Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,262
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113
You know that NOT BY WORKS is obvious.

Verses like:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

2 Timothy 1:18 (NIV)
18 May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus.


There are good works, and they count ZERO for Salvation.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,594
623
113
True faith produces good works by the power of the Holy Spirit. Eph 2:10 and Hebrews 11. It is works under our own power that does not work. II Peter 1, Gal 5 fruits of the Spirit. Matthew 25:11-46, Matthew 7:22
 

Justified

Active member
Jul 13, 2021
193
73
28
In the scriptures you have quoted, is he speaking of the "world" that he told us in another scripture to "love not the world".
When we look at these verses in the context of the whole bible this what becomes apparent.


Joh 3:16

The verse indicates God’s love is global, sacrificial, personal and eternal. Here is a single verse that shows us the mind of God, the heart of God and the will of God.

1Jn 2:2

The prima facie reading of this text seems unequivocal:

Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of believers, many of whom John is addressing (“for our sins”); and furthermore, Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of “the whole world,” meaning unbelievers to whom John is not directly writing to.

Succinctly put, the atoning sacrifice of Jesus has a universal scope.

1Jn 2:15

What is the will of God

Do Not Be Conformed to this Age

If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.


God loves all sinners, Christ Jesus came to save all sinners, not all sinners will come to Christ Jesus for salvation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,059
5,061
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True faith produces good works by the power of the Holy Spirit. Eph 2:10 and Hebrews 11. It is works under our own power that does not work. II Peter 1, Gal 5 fruits of the Spirit. Matthew 25:11-46, Matthew 7:22
Tkhis message of teaching is almost impossible to get across to most who come here. As soon as it is mentioned you are accused of Juidaizing, duhh. God bless you.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,571
2,033
113
North Carolina
Been away again for a while. This has been a very tough year. First my cancer, then other stuff and 2 weeks ago my nephew died from Covid. We have to go through challenges but sometimes whenever they come in bunches, it's very difficult.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,571
2,033
113
North Carolina
Jesus only died for the sheep (God's elects), not the goats (nonelects).
Remember no one deserves mercy (the gift of God).


1 Peter 3:18

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

1 John 2:2

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


John 11:25

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

There is no such thing as "limited atonement" as for the work of Jesus Christ unto the salvation of the "whole" creation. God does not want anyone to perish but His will is for all to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,382
17,666
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Been away again for a while. This has been a very tough year. First my cancer, then other stuff and 2 weeks ago my nephew died from Covid. We have to go through challenges but sometimes whenever they come in bunches, it's very difficult.
Welcome back sis, praying for you
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
True faith produces good works by the power of the Holy Spirit. Eph 2:10 and Hebrews 11. It is works under our own power that does not work. II Peter 1, Gal 5 fruits of the Spirit. Matthew 25:11-46, Matthew 7:22
Yes true faith will produce good works but we are not saved by them.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I love these verses

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

What makes me very sad is that it's not uncommon to just qote v28
It tends to be done on the basis that God will work things in us to make good the things we have suffered in life, bad things.

My simple example is the sexual abuse I suffered.
V28 was quoted to me.
Firstly God cannot make that good. No amount of sin suffered to done can be made good.

But God will work good in these things in order to conform us to the image of Jesus.
He brings healing helps us to forgive.
As Jesus forgives.
As we allow him to do so God will then use to help others.
Those are good works.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,928
3,348
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Been away again for a while. This has been a very tough year. First my cancer, then other stuff and 2 weeks ago my nephew died from Covid. We have to go through challenges but sometimes whenever they come in bunches, it's very difficult.
There needs to be a prayer emoji.
 
Jan 9, 2014
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Our works cannot save us,for our works is as filthy rags,and there is none that does good,no not one,and all are sinners and come short of the glory of God.

So no matter what we do we cannot ever do good enough to receive salvation.

In that position the only thing we can do to correct this position is to have faith,that is why we are saved by faith for that is all we can do,for our works cannot do it.

All we have to do is believe.

Paul said we are not saved by works,but by accepting Christ,which he was addressing Gentiles,and their false religions,that thought they could have favor with God by their religious ways,but Paul said you are not saved by those works but by confessing Christ.

Paul was speaking from a fleshy perspective,not saved by works,and James is speaking from a spiritual perspective,accepting Christ,and being led of the Spirit,justified by works and not faith alone.

If a person does confess Christ,they only have to love people for love is the fulfilling of the law,which is what James is saying,and that is why he said if you do not feed someone when you can,then how do you have faith,and any work they would do apart from that,loving people,like if they go by Old Testament physical ordinances,or do something that another religion would do has no bearing on their salvation,but a waste of time.

Paul,not saved by works,James,but led of the Spirit loving people to have faith active in our life.
Exactly what is a “work”? Rom 10. “10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
Isn’t confession something a person “does” with the voice? Isn’t that a “work”? If not, why differentiate between confession and “works”?
 
Jan 9, 2014
140
22
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It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Is “confession” a righteous work?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
83
Exactly what is a “work”? Rom 10. “10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
Isn’t confession something a person “does” with the voice? Isn’t that a “work”? If not, why differentiate between confession and “works”?
You're right. Confession is an action, a "work" if you will.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,154
1,004
113
You know that NOT BY WORKS is obvious.

Verses like:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

2 Timothy 1:18 (NIV)
18 May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus.


There are good works, and they count ZERO for Salvation.
Can faith save without works ?

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?


Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-21, 23-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith that doesn’t change us tangibly isn’t what the gospel is about there’s a reason Paul said this

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭

because if you put a group of believers together and no one is insisting “ good works have nothing to do with anything “ the one constantly affirming what Paul said there in that faithful saying , is going to change us from those insisting what we do isn’t important to those like this

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we reject the inclusion of our works and insist there’s nothing to see there well Never become those zealous of good works and that’s why he suffered and died to redeem us from sin and create someone better in deed and truth


When we say we’re saved by grace not by works the next line says we are created in Christ for good works


“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We want to cut the part out about us walking in good works ordained of the gospel but then we’re like empty vessels or a body without a spirit