have never seen in person as they live in Florids and I live in Texas. There have been many ups and downs and trials and there still are. I have been healed by God as have others in my family,many trials but also many blessings ! I am not without God , He is with me!
i do thank you for your loving kindness and appreciate you!

Please may I ask what Church do you go too. The reason that I ask, you really need a very GOOD Bible Teaching Church. If some of the stuff you came up were taught to you from a pulpit, you need to find different Church. I can help with that.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Again ,should be translated begotten,not born.NOT YET born or like Jesus said you would be Spirit! You dont seem to want to take that for what it means and plainly says !
No, I actually do take it for what it means.........and you don't know what you are talking about if you think we are not born again by the Spirit due to a spiritual birth! No wonder so many people are screwed up in their beliefs......because of drivel like saying we are not born from above by a spiritual birth....that is just ignorant.....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Please may I ask what Church do you go too. The reason that I ask, you really need a very GOOD Bible Teaching Church. If some of the stuff you came up were taught to you from a pulpit, you need to find different Church. I can help with that.
Obviously a group that does not teach the truth.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Your cynical arguments sound very familiar. Have you been here before under a different avatar name? :unsure: You also seem to be implying that we are saved based on the merits of our obedience/works.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Works-salvationists usually quote verses like these to try and support salvation by works, yet we must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
AMEN....there is always a "tell"...............and par for the course with all that peddle a self saving working for Cainology!