Not By Works

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Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
Yes, that Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices and pilgrimages is done away.

What about the Moral Law? Is the Christian free to rob bank or must he follow "Thou shalt not steal"?
God never criticized Israel because they failed to keep feasts and ceremonies etc because they did but their hearts were far from Him.

do you want to rob banks? the law is for sinners.

If we are walking in the Spirit we will not envy or want what belongs to someone else, we trust God for all He will do and provide for us.

... some do not believe that provision is part of redemption the real sin is lack of faith.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.”

Romans 5:1-5( KJV)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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John
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

We need to tell men this. The ball is then in their court. They can humbly confess it's truth, or they can reject it and go to hell. We can only do so much, and then it is between them and their Maker. (Unless they are one of those lucky-dog Calvinists who are born with everything preset on automatic-in.)
I recognize how repulsive double predestination sounds, but I have to grapple with the question of 'Who saves me if what I need to be saved from is unbelief?' and it seems to me that it cannot come from myself because 'myself' is the problem that needs to be remedied.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Those are good verses
Yes, they are :) Wow, I did not realize it had been so many days since this ^^

Any who, the panel is finally done. It did take a bit longer because I was trying
to use Audrey Hepburn's face, and finally decided after many hours that I would
just go with this face instead. I will probably use Audrey's face at another time :)




1 John 5:11-13 :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
43,476
18,073
113
“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.”
Romans 5:1-5( KJV)


It may be time to redo this one :unsure::oops::giggle:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Yes, this is their popular circular argument that I have already raised somewhere in this thread.

You are saved by faith alone apart from works
But if there are no works after that, then your faith is dead and you are not really saved.
It's only circular when you maintain that 'works' are something originating in people. But the Bible doesn't say that - the Bible says it is God working in the saved both to will and to do.

So the works that follow salvation are evidence of that salvation, absolutely, but if there are none, even in the heart unseen by men, then the implications are that God is not at work in the person, because salvation is of God, not of ourselves.

It cannot be that God fails - so the criticism of, as they put it, 'OSAS' is built on a total mischaraterization of salvation, presenting an imaginary person that is truly saved but in whom no change of heart is found.

This is a contradiction of the very meaning of salvation because salvation is a supernatural work of God acting on and in a person. God does not fail and God is not unfaithful to complete what He begins.

Opponents of the faithfulness of God to preserve and redeem the saved portray a person in whom God is not at work, and portray a salvation dependent on a person's will and a person's works, a completely carnal description of our redemption in which God plays no part.

It is no wonder they live in constant fear that their salvation is in jeapordy of being lost, because they believe that they are the ones upon whom the burden of being saved lies - what folly it is to put our trust in man, even in ourselves! We all agree on that.

But the critic then accuses all who do not put their trust in themselves, of practicing and excusing sin. Why?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Peter thought that way once, but then he met up with a bunch of chickens that taught him otherwise. And then he tried out that water walking thing. God is always faithful, but our faith waivers at times.
I believe Peter ran across the water in John 21
 
Aug 3, 2019
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God never criticized Israel because they failed to keep feasts and ceremonies etc because they did but their hearts were far from Him.

do you want to rob banks? the law is for sinners.

If we are walking in the Spirit we will not envy or want what belongs to someone else, we trust God for all He will do and provide for us.

... some do not believe that provision is part of redemption the real sin is lack of faith.
We're told to have the faith of children, not the intelligence of them.

"The law is for sinners" cannot be interpreted as you all do: that we don't have to follow it. Why? Because James tells us that we have to continue to look in it and not be forgetful about what we see - compliance or opposition to it.

"The law is for sinners, not for Christians" has to do with the purpose of it: a giant "YOU ARE HERE" arrow pointing the pathway to the Cross (Romans 10:4 KJV). Christians don't need to be told the purpose of the law because they are supposed to have already accepted Jesus as both their Savior from sin and Lord to obey.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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God never criticized Israel because they failed to keep feasts and ceremonies etc because they did but their hearts were far from Him.

do you want to rob banks? the law is for sinners.

If we are walking in the Spirit we will not envy or want what belongs to someone else, we trust God for all He will do and provide for us.

... some do not believe that provision is part of redemption the real sin is lack of faith.
So, which is it? Is the Christian obligated to keep the Ten Commandments or are we free to disregard them? There is no Spiritual Switzerland (only Spiritual Israel ;) ) so, it's either the one or the other.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
If I'm a robot, then I'm a 1968 HAL compared to all the 2021 Honda Asimos running around yelling "Legalist!!!" ;)

BTW, you should probably learn what it means to "judge" from a Biblical standpoint (hint: it isn't calling out false doctrine).
I know what it means to "discern" from the bible but I most certainly understand what the bible says about "judge not, least ye be judged."
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
It's worth pointing out that offer is to save us "from" our sin, not in our sin, according to Scripture. We accept the offer by surrendering our will to His will and He gives us both Pardon for sin and Power to live for Him; a wonderfully beautiful arrangement that has absolutely no need of a OSAS License to Sin, just as no husband who loves his wife needs a license to fool around with other women.

There you go again with the analogy of husband cheating on wife. Is that the only example you have? You seem stuck on that one item. Your analogy of the "sin" scripture pertaining to salvation is distorted. "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" We are saved from our sins, past, present and future. Yes, we are to live as much like our Lord and Savior as possible through the power of the Holy Spirit. But as long as any human is alive on this planet, there will be a war between our sinful self and our spiritual, forgiven self.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
As a non-Calvinist, I say both sin and salvation are a choice we make. Jesus had no advantage over us in resisting temptation, lest the devil seized upon that as a platform to accuse God of injustice a long time ago.

That's why Paul said in Hebrews 12 to us that when we think we're just gonna DIE if we don't indulge that darling sinful habit we love so much, look to Jesus and all He put up with. Paul says unless your fight against temptation is so fierce that you start sweating great drops of blood, he doesn't wanna hear one word about how "we can't keep the law".
I certainly hope you do not compare yourself to Jesus Christ and His ability to overcome temptation. If you do, that in itself is sacrilege
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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James tells us that we have to continue to look in it and not be forgetful about what we see
That doesn't explain why you are always going around accusing people of sin because they put no confidence in the flesh. The law itself says, the LORD does not delight in the strength of men, and that whoever has their trust in man, is a fool.

Do you read the law, then look away and forget what it tells you? The very next thing given to Israel after the decalogue is the law of building an altar. Why? Because they, the ones who just swore to keep the law, are going to be making a whole heaping lot of sin and trespass offerings.

What is it that makes you so angry with people who are not scared God is going to lose them? Why does the fact that God will never utterly forsake His people piss you off so much?
 
Aug 3, 2019
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I know what it means to "discern" from the bible but I most certainly understand what the bible says about "judge not, least ye be judged."
I disagree, because you claim those who call out the false doctrine of OSAS are "judging" those who adhere to it. "Judge not" means "do not judge motive or eternal destiny". Example:

"You believe OSAS because your love of sin is greater than your love of Jesus." (Motive)
"You're going to hell because you believe in OSAS." (Eternal Destiny)

If anyone tells you or any other OSAS person that, let me know and I will gladly stand next to you and denounce them as antichrist for "taking Christ's place" on His throne of judgment. ("Anti-Christ" literally means in Greek to "take the place of Christ").
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,450
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Do not know what this image did not show up on my post #151,163 .

1616966549998.png

Yes, that reminds me of a cabin on the Crystal River, in Heaven.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
43,476
18,073
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I disagree, because you claim those who call out the false doctrine of OSAS are "judging" those who adhere to it. "Judge not" means "do not judge motive or eternal destiny". Example:

"You believe OSAS because your love of sin is greater than your love of Jesus." (Motive)
"You're going to hell because you believe in OSAS." (Eternal Destiny)

If anyone tells you or any other OSAS person that, let me know and I will gladly stand next to you and denounce them as antichrist for "taking Christ's place" on His throne of judgment. ("Anti-Christ" literally means in Greek to "take the place of Christ").
You are judging motive a lot, as this post (and many others much like it) shows:
Ahhhhhhh, I see it now...your spirit is willing but your flesh is weak which is why
His commandments are "too grievous" to keep -- and why we have to be OSAS.
Your assessment is people believe OSAS because they want to sin.

You have made that abundantly clear with all your rhetoric re: "license to sin."

If you are true to your word, you will denounce yourself as an anti-Christ, now.

Heh, something tells me you will not :giggle::geek:

On the other hand, you have given us permission to label you as such :D