Not By Works

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Dec 27, 2018
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Many cannot grasp the truth that a saved man, whose spirit is born from above by incorruptible seed which is eternally justified, sealed and sanctified positionally in Christ does not sin.....and that is WHY WE ARE ETERNALLY SAVED.......yet....that same sinless spirit born of GOD is still bound in a wicked, fallen, sinful body of flesh that is weak, contrary to God and is not subject unto the law of God and ALWAYS seeks to do that which is wrong.....the spirit is indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK<<-This is the law's inherant weakness and why law keeping or some religious hoop jumping will NEVER SAVE ANYONE
Many cannot grasp the truth that a saved man, whose spirit is born from above by incorruptible seed which is eternally justified, sealed and sanctified positionally in Christ does not sin.....and that is WHY WE ARE ETERNALLY SAVED.......yet....that same sinless spirit born of GOD is still bound in a wicked, fallen, sinful body of flesh that is weak, contrary to God and is not subject unto the law of God and ALWAYS seeks to do that which is wrong.....the spirit is indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK<<-This is the law's inherant weakness and why law keeping or some religious hoop jumping will NEVER SAVE ANYONE
The verb “commit” is in the present tense.

The primary function of a verb in Greek is to describe TYPE OF ACTION

The present tense verb “commit”in commit sin Can either denote continual action or repeated action

John is talking about habitual sin as a way of life

A Christian May fall, but sin is not to be his way of life. If it is, eventually if he is a sheep, God will pull him out of what he struggles with

I heard someone say in a sermon I was listening to today that he does not worry about Christians who struggle with sin. He worries about Christians who sin without struggle

So if you sin and have remorse and sorrow that is a very good sign

If you sin and have no remorse and sorrow... very, very BAD sign for you to pay attention to. Examining yourself, not judging others, of course
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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I never heard all this GNOSTIC talk until I came to CC. and I have been to many churches all over the country.

I have heard of gnisticism (is n the bible) bt to say people are gnostic today? Never heard it till I arrived at CC.. and I do not agree with it at all.
Ima scholar on the subject of church history. (Got my degree from the Horseman Academy, top of my class)

And heres the deal and im giving it to you -50%!:

The term "gnostic" covers so many different sects and beliefs that EVERYONE is a gnostic if you really get down to it. What folks usually mean by gnostic, the most common understanding is that its all mystical, Jesus didnt REALLY come in the flesh, because all flesh is automatically evil and bad, and all Spirit is automatically good. Thats why John wrote the epistle to say that if you dont believe Jesus came in the flesh, yous an antichrist! DIRECTLY adressed to that group.

It was popular at the time. But where the rubber really meets the mudhole is that that was just ONE of the many gnostic sects and groups out there. Some folks only took WATER in communion instead of wine, some believed they could sin as much as they want in the flesh and their soul remains pure, some folks believed you needed to be sinlessly perfect and lived sorta like them monastery people live now, just praying and fasting all day long. (Nothing wrong with praying and fasting but if thats all you do, you aint doing much!)

All this meaningless babble of mine to say this: some gnostic ideas are heretical and some can be found in the Bible. JUST LIKE WITH ALL HERETICS. I dont believe the mormons are wrong on EVERYTHING, but they are wrong where it matters! Thats the key here! Lord knows my theology is probably all over the walls and when I get to the judgment seat of Christ im gonna be "HOW did I miss that? WHAT was I thinking!?"
 
Dec 27, 2018
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1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

I will tell you know what I believe, and my friends that you called out here will probably be on board with me, so maybe you'll understand KJV1611 better. The things is, when we believed, and laid our old creature down at the cross, we are hidden as DEAD in Christ. Like Israelites on Passover in their houses.
The law has no jurisdiction over the dead. Since the wrath was already poured upon Jesus at the cross, and if we are dead in Him, there is now therefore no condemnation left for those in Christ.
However, if the old man is dead, it means the new man was born. And this new man is born by the Spirit of God. And by definition Spirit of God can't sin. The new creature in us, thus, hates sin. We are made blameless in Jesus. All sins come from the lusts of the flesh, that fade as we grow in Jesus (Jesus increases in us) and we walk in Spirit. It is faith in Jesus that enables us to "work out" the salvation because we have BELIEVED Jesus that He made us the new creature, and as the result of our faith (even though we still struggle with the flesh yet believed what we couldn't see yet) He grows stronger and bigger, "the Christ is being formed in us" and the old man finally dies and gives out his last zombie scream. lol

For the people who want to abuse and trample the blood of grace, I'd say their old unregenerate man is pretty much alive and kicking.
I agree with what you said. But what he said was in context to me quoting 1Cor 6:9-11. That passage is not meant to say “a Christian can fornicate and not be a fornicator

That would reading your theology into the text instead of letting the text shape your theology.

The same with how people interpret 1 John 3:9. They do not exegete the text, they eisegete their theology into the text
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Ima scholar on the subject of church history. (Got my degree from the Horseman Academy, top of my class)

And heres the deal and im giving it to you -50%!:

The term "gnostic" covers so many different sects and beliefs that EVERYONE is a gnostic if you really get down to it. What folks usually mean by gnostic, the most common understanding is that its all mystical, Jesus didnt REALLY come in the flesh, because all flesh is automatically evil and bad, and all Spirit is automatically good. Thats why John wrote the epistle to say that if you dont believe Jesus came in the flesh, yous an antichrist! DIRECTLY adressed to that group.

It was popular at the time. But where the rubber really meets the mudhole is that that was just ONE of the many gnostic sects and groups out there. Some folks only took WATER in communion instead of wine, some believed they could sin as much as they want in the flesh and their soul remains pure, some folks believed you needed to be sinlessly perfect and lived sorta like them monastery people live now, just praying and fasting all day long. (Nothing wrong with praying and fasting but if thats all you do, you aint doing much!)

All this meaningless babble of mine to say this: some gnostic ideas are heretical and some can be found in the Bible. JUST LIKE WITH ALL HERETICS. I dont believe the mormons are wrong on EVERYTHING, but they are wrong where it matters! Thats the key here! Lord knows my theology is probably all over the walls and when I get to the judgment seat of Christ im gonna be "HOW did I miss that? WHAT was I thinking!?"
There you go. People can sin as much as they want and their soul is pure. Gnostic teaching just as you said. But it was Spirit is pure, not soul. If I am not mistaken. Correct me if I’m wrong

Both gnostic and not found in the Bible, (unless you read your theology into scripture instead of letting scripture shape your theology)

And no. Not everyone is gnostic
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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There you go. People can sin as much as they want and their soul is pure. Gnostic teaching just as you said. But it was Spirit is pure, not soul. If I am not mistaken. Correct me if I’m wrong
Yeah sorry, im just a dumb ole GYPSY WARRIOR I mix up soul and spirit in english CONSTANTLY!
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Ima scholar on the subject of church history. (Got my degree from the Horseman Academy, top of my class)

And heres the deal and im giving it to you -50%!:

The term "gnostic" covers so many different sects and beliefs that EVERYONE is a gnostic if you really get down to it. What folks usually mean by gnostic, the most common understanding is that its all mystical, Jesus didnt REALLY come in the flesh, because all flesh is automatically evil and bad, and all Spirit is automatically good. Thats why John wrote the epistle to say that if you dont believe Jesus came in the flesh, yous an antichrist! DIRECTLY adressed to that group.

It was popular at the time. But where the rubber really meets the mudhole is that that was just ONE of the many gnostic sects and groups out there. Some folks only took WATER in communion instead of wine, some believed they could sin as much as they want in the flesh and their soul remains pure, some folks believed you needed to be sinlessly perfect and lived sorta like them monastery people live now, just praying and fasting all day long. (Nothing wrong with praying and fasting but if thats all you do, you aint doing much!)

All this meaningless babble of mine to say this: some gnostic ideas are heretical and some can be found in the Bible. JUST LIKE WITH ALL HERETICS. I dont believe the mormons are wrong on EVERYTHING, but they are wrong where it matters! Thats the key here! Lord knows my theology is probably all over the walls and when I get to the judgment seat of Christ im gonna be "HOW did I miss that? WHAT was I thinking!?"
So do you believe a person can sin all they want and still be pure? Is that one of the gnostic teachings that is biblical? I don’t think so

That is what Budman argues and was defended by numerous people
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Yeah sorry, im just a dumb ole GYPSY WARRIOR I mix up soul and spirit in english CONSTANTLY!
No prob I do distinguish the difference which is why I brought it up. Soulish is his not the same as spiritual😉

So do you think a person can sin ALL THEY WANT and be pure? Because that is basically what KJV said

@KJV1611
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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So do you believe a person can sin all they want and still be pure? Is that one of the gnostic teachings that is biblical? I don’t think so

That is what Budman argues and was defended by numerous people
Nah I dont believe in that. Here is what I believe, the people who teach that went OVERBOARD on Romans 7! They got it from Romans 7 most likely and just went overboard and threw rest of the Scripture out the window.

Im a weird cat, I look at salvation differently. I dont believe ANYONE can do ANYTHING without God's grace. Thats why I believe the saved will be SANCTIFIED, because its God that sanctifies them, its not us sanctifying ourselves only!

God is at work. Lets not throw God out the picture here!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Ima scholar on the subject of church history. (Got my degree from the Horseman Academy, top of my class)

And heres the deal and im giving it to you -50%!:

The term "gnostic" covers so many different sects and beliefs that EVERYONE is a gnostic if you really get down to it. What folks usually mean by gnostic, the most common understanding is that its all mystical, Jesus didnt REALLY come in the flesh, because all flesh is automatically evil and bad, and all Spirit is automatically good. Thats why John wrote the epistle to say that if you dont believe Jesus came in the flesh, yous an antichrist! DIRECTLY adressed to that group.

It was popular at the time. But where the rubber really meets the mudhole is that that was just ONE of the many gnostic sects and groups out there. Some folks only took WATER in communion instead of wine, some believed they could sin as much as they want in the flesh and their soul remains pure, some folks believed you needed to be sinlessly perfect and lived sorta like them monastery people live now, just praying and fasting all day long. (Nothing wrong with praying and fasting but if thats all you do, you aint doing much!)

All this meaningless babble of mine to say this: some gnostic ideas are heretical and some can be found in the Bible. JUST LIKE WITH ALL HERETICS. I dont believe the mormons are wrong on EVERYTHING, but they are wrong where it matters! Thats the key here! Lord knows my theology is probably all over the walls and when I get to the judgment seat of Christ im gonna be "HOW did I miss that? WHAT was I thinking!?"
I think you hit a nail here

Satan never makes stuff up with is all lies. He mixes lie with truth, So all of his false churches will have some aspect of gruth to it. We should not think otherwise.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Nah I dont believe in that. Here is what I believe, the people who teach that went OVERBOARD on Romans 7! They got it from Romans 7 most likely and just went overboard and threw rest of the Scripture out the window.

Im a weird cat, I look at salvation differently. I dont believe ANYONE can do ANYTHING without God's grace. Thats why I believe the saved will be SANCTIFIED, because its God that sanctifies them, its not us sanctifying ourselves only!

God is at work. Lets not throw God out the picture here!
Here is a verse which proves your point

Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are being sanctified, We are not making ourselves sanctified. Its all Gods work.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Nah I dont believe in that. Here is what I believe, the people who teach that went OVERBOARD on Romans 7! They got it from Romans 7 most likely and just went overboard and threw rest of the Scripture out the window.

Im a weird cat, I look at salvation differently. I dont believe ANYONE can do ANYTHING without God's grace. Thats why I believe the saved will be SANCTIFIED, because its God that sanctifies them, its not us sanctifying ourselves only!

God is at work. Lets not throw God out the picture here!
Never would do such a thing. My posts are ALL about Gods powerful work of grace😃.

Salvation is God’s work from first to last!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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I think you hit a nail here

Satan never makes stuff up with is all lies. He mixes lie with truth, So all of his false churches will have some aspect of gruth to it. We should not think otherwise.
Amen brother!

satan appears as an angel of LIGHT! Beautiful, gorgeous, NOT ugly with a pitchfork! That would have everyone heading for the hills!

the enemy works in the fields of: LIES, DECEPTION, MIRAGES.
God works in the fields of: TRUTH, UPRIGHTNESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, STRAIGHT TALK!
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Here is a verse which proves your point

Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are being sanctified, We are not making ourselves sanctified. Its all Gods work.
“Making ourselves sanctified”. 😮 😧😧😮🤭Who said that?!!!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,071
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Here is a verse which proves your point

Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are being sanctified, We are not making ourselves sanctified. Its all Gods work.
Amen brother. I've always said alot of folks are leaving GOD OUT THE PICTURE COMPLETELY! They read the Bible as a laundry list, a check list. "Well I got all the boxes ticked IM IN!"

God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. And HE WILL complete what He has started, the Bible teaches that plainly. I DONT CARE what anyone got to say.

I know from my personal experience that after all the things that have happened in my life natural and supernatural that God has been with me. I would be DEAD if it wasnt for God's grace. And in case anybody thinks im BOASTING im not im just telling you how it is LORD KNOWS im nothing at all. I dont DESERVE grace, thats the whole point of Grace isnt it? You dont deserve a thing. I deserve damnation but THANK GOD, Jesus set me free from condemnation!
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Amen brother. I've always said alot of folks are leaving GOD OUT THE PICTURE COMPLETELY! They read the Bible as a laundry list, a check list. "Well I got all the boxes ticked IM IN!"

God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. And HE WILL complete what He has started, the Bible teaches that plainly. I DONT CARE what anyone got to say.

I know from my personal experience that after all the things that have happened in my life natural and supernatural that God has been with me. I would be DEAD if it wasnt for God's grace.
Leaving God out of the picture? 😮😮😉😧. Yeah that would be a huge mistake!!!!’
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Here is a verse which proves your point

Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are being sanctified, We are not making ourselves sanctified. Its all Gods work.
Amen to that. Salvation is all God’s work, from beginning to end!!🙂
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The verb “commit” is in the present tense.

The primary function of a verb in Greek is to describe TYPE OF ACTION

The present tense verb “commit”in commit sin Can either denote continual action or repeated action

John is talking about habitual sin as a way of life

A Christian May fall, but sin is not to be his way of life. If it is, eventually if he is a sheep, God will pull him out of what he struggles with

I heard someone say in a sermon I was listening to today that he does not worry about Christians who struggle with sin. He worries about Christians who sin without struggle

So if you sin and have remorse and sorrow that is a very good sign

If you sin and have no remorse and sorrow... very, very BAD sign for you to pay attention to. Examining yourself, not judging others, of course

Now where did you find the Verb Action, for COMMIT. It seems logical, BUT . . . . . . .

the term Commint Sin IS A PHRASE. just one word.

hamartia

Are we talking about 1 John 3:9 ? ? ? Probably not.


But yes, I agree, the when he talks about a Born Again Christian, no longer continues to sin; HE is NOT TALKING ABOUT PERFECTION, But a lifestyle of continually striving to Obey God. It is the Way of our lifestyle, WILL progress. And when we do FAIL, the WAY of our LIFESTYLE, WILL WANT TO CONFESS IT AS A FAILURE TO GOD immediately, 1 John 1:9.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Forgot to mention...

He also said “all things are lawful for christians” MEANS a Christian can fornicate and not be a fornicator.

Post 107,363


I do not make groundless accusations. What I said was fair and accurate

@mailmandan

@Rosemaryx

@ dcontroversial
Hi Mac...
Why did you tag me...
I want to look at the post so I can understand , and thank you...xox...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Your explanation of 1 John 3 is SPOT ON. But kjv doesn’t believe in sinless perfection. He believes that 1 John 3:9 and other verses teach a Christian is sinless even if he or she lives in habitual sin, because it is the old man sinning and not the new man that is sinning. So in his paradigm that makes him sinless. That is how he interprets 1 John 3:9

I disagree with him. I believe God has given us a new nature so that we can put off the old man with his works and put on the new man, created in Christ

We either follow the flesh or the Spirit. He doesn’t seem to understand that

I understood that from the beginning, but still disagree with that theology. I BELIEVE we will NOT BE FREE From the propensity to SIN, until the RESURRECTION. REMEMBER HE SAID A LITTLE LEAVEN LEAVENS THE WHOLE LOAF. We ARE NOT SINLESS UNTIL OUR BODIES ARE CHANGED INTO THE GLORIFIED BODY. WE STILL NEED A SAVIOR! IT IS HIS BLOOD HE SHED ON THE CROSS THE WASHES US WHITE AS SNOW. HIS RIGHTEOUS THAT WE INHERIT, not our own.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (HCSB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your spirit, soul, and body be kept sound and blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Now where did you find the Verb Action, for COMMIT. It seems logical, BUT . . . . . . .

the term Commint Sin IS A PHRASE. just one word.

hamartia

Are we talking about 1 John 3:9 ? ? ? Probably not.


But yes, I agree, the when he talks about a Born Again Christian, no longer continues to sin; HE is NOT TALKING ABOUT PERFECTION, But a lifestyle of continually striving to Obey God. It is the Way of our lifestyle, WILL progress. And when we do FAIL, the WAY of our LIFESTYLE, WILL WANT TO CONFESS IT AS A FAILURE TO GOD immediately, 1 John 1:9.
I think we just have to also look at another part of the same passage

whoever sins has NEVER SEEN OR KNOWN GOD.

using his interpretation. As committing a personal sin. No one here has ever seen or known God.