Not By Works

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stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
Yes I was a christian for years when I becambecame aware how dead in sin but when you expresed criticisem, picking verses out of conext I stoped reading further, not wishing to be drawn into an argument. We are here to grow in Love and this is the work of God by the Holy Spirit that we participate in.
But they did miss the rest of God and not until Jesus went back and offered it through grace did they receive. But they had all died before they received it. God worked then rested when the work was done. Jesus worked and then rested when the work was done. Doesn't it make sense to you THAT IN THE WAY OF REST FROM LABOURS, we should finish our labour before we rest also?? We are already resting from the burden of the law. Now you don't want to work either when there is so much work to be done??? How does Gods Word get spread to the whole world if all those who come to Christ stop and rest???
We work from a place of rest, just as Jesus did when he was accused of doing work on the day off rest. "Until now my Father works and i work." As we learn of the Lord in humility as friends of God, we obtain rest for our soul. But that the church has not entered into rest is evident in the Lord adressing the seven churches in Revelations. Only philadelfia did not receive discipline because they were walking in Love, yet even to them the Lord said "The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of My God."
If there was no work for us as labourers together with God. Nothing would have been mentioned to the Churches.
But just the same, God does not need our help, we need His help. I shared here before that when I got involved in an argument over the Truth, there Lord told me: I don't need your help. This is the correct understanding of not by works: God dosent need our help for His Work, we need His help. But neither was this received here, it's sais in the word that those who quarrel are babes in Christ. Dont be surprised that you will be rejected here and I enncourage you agan not to be dran into quarels.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,251
4,196
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"How does "and your works do follow you" imprison anyone new to the faith? It is a part of the faith. Is it possible to find the fullness of Jesus Christ without them? I think people understand what a gift is.
Christians coming to the faith today are not "taught' they are under the law of Moses but of the grace of God They are taught Christ from the first words they hear.

Is it possible to learn the truth and fullness of Gods 'grace' without a study of the old Testament?

You are a worker bee. Quite a hard worker bee in fact. Every post you post is a 'work'

I TOTALLY DISAGREE, with your statement: Every post you post is a 'work'.

IF you do it with the correct MOTIVE, which is because YOU LOVE HIM, and the BRETHREN; it is an act of LOVE, not a work.


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
{THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DONE BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM.}

1 John 2:5 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:
{To do something for the LORD or The Brethren, without that AGAPE LOVE, is nothing more than Filthy RAGS.}

1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,251
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Yes, someone did keep the law perfectly. And it isn't about being justified by the works of the law, it is getting PAST being justified, PAST being saved, getting PAST being made righteous, PAST the very first steps, PAST the 'milk' and ON TO THE MEAT so that you can be USEFUL to God. Learning the "deeper" things.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

I think you have made an ERROR in Interpretation.

OBEDIENCE is part of OUR AGAPE LOVE, and where does that come from ? ? ?

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,251
4,196
113
But

What did he tell me correctly?? And why did he mention it at all? What post of mine caused him to bring it up? Because I can't find anything I said in any post that would have caused the reply, or quote or THE FALSE ACCUSATION.

Can't you just REJOICE in learning what God Meant by a Day, INSTEAD OF ASSUMING IN ERROR THAT IT IS WHAT WE CALL A DAY IN OUR AGE ? ? ? Why do you have to tie it to something you said ? ? ?
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
66
Walk trough the valley
My works have nothing to do with anything but my love of the Father. What I am trying to say is "BEING SAVED IS THE START OF THE JOURNEY" and to move on. Encourage others to move out of the starting gate. Don't discourage works for God. Jesus worked, not for a promotion, but out of love for the Father and the brethren. Paul worked, not for a promotion but out of love for the Father. We should work not for a promotion but out of love of the Father.

So when I posted this,"Yes, Savedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsaved…..and then there was more to Gods Word/Plan. How's that promotion going??" It was about trying to get past "the gift of salvation". How's that promotion going?? was about how "un" fulfilling and unproductive just being saved is after you have been there for such a long time. It has nothing to do with me being selfish, though you seeing it that way is, in fact, interesting to me.
Any words for God on that??? That statement really hasn't taught me anything, has it? Just kinda condemning me without any building back up from the Truth in the Word.
I don't understand how my use of quotation marks "enlightens" you as to my knowledge or lack thereof. Please, give me scripture as I have done of how "rest" is to be understood.
To explain further on the Church of Philadelphia: the only one of seven walking in Love.
The recommendation of the Lord, "Behold I set before you an open door and no-one can shut it." These are permitted to go on to perfection, this can't be attained by works and obviously even babes can understand this, but until they continually repent of the dead works that they know can't help them, to walk in the Love of Christ and suffer with Him to cease from Sin (only possible by His Spirit), until then they are not permitted to go on to perfection and there is nothing you or I or anyone can do to help, other than to pray, yet for some the Lord won't direct you to pray because by judging others they are putting themselves under judgment, and wont be forgiven even if you pray, they are in danger of rejecting the Holy Spirit.
In the case of d controversial, the Lord told me, let Him remain a babe. If we have unresolved anger we are not permitted to go on to perfection. I had a friend in this case and the Lord told me: don't expect him to grow up. I had to break fellowship with Him. It sais, "With an angry man you shall not go, lest you learn his ways and be like Him. We are influenced by the company we keep more than we realirealise and had to face turning away from anger.
I encouraged you to look at the study journal on my page, its about going on to perfection. Only the first half fits there. I can email you the whole. 2 hours of reading. You should also not be surprized that few enter in the Straight gate. "Strive to enter in at the Straight gate for I say to you that many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able." Jesus is the door, and only as we walk in the Light we have, to get more Light; walking by "Faith that Works by Love," do we find fellowship with Him and are cleansed.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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What Christian has ever been "under the law of Moses"? Not one. Not a single one. Never.
What Christian has ever been yoked to the law of Moses? not one
What Christian has ever died under the law of Moses? not one
What Christian has ever BEEN ABLE TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES? NOT ONE BECAUSE

Christians are of Christ and to become one you are taught CHRIST, SON OF GOD, WORD MADE FLESH, WHO DIED FOR OUR SINS, and THROUGH HIS BLOOD we find upon REPENTANCE, FORGIVENESS for our sins, and BY HIS STRIPES we are healed.

THAT IS THE BEGINNING OF BEING A CHRISTIAN. NO ANIMAL SACRIFICE EVER. WHY? THAT WAS THE LAW OF MOSES. AND ALL CHRISTIANS KNOW IT.

Paul may have had to fight "judaziers" but you don't. You just have to fight those who are following the command of JESUS to not abolish the law. Tell me how many Christians have you ever known or heard of sacrificed an animal for the forgiveness of their sins? I'll bet not one.
I love you sis, but how you can not see how contradictory you are in these words is unfathomable to Me!

you can not say we are at rest from the law, then say we must follow any part of it.

the law has one goal, to take you to your knees and lead you to christ, If it has not done this yet, you need to search your heart and find out if you have found christ

if it has, then you must ask yourself how you can go back to it and think it will help you any more, since its Job has been completed in your life

the law is not abolished, As long as there is unsaved people on earth, it still has a job to do.

As long as you are trying to tell people who are saved they must still obey part of the law. You are placing yourself and then under a burden they can not carry, because no one can keep the law. THAT WAS ITS PURPOSE. To show them, you can not follow it. thus you NEED CHRIST.

 
Dec 12, 2013
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I love you sis, but how you can not see how contradictory you are in these words is unfathomable to Me!

you can not say we are at rest from the law, then say we must follow any part of it.

the law has one goal, to take you to your knees and lead you to christ, If it has not done this yet, you need to search your heart and find out if you have found christ

if it has, then you must ask yourself how you can go back to it and think it will help you any more, since its Job has been completed in your life

the law is not abolished, As long as there is unsaved people on earth, it still has a job to do.

As long as you are trying to tell people who are saved they must still obey part of the law. You are placing yourself and then under a burden they can not carry, because no one can keep the law. THAT WAS ITS PURPOSE. To show them, you can not follow it. thus you NEED CHRIST.
Amen and Galatians is clear......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
What Christian has ever been "under the law of Moses"? Not one. Not a single one. Never.
What Christian has ever been yoked to the law of Moses? not one
What Christian has ever died under the law of Moses? not one
What Christian has ever BEEN ABLE TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES? NOT ONE BECAUSE

Christians are of Christ and to become one you are taught CHRIST, SON OF GOD, WORD MADE FLESH, WHO DIED FOR OUR SINS, and THROUGH HIS BLOOD we find upon REPENTANCE, FORGIVENESS for our sins, and BY HIS STRIPES we are healed.

THAT IS THE BEGINNING OF BEING A CHRISTIAN. NO ANIMAL SACRIFICE EVER. WHY? THAT WAS THE LAW OF MOSES. AND ALL CHRISTIANS KNOW IT.

Paul may have had to fight "judaziers" but you don't. You just have to fight those who are following the command of JESUS to not abolish the law. Tell me how many Christians have you ever known or heard of sacrificed an animal for the forgiveness of their sins? I'll bet not one.
DeighAnn, maybe I am just slow on the draw and unable to comprehend what you have been writing, so can you clarify, do you believe salvation must be maintained by follow the law or works?
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,132
17,522
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DeighAnn, maybe I am just slow on the draw and unable to comprehend what you have been writing, so can you clarify, do you believe salvation must be maintained by follow the law or works?
I do not think she does

she just things we still have to follow the law AFTER we are saved as a means of growth
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
Yes I was a christian for years when I becambecame aware how dead in sin but when you expresed criticisem, picking verses out of conext I stoped reading further, not wishing to be drawn into an argument. We are here to grow in Love and this is the work of God by the Holy Spirit that we participate in.

We work from a place of rest, just as Jesus did when he was accused of doing work on the day off rest. "Until now my Father works and i work." As we learn of the Lord in humility as friends of God, we obtain rest for our soul. But that the church has not entered into rest is evident in the Lord adressing the seven churches in Revelations. Only philadelfia did not receive discipline because they were walking in Love, yet even to them the Lord said "The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of My God."
If there was no work for us as labourers together with God. Nothing would have been mentioned to the Churches.
But just the same, God does not need our help, we need His help. I shared here before that when I got involved in an argument over the Truth, there Lord told me: I don't need your help. This is the correct understanding of not by works: God dosent need our help for His Work, we need His help. But neither was this received here, it's sais in the word that those who quarrel are babes in Christ. Dont be surprised that you will be rejected here and I enncourage you agan not to be dran into quarels.
Thank you for ALL of that. I was "in" this thread few months back and realized my peace was taking a hit so I moved to another couple threads. I was all happy and content but someone "drew" me back. I do agree, we work from a place of rest, yet we don't rest from our work till the work is done. Who do you believe this is written to/for?

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And absolutely, God does not need our help, but there are rewards for the works.

Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

God tells us again and again to DO. Go, teach, baptize, love, show mercy, take care of widows and the poor, be charitable etc. There will be no evil that makes it into the New Jerusalem. But just as before, and now, there will be kings, and queens, and princes, and priests, and all kinds of vessels, some to honor some to dishonor. How does a Just God do justice? We are making our own place for eternity. Why else would our works follow us?

What do you think the eternal rewards for having spent you "freewill given make any choice you want life" still loving God far above anything in this world. Not to mention, the fine linen is made from the righteous acts of the saints.

We are told of the gulf, a separation of souls. When Jesus returns the sheep from the goats, in the Millennium a "river" that can't be passed over. God tells us again and again. But some do not hear, or see anything past what "some man/woman" has told them and because they never take the time to study on their own, when Judgement comes they are going to be "saved" but very naked.

God has a plan. We are part of that plan. We have to show ourselves approved. I'll stop. Sorry, it just comes out. Anyway thank you again, it is truly appreciated. Love your stillness.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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biblehub.com
Interesting, wow, for me the law was a grace killer not a means of growth by any stretch.
Maybe they didn't get the memo.......

Acts 15:23-29
They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, [h]saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual[j] immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Thank you for ALL of that. I was "in" this thread few months back and realized my peace was taking a hit so I moved to another couple threads. I was all happy and content but someone "drew" me back. I do agree, we work from a place of rest, yet we don't rest from our work till the work is done. Who do you believe this is written to/for?

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And absolutely, God does not need our help, but there are rewards for the works.

Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

God tells us again and again to DO. Go, teach, baptize, love, show mercy, take care of widows and the poor, be charitable etc. There will be no evil that makes it into the New Jerusalem. But just as before, and now, there will be kings, and queens, and princes, and priests, and all kinds of vessels, some to honor some to dishonor. How does a Just God do justice? We are making our own place for eternity. Why else would our works follow us?

What do you think the eternal rewards for having spent you "freewill given make any choice you want life" still loving God far above anything in this world. Not to mention, the fine linen is made from the righteous acts of the saints.

We are told of the gulf, a separation of souls. When Jesus returns the sheep from the goats, in the Millennium a "river" that can't be passed over. God tells us again and again. But some do not hear, or see anything past what "some man/woman" has told them and because they never take the time to study on their own, when Judgement comes they are going to be "saved" but very naked.

God has a plan. We are part of that plan. We have to show ourselves approved. I'll stop. Sorry, it just comes out. Anyway thank you again, it is truly appreciated. Love your stillness.
DeighAnn you seem to have a different view now, where works are for rewards... have you changed your position?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
I TOTALLY DISAGREE, with your statement: Every post you post is a 'work'.

IF you do it with the correct MOTIVE, which is because YOU LOVE HIM, and the BRETHREN; it is an act of LOVE, not a work.


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
{THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DONE BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM.}

1 John 2:5 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:
{To do something for the LORD or The Brethren, without that AGAPE LOVE, is nothing more than Filthy RAGS.}

1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
I can understand that
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
I think you have made an ERROR in Interpretation.

OBEDIENCE is part of OUR AGAPE LOVE, and where does that come from ? ? ?

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Perfectly stopping any forward progress and back to the doctrine of Christ.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
Can't you just REJOICE in learning what God Meant by a Day, INSTEAD OF ASSUMING IN ERROR THAT IT IS WHAT WE CALL A DAY IN OUR AGE ? ? ? Why do you have to tie it to something you said ? ? ?[/QUOTE


]Let me just say it another way, I have no idea what he, and now you are talking about. None. Not the reference, not your "explanation" and not this either. I can't tie anything to anything, comprenez vous??
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Not by works lest any man should boast <-- exactly why salvation is by grace through faith....NO MAN can boast in anything but Christ!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,181
4,910
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DeighAnn you seem to have a different view now, where works are for rewards... have you changed your position?
in order for that to happen , she would have to have a consistent position. she is all over the place. that is what thinking that the Law is divided into half a dozen pieces will do.


I mean, back in the summer, while on another thread, she told me that believed in the double Sabbath/ Jesus rose on the Sabbath conspiracy theory, then yesterday claimed to not know when the Sabbath was....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
in order for that to happen , she would have to have a consistent position. she is all over the place. that is what thinking that the Law is divided into half a dozen pieces will do.


I mean, back in the summer, while on another thread, she told me that believed in the double Sabbath/ Jesus rose on the Sabbath conspiracy theory, then yesterday claimed to not know when the Sabbath was....
Interesting.

They cannot be consistent because scripture does not support their ideas.