Not By Works

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Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
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Have you never received a red x kangaroo mate? I have, on this thread I think. I can't remember.
i love you. no i cant remember getting some. i think only few people gave it to me in that thread about hell where i said its eternal torment.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,186
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God knows the heart.
He knows the beginning from the end.
So, yes, he does not need our works to show we are righteous. He knows that already.
After all, he is the one who made us righteous anyway.
But, so he won't be charged with unfairness, Jesus will use our works as the evidence for or against us in regard to whether or not we will enter into the kingdom (Matthew 25:31-46).


Choose whatever word you want to use.
Works are the outward sign that you are in genuine covenant with God (think circumcision and Sabbath rest).
The person who has put off the flesh in spiritual circumcision and has entered into Sabbath rest from his work of sin shows he has a transformation that only happens when a person is justified in Jesus Christ.


You do works of righteous BECAUSE you have been justified through faith.
It's only because you have been justified by the blood of Christ that you can live a changed life.
That's why works are the outward evidence/proof of inward change.
lordship salvation on display right here.

backdoor works salvationism.

throw it out with the rest of the garbage.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,074
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@dcontroversal , a music video I think you may like.

@PS please watch and show respect for the military some members of which have suffered the loss of their lives for the sake of other's freedom.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
lordship salvation on display right here.

backdoor works salvationism.

throw it out with the rest of the garbage.
whats wrong with lordship salvation? VCO made a good post about it not long ago. where he said God pours love into our hearts and so on. im sure you have seen the post he makes. i agree with it.

unless you mean something else.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
113

@dcontroversal , a music video I think you may like.

@PS please watch and show respect for the military some members of which have suffered the loss of their lives for the sake of other's freedom.
The military do a good job, huge respect. Trolls who ignore scripture they do not like, no respect at all.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
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She loves me, she loves me not.
Works saves me, works saves me not.
Make up your mind.
The person who does not have a changed/ changing life has not been justified in Christ. He has not been circumcised by the Holy Spirit. He has not entered into Sabbath Rest in Christ.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Wrong, in regards to being justified we either have our own works or the imputed righteousness of Jesus without works.


In either case we need to be 100% spotless and every thought word and deed is brought into question at once.


Those who God started in are covered.


Those who He never abided in will be judged by their own righteousness.
I can tell you didn't really comprehend what I posted.

Answer these for me. (you, too, @gb9 )

According to this passage, what will happen to barren, thorny 'fields'?
And what things does the passage say accompany salvation?

7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. - Hebrews 6:7-10


Is the author wrong?
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
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lordship salvation on display right here.

backdoor works salvationism.

throw it out with the rest of the garbage.
Is the author of Hebrews teaching Lordship salvation/ backdoor works salvationism here?

7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. - Hebrews 6:7-10
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
That doesn't sound like the calvinism which I have heard of, but denominations or habits of some fractions within the denominations aside I think it is very important to remember that without Jesus, all of us have no hope ... rightfully so... and in Jesus... we ought to have comfort and knowing in HIM we are safe....
Proof of salvation is definitely a topic Calvin wrote about extensively..

"external marks by which repentance is shown to be sincere"
Ins., III 3, 9
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,396
2,180
113
Proof of salvation is definitely a topic Calvin wrote about extensively..

"external marks by which repentance is shown to be sincere"
Ins., III 3, 9
My point is I have not heard of what you said in context from anyone who claimed that denomination, but I stay away from that kinda talk and focus on individuals.


So often someone tries to pin something to me with some general statement or a denomination. I dislike that they use trigger words and don't engage in a true one on one while assuming I hold beliefs before it is brought up in discussion.


I don't know enough or care enough to look into a denomination itself. I've been down too many rabbit holes and would rather talk to the individual about what they believe a verse to mean and why....

(not assuming you're wrong or right, just not joining in on anything against a denomination I know very little about)

Lol I know catholics who say praying to marry is wrong and purgatory is a myth🤦‍♂️

but they still call themselves catholic...
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,186
4,916
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Is the author of Hebrews teaching Lordship salvation/ backdoor works salvationism here?

7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. - Hebrews 6:7-10
Hebrews is a letter. just isolating a few words out of it, or any letter, is invalid. read and apply all of it.

now, a real life question-

I have a pecan tree. 3 years ago, it yielded a huge crop of pecans.
since then, it has produced mostly bad fruits. ( nuts in this case, but the same principal).

now, is the pecan tree in danger of ceasing of being a pecan tree, due to a few seasons of little work??
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
My point is I have not heard of what you said in context from anyone who claimed that denomination, but I stay away from that kinda talk and focus on individuals.


So often someone tries to pin something to me with some general statement or a denomination. I dislike that they use trigger words and don't engage in a true one on one while assuming I hold beliefs before it is brought up in discussion.


I don't know enough or care enough to look into a denomination itself. I've been down too many rabbit holes and would rather talk to the individual about what they believe a verse to mean and why....

(not assuming you're wrong or right, just not joining in on anything against a denomination I know very little about)

Lol I know catholics who say praying to marry is wrong and purgatory is a myth🤦‍♂️

but they still call themselves catholic...
I think you misunderstood me maybe:unsure:

.. I was agreeing with you about proof...
I do not regard Calvin a trigger word.. I like a lot of what he states but definitely it was his contention that works had to follow faith pretty much how Judges sees it....

Calvin's ideas have permeated doctrine throughout history both the good and that not so good.

My point is the idea that "proof must exist" goes back to the Reformation and I myself do not see it supported by scripture.

Hope I have clarified.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,396
2,180
113
I think you misunderstood me maybe:unsure:

.. I was agreeing with you about proof...
I do not regard Calvin a trigger word.. I like a lot of what he states but definitely it was his contention that works had to follow faith pretty much how Judges sees it....

Calvin's ideas have permeated doctrine throughout history both the good and that not so good.

My point is the idea that "proof must exist" goes back to the Reformation and I myself do not see it supported by scripture.

Hope I have clarified.

No I understood you right away.😅

I was happy you agreed with my point but then made a distiction on purpose. I don't cosign about anything to do with calvinism be it good or bad because of my lack of information.


(i know you werent using a trigger word, lol I hope you don't think I was accusing you of anything, not even being incorrect about what you claimed about calvinists or calvinism)