Not By Works

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Nov 16, 2019
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Notice in Matthew 15:13 that Jesus said every plant that my Heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.
I'm sure there is a fancy name for this fallacy of logic.

The fallacy of logic here is suggesting that because all plants the Father did not plant will be uprooted that means no plant the Father did plant will be uprooted.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The only way you can be twice dead, is it you are dead (like we all were in Adam), were made alive (only in Christ), then died again (Falling away from the faith). Any other explanation is simply twisting scripture.

If you are dead you are dead. Being twice dead when you are already dead means nothing. Being twice dead ordinarily means there was life in-between.
The second death

All who die physically in this lifetimes spiritually dead. Will suffer that second death.

All who were made alive in CHrist, will die physically. But will not suffer the second death.

Why do you fight against the power of salvation?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm sure there is a fancy name for this fallacy of logic.

The fallacy of logic here is suggesting that because all plants the Father did not plant will be uprooted that means no plant the Father did plant will be uprooted.
The fallacy of this logic.

It assumes something God plants will die, because God did not take care of it. So he will have to uproot it as. Dead plant.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We are justified through the faith that God gives.
He gives the evidence of the things not seen (that's called 'faith'-Hebrews 11:1), then we must believe that evidence in order to be justified.
Just having the evidence from God that the things not seen really are true doesn't justify/save anybody.
It is through the evidence from God that the things not seen are true that we then believe and are justified.

If you see the difference between faith (knowing something is true) and believing (putting your trust in what you now know to be true) you'd see that a person receives the gift of eternal life through faith that leads to believing/trusting. I have that gift because I am right now believing and trusting in what God has shown me to be true about the gospel that I can not see with my eyes.


We all know this. I don't see anyone here saying we earn a declaration of righteousness through the merit of works. But, please, if I missed those posts, show me.
So God gives us fault faith. A faith which can be lost. Even though god NEVER becomes unfaithful..

:ROFL:

I praise God he is far greater than the God you make him out to be.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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I already explain the passage to you. Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, andPRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. (y)
Why does Jude warn them if they cannot lose salvation?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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I already explain the passage to you. Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, andPRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. (y)
Why should they CONTEND FOR THE FAITH, if faith cannot be lost?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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How do we overcome?

1 John 4:4
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1 John 5:5
Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

That John gets you every time, Remembr the same John that wrote 1 John is the same John who wrote revelations.

When are you going to start believing John? And stop making him contradict himself and Jesus and the rest of scripture?

And who defiled their garments? Lets see, Whoever sinned.

That would be all of us, you included.

Good luck trying to earn your salvation man.
Revelation 3 (also written by John) speaks for itself.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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The second death

All who die physically in this lifetimes spiritually dead. Will suffer that second death.

All who were made alive in CHrist, will die physically. But will not suffer the second death.

Why do you fight against the power of salvation?
Jude says they are already twice dead.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I do. So I am saved? I think I need to fast the self-righteousness out of me. @mailmandan What church do you go to?
Precious child of the Father.

Know this one thing and always remember this.

Our Father in heaven loves you as much as he loves Jesus.
This love is an Agape love.
It's that love that hung on the cross for you.
It's that love that was willing to take our punishment upon him.
It's that love sought you out and drew towards him.
It's that love that has adopted you as his child.

You are saved by that love as a result of faith in Jesus.
That is the only thing that saves you.

Now you love because he first loved you.
It's that love we aspire to walk in.

Saved by faith unto good works.
Works of love but not for salvation.

John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Who is blotted out from the Book of Life?
Ans: Those who DON'T overcome

Who are those who DON'T overcome?
Ans: Those who have DEFILED their garments.
Do a bit of research on 'litotes" it is very helpful so understand different literary devices.

Aside from that ......... to think we can overcome as Jesus overcame is the penultimate gospel of self worth and works.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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How do we overcome?

1 John 4:4
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1 John 5:5
Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

That John gets you every time, Remembr the same John that wrote 1 John is the same John who wrote revelations.

When are you going to start believing John? And stop making him contradict himself and Jesus and the rest of scripture?

And who defiled their garments? Lets see, Whoever sinned.

That would be all of us, you included.

Good luck trying to earn your salvation man.
I was reading through the book of 1 John recently. What helped you understand it all, especially passages like 1 John 3:6, 9-10?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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We are justified through the faith that God gives.
He gives the evidence of the things not seen (that's called 'faith'-Hebrews 11:1), then we must believe that evidence in order to be justified.
Just having the evidence from God that the things not seen really are true doesn't justify/save anybody.
It is through the evidence from God that the things not seen are true that we then believe and are justified.

If you see the difference between faith (knowing something is true) and believing (putting your trust in what you now know to be true) you'd see that a person receives the gift of eternal life through faith that leads to believing/trusting. I have that gift because I am right now believing and trusting in what God has shown me to be true about the gospel that I can not see with my eyes.
Are you disagreeing with Galatians 2:16? The faith of Jesus Christ justifies the believer. The instance one believes the gospel, that person is justified by Christ’s faith, His righteousness imputed.

From that point on, our individual faith is God’s word helps us labor for Him. This individual faith and labor does not justify or keep us saved, but the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith never waivers.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jude says they are already twice dead.
Ah, jude

Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of [e]dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in [f]contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Apostates Depraved and Doomed
12 These are [g]spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving onlythemselves. They are clouds without water, carried [h]about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Apostates Predicted
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are [i]sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

Your gonna tell me these people lost salvation? they were saved at one time? They were made new creatures? They were saved from their sins?

Jude answered your question. Their condemnation was foretold and predetermined. Hence twice dead. Even though they had not yet suffered their final judgment or the second death. Yet it was foretold. Because GOD KNOWS THE HEART!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You have the contradiction. Not me.
Lets see

John said we overcome by recieving christ, a completed act

You say thats not tru, and we only overcome if we overcome in our own power.

Yet the contradiction is on me. Thanks I needed a good laugh!

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Why do you divorce Rev 3v4 and 3v5 as if they don't belong in the same bible?
Nope

because they have not defiled their garments by overcoming, How did they overcome?

John answered that question already, By faith in Christ.

Next!!