Not By Works

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mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Hebrews 5:9
Hebrews was written for Jews that had converted to Christianity and also to show that Jesus was better...a better priest, a better prophet, a better King, a better sacrifice.

5:9 states that whoever believes in Jesus and obeys Him, will have eternal life...HE is the source of eternal life.
Hebrews 5:9 does not read "believes in Jesus and obeys Him." That is you twist in your efforts to teach salvation by works. Hebrews 5:9, simply says - "..He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" and as I already explained to you in post #81,195 - *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith in which they "keep" Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments and practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

First of all, I don't believe in salvation by works...so please stop addressing me as such.
Yes you do and sadly, you don't even seem to realize it. :( You continue to say that salvation is maintained by obedience/works. So how much obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him keep you saved? :unsure:

Second of all, I don't understand how this verse could even be used in that sense.
And there is a reason for that.

Unbelievers DO NOT NEED to obey God...they are ALREADY lost. You can't get more lost than lost.
Unbelievers need to obey God/obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16) but not before God draws them and enables them (John 6:44,65).

Then you say we practice righteousness and not sin.
YOU don't sin? Strange comment coming from you because I know you don't mean what it sounds like.
I DID NOT say that I NEVER sin at all. (1 John 1:8) I said that believers do not "practice" sin - 1 John 3:9 (NASB) The idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. This describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life without goal or effort to stop. Just bring it on!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Sorry bro, repent means to turn to God.


Words of Christ in red for emphasis -


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


  • that they should repent, turn to God


JPT
sorry bro,

words have definitions .

the Biblical word for repent is metanoia.

the definition of that word is ' a change of heart, a change of mind, '.

a change of mind that will lead to a change of behavior. just what I said.

submit yourself to what the Bible says and the accept the meaning of the words. do not add or subtract.
 

mailmandan

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Works are absolutely necessary to keep our salvation because this is obedience to God.
It's not our decision as to whether or not we should obey. We MUST obey.
God has always demanded obedience.
Here you go again teaching salvation by works, namely, salvation "maintained" by works - "type 2 works salvation." MUST obey or else? Once again, so how much obedience does it take? Believers are not 100% obedient 100% of the time. It's not that we MUST obey God in order to keep our salvation (obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God) but that we WILL obey God if we truly are saved. It's not about the perfection of our walk but the direction of our walk.

Exodus 20:6 God said to Moses:
6but showing loving kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

1 John 5:3
3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;

If we love God, we are willing to keep His commandments...
If we cannot even state that we are to keep His commandments...do we love Him?
If we cannot even SAY IT...can we do it?
1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. This does not mean that we "perfectly" obey ALL of His commandments 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach.

What is the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

Does God no longer require obedience?
Did He not write the LAW IN OUR HEART??
Jeremiah 31:33
God did not abolish His law...He just wrote it on our heart.
Jesus made the same statement:
Mathew 5:17
And then Jesus brought the law to the heart level:
Mathew 5:21-28
2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter. The New Covenant is not simply the Mosaic Covenant re-packaged. It's not about the law is abolished. It's still there for those who seek justification by the law and such people will be condemned by the law. (Galatians 2:16; 3:10, 24-28) In Romans 7:6, we read - But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. *Also see Hebrews 8:8-13.

Jesus went so far as to say that if we sin, it would be better to cut our arm off than for it to make us sin....because He understood the gravity of ending up away from God after death and He wanted to teach us how to avoid this.
Apart from the blood of Christ, we would all be toast! Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word Trinity is not in the bible....but the concept IS.
Amen! Which was exactly my point. :)

Do we find in the bible the concept of not having to obey God or do works for Him?
If so, could you post the verses please?
The Bible does not talk about, "don't obey God, don't do works for Him." It also does not talk about, "salvation by works." Ephesians 2:10 - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are saved for good works, but not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Now to your verses:

Romans 2:6-10
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

I haven't anything to add to the above...it supports my POV.
Please show me where it speaks to BELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS.
I find that it's speaking about doing good deeds and evil deeds.
Please post the verse that speaks of BELIEVING....
This particular passage of Scripture does not spell out the words, BELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS, but it DESCRIBES them.

Are BELIEVERS described as "those who have done good and will receive eternal life" or "those who have done evil and will receive wrath and indignation?" Are UNBELIEVERS described as those "who have done evil and will receive wrath and indignation" or "those who have done good and will receive eternal life?" After looking at the WHOLE of Scripture, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I see that you posted John 3:18 below, which answers the question. ;)

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Of course. We're born lost. IF we believe in Jesus, we will not be condemned. We must be born from above as He had just told Nicodemus.
Amen! We are all born lost, yet those who choose to believe in Him (Jesus) for salvation will not be condemned.

But what does this believe mean:
See verse 21:
21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
To believe means to have faith in/trust in/confidence in Jesus for salvation. "Practices the truth/comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" is descriptive of believers. You keep trying to "shoe horn" works "into" the definition of "believe" but the shoe does not fit. :cautious:

Once again Jesus is speaking about DEEDS. The one that PRACTICES the truth comes to the light, so that his DEEDS may be manifested as having been works pleasing God.
The idea of salvation based on the merit of DEEDS sure seems to tickle your ears. You continue to quote all the same verses that other works-salvationists quote in an effort to try and prove that salvation is based on works, which is disturbing! :eek:

John 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. *DESCRIPTIVE of unbelievers. In CONTRAST with verse 21, which is *DESCRIPTIVE of believers. Evil is reflected in fleeing from the light and evil deeds are done in darkness, while those who practice the truth come to the Light and good deeds are wrought in God.

John 5:24
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Is it enough to HEAR Jesus' word, or also TO DO IT?
James 1:22
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
It's not only who hears My word but also believes Him who sent Me, who has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Merely hearing the word without doing is self deceptive, while hearing that results in doing results in being blessed in his doing. (vs. 25)

John 14:21 JESUS SAID:
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
DESCRIPTIVE of BELIEVERS.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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the definition of that word is ' a change of heart, a change of mind, '.

Sorry bro,


When the scriptures define for us a word in its context, that is superior to a man made definition.


Example:


Faith -

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1



Faith according to the Strongs. -


The KJV translates Strong's G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x), assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x), fidelity (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
    1. relating to God
      1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
    2. relating to Christ
      1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
    3. the religious beliefs of Christians
    4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
  2. fidelity, faithfulness
  3. the character of one who can be relied on


Don’t get me wrong, Bible dictions are a good place to start, but when the Bible provides us with it’s own definition then we need to adhere to it as our primary source.




JLB
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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Prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the RCC, I didn't get it. But after my conversion, upon placing my faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, I get it. Salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9). To believe anything else is to miss salvation.
Speaking about the CC again? I should bring to your attention how often you bring it up.
Maybe it's necessary for you to go the other extreme to abolish what THEY taught you.

BTW, I don't know what they taught you because the CC also believes in salvation by faith alone.
Ephesians 2:8-9

It seems, however, that many overlook
Ephesians 2:10 and all the other scripture that has that horrid word "works/deeds" in it.

Get over it already!
:)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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sorry bro,

words have definitions .

the Biblical word for repent is metanoia.

the definition of that word is ' a change of heart, a change of mind, '.

a change of mind that will lead to a change of behavior. just what I said.

submit yourself to what the Bible says and the accept the meaning of the words. do not add or subtract.
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually "precedes" saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of coming to and receiving Christ.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from sin/completely stop sinning" or else they place repentance "after" saving faith in Christ and define it as self moral-reformation, yet that is not the Biblical definition of repentance. The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. "This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works. We turn to God when we change our mind and place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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Hebrews 5:9 does not read "believes in Jesus and obeys Him." That is you twist in your efforts to teach salvation by works. Hebrews 5:9, simply says - "..He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" and as I already explained to you in post #81,195 - *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith in which they "keep" Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments and practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Yes you do and sadly, you don't even seem to realize it. :( You continue to say that salvation is maintained by obedience/works. So how much obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him keep you saved? :unsure:

And there is a reason for that.

Unbelievers need to obey God/obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16) but not before God draws them and enables them (John 6:44,65).

I DID NOT say that I NEVER sin at all. (1 John 1:8) I said that believers do not "practice" sin - 1 John 3:9 (NASB) The idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. This describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life without goal or effort to stop. Just bring it on!


Re your paragraph no. 1 :
WHAT do you mean???
Here's Hebrews 5:9
9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

HE BECAME TO ALL THOSE WHO OBEY HIM, THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION...
Jesus is the SOURCE of eternal salvation,,,to ALL those who OBEY Him.

IF we want eternal salvation,,,we are required to OBEY Jesus.
I don't need you to tell me in any previous posts...
I've said many times that unbelievers are not required to obey Jesus...they are LOST.
You can't get anymore lost than lost.

We're speaking of BELIEVERS.
To THOSE WHO OBEY HIM, HE is the source of eternal life.
What makes you think UNBELIEVERS obey God???

It seems to me that YOU twist scripture around,,, NOT ME.
I understand it in a simple and plain way and I have no need to twist it around.

Salvation IS maintained by obedience.
Hebrews 5:9 proves it again...
IF WE DO NOT OBEY... Jesus WILL NOT be the source of eternal security
BECAUSE
He is the source of eternal security TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

Easy.

As to your last paragraph re 1 John 3:9,,, you said NOT SIN, you did not say PRACTICE SIN.

Here is what you stated in post no. 81,195:
*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith and "keep" Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments and practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

If you mean PRACTICE SIN, that's what you should say since there is a BIG difference.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Sorry bro,


When the scriptures define for us a word in its context, that is superior to a man made definition.


Example:


Faith -

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1



Faith according to the Strongs. -


The KJV translates Strong's G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x), assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x), fidelity (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
    1. relating to God
      1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
    2. relating to Christ
      1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
    3. the religious beliefs of Christians
    4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
  2. fidelity, faithfulness
  3. the character of one who can be relied on


Don’t get me wrong, Bible dictions are a good place to start, but when the Bible provides us with it’s own definition then we need to adhere to it as our primary source.




JLB
so, in other words, you reject the actual definition of words because the actual definition does not fit your religious beliefs.

no thank you, I will submit myself to the authority of Scripture, accept the definitions of words, and understand we are not saved by works.

you are free to believe whatever you want, but their is only 1 truth.

currently , you are rejecting this truth in favor of your opinions . hopefully one day you will stop doing so, and submit yourself to the authority of Scripture.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Speaking about the CC again? I should bring to your attention how often you bring it up.
I bring it up often with you mainly because your works gospel lines up with their works gospel and I at one time was duped by their works gospel. As I mentioned before, I was in a discussion with a RC who after explaining to me that the RCC does not teach salvation by works, contradicted himself afterwards by making this statement below and you agree with that statement!: :eek:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Maybe it's necessary for you to go the other extreme to abolish what THEY taught you.
I hold to neither extreme. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* :)

BTW, I don't know what they taught you because the CC also believes in salvation by faith alone.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Doesn't sound like "faith alone" to me. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a14.htm

It seems, however, that many overlook
Ephesians 2:10 and all the other scripture that has that horrid word "works/deeds" in it.
It's not a horrid word. What's horrid is when people pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by works. Did Paul say that we are saved through faith, not works or saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9? Did Paul say we are saved for good works or by good works in Ephesians 2:10?

Get over it already!
I'm over it, but as long as you continue to peddle works salvation just as the RCC does, I will continue to call you out on it. ;)
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually "precedes" saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of coming to and receiving Christ.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from sin/completely stop sinning" or else they place repentance "after" saving faith in Christ and define it as self moral-reformation, yet that is not the Biblical definition of repentance. The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. "This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works. We turn to God when we change our mind and place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
You love to complicate things.

You brought up Acts 26:20
but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

And here is Acts is the meaning of what it means to repent.
It means to change one's mind.
To change direction.
To go the other way.

BEFORE one was walking toward satan....on the path of destruction.
They are told to change their mind....
Go in the other direction.
AND TURN TO GOD.

So the direction has been changed...
NOW they are walking toward God.

AND, they are PERFORMING DEEDS appropriate to repentence.

The N.T. is one complete thought and there is no conflict, or discrepancies, in terms or ideas when they are properly understood the way the N.T. writers meant us to understand them.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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so, in other words, you reject the actual definition of words because the actual definition does not fit your religious beliefs.

no thank you, I will submit myself to the authority of Scripture, accept the definitions of words, and understand we are not saved by works.

you are free to believe whatever you want, but their is only 1 truth.

currently , you are rejecting this truth in favor of your opinions . hopefully one day you will stop doing so, and submit yourself to the authority of Scripture.
It's truly sad when someone thinks they know it all and are not willing to listen and maybe learn something.

Perhaps you could listen every now and then and consider what is being said instead of following a false gospel that does not save.
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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It's truly sad when someone thinks they know it all and are not willing to listen and maybe learn something.

Perhaps you could listen every now and then and consider what is being said instead of following a false gospel that does not save.
Hello. What false gospel are we talking about here? Could you explain to me. I know you love me enough to explain it to me.

Its probably in some earlier messages but I only started following this thread recently.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Re your paragraph no. 1 :
WHAT do you mean???
Here's Hebrews 5:9
9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

HE BECAME TO ALL THOSE WHO OBEY HIM, THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION...
Jesus is the SOURCE of eternal salvation,,,to ALL those who OBEY Him.

IF we want eternal salvation,,,we are required to OBEY Jesus.
I don't need you to tell me in any previous posts...
I've said many times that unbelievers are not required to obey Jesus...they are LOST.
You can't get anymore lost than lost.

We're speaking of BELIEVERS.
To THOSE WHO OBEY HIM, HE is the source of eternal life.
What makes you think UNBELIEVERS obey God???

It seems to me that YOU twist scripture around,,, NOT ME.
I understand it in a simple and plain way and I have no need to twist it around.

Salvation IS maintained by obedience.
Hebrews 5:9 proves it again...
IF WE DO NOT OBEY... Jesus WILL NOT be the source of eternal security
BECAUSE
He is the source of eternal security TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

Easy.

As to your last paragraph re 1 John 3:9,,, you said NOT SIN, you did not say PRACTICE SIN.

Here is what you stated in post no. 81,195:
*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith and "keep" Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments and practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

If you mean PRACTICE SIN, that's what you should say since there is a BIG difference.
I already thoroughly explained Hebrews 5:9 to you in in regards to the word "obey" in post #81,195, but unfortunately, the truth continues to go right over your head. :(

You also insist on writing a blank check with the word "obey" then filling in the amount with "salvation by works." You read Hebrew 5:9 as if it says, "to those who believe and obey Him," to imply works salvation, yet that's not what the verse says.

BTW, in my previous post I said "practice" sin. :giggle:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It's truly sad when someone thinks they know it all and are not willing to listen and maybe learn something.

Perhaps you could listen every now and then and consider what is being said instead of following a false gospel that does not save.
Sound advice....when are you going to take it and listen to us....faith plus anything to gain, maintain, keep, embellish, finish or top off salvation is the false gospel you are speaking of...........see Galatians and the words of JESUS concerning the many that name him as Lord and expect to enter based upon their works....exactly what you teach and espouse Fran
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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I already thoroughly explained Hebrews 5:9 to you in in regards to the word "obey" in post #81,195, but unfortunately, the truth continues to go right over your head. :(

You also insist on writing a blank check with the word "obey" then filling in the amount with "salvation by works." You read Hebrew 5:9 as if it says, "to those who believe and obey Him," to imply works salvation, yet that's not what the verse says.

BTW, in my previous post I said "practice" sin. :giggle:
I posted what you wrote.
Could YOU please post where you used the phrase "practice sin" in post no. 81,195 in reference to your last paragraph which we are discussing.

Could you exegete Hebrews 5:9 for me please since I'm so thick headed?
I'd appreciate it.

I said exegete...
NOT eisegete.

Thanks.

BTW, up above you're replying to my post no. 81,349.
Just to keep things straight.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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517
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Sound advice....when are you going to take it and listen to us....faith plus anything to gain, maintain, keep, embellish, finish or top off salvation is the false gospel you are speaking of...........see Galatians and the words of JESUS concerning the many that name him as Lord and expect to enter based upon their works....exactly what you teach and espouse Fran
Listen to "us"?
Who is "us"?

I like to listen to what Jesus said since HE's the one that's going to save my soul for eternity.