Not By Works

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Aug 3, 2019
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Soooo.....keeping the 10 Commandments MORE BETTERER than most anyone else makes you a 1st class Christian? All Christians who do not diligent keep the 7th day Sabbath (unfailingly) are doomed to perdition?

Looks like the dirty rotten sinful thief on the cross goes to the back of the bus huh? Or squeaks into heaven by the skin of his teeth. The guy probably forsook the Sabbath for decades. Undoubtedly unsynagogued to boot.
Did you answer the question?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Yep, which is why people want a License to Sin aka "transgress the law": they don't have faith.
Yes, using the law to obtain salvation is "not of faith".

Obeying the law as "reasonable service" by the indwelling power of the Savior is simply the will of God, according to Psalms 40:8 KJV -- unlike that filthy OSAS License to Sin which is leading multitudes to a Christless grave every day.
OSAS is simply a doctrine of belief in eternal security when someone is saved. Basically you can't get saved then unsaved and then saved again etc. The purpose of this phrase Once Saved Always Saved is not to tell people to go out and sin like crazy because God's got you covered( And if that is one's attitude, their heart is in the wrong place.) The purpose of OSAS is to provide assurance to the children of God. When God saves a person, he gives the Holy Spirit to dwell within. Don't you think this Holy Spirit inside a child of God would compel the person to want to do what pleases God? However we also wrestle with a sinful nature with sinful desires. The desires of the new nature conflict with the old and so there is a struggle, still through the Holy Spirit one can grow and mature in Christ and temptations that once were there are not or lessen to a good degree. I think however as one grows in maturity, one also grows in humility as seeing the areas where one often falls short and fails.

I believe that eternal security is well supported in the Scriptures. I ask you to do this: search the Bible with an open mind on the possibility that eternal security could be true. Ask God to teach you.

Trust me, @Phoneman-777 , I have searched the Scriptures because I have known the evils of doubting my salvation. It is not something I would wish on anyone who believes and trusts in Christ. I can tell you time and time again how I would be comforted by the Scriptures.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,081
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unlike that filthy OSAS License to Sin which is leading multitudes to a Christless grave every day.
"OSAS" has nothing whatsoever to do with a "license to sin".

On the contrary, OSAS inevitably carries with it the concept of being an "overcomer"......a victorious
hypernikao.......a super conqueror.

1 John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our FAITH.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that BELIEVETH that Jesus is the Son of God.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
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To be honest, I think you are assuming too much by asking why he hates you. Discussions can get really heated and discord can arise. This doesn't mean it's hatred that is going on.
I've told him time and time again, if I "hated" the OSAS crowd, I'd keep my mouth shut, buy myself a truckload of microwave popcorn, and get a front row seat at the Lake of Fire and watch them burn.

Posthuman is an intelligent but emotional guy - I'm a sarcastic ass sometimes because Rush Limbaugh taught me the best way to demonstrate absurdity is by being absurd. Who am I to withhold forgiveness, as one to whom much forgiveness has been bestowed?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,081
5,241
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Did you answer the question?
I'll tell you what: more than simply answering the question I have obtained the victory. By the blood of the Lamb. By grace through faith.

More than that I have the eternal security of knowing to Whom I have entrusted that day (2 Tim 1:12), knowing that whom He predestinated, He will inevitably glorify (Rom 8:30).
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,416
595
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Australia
Soooo.....keeping the 10 Commandments MORE BETTERER than most anyone else makes you a 1st class Christian? All Christians who do not diligent keep the 7th day Sabbath (unfailingly) are doomed to perdition?

Looks like the dirty rotten sinful thief on the cross goes to the back of the bus huh? Or squeaks into heaven by the skin of his teeth. The guy probably forsook the Sabbath for decades. Undoubtedly unsynagogued to boot.
If we are saved by Christs righteousness we need not worry about being good enough or how good we are because Christ was perfect and we are perfect when covered by Christ.

We are freed from the law by the body of Christ.
But do we purposely ignore the commands of God, do we continue to sin because we are saved by grace through faith?

If you keep any law to be better or to compair yourself with others you have missed the point.
We are all sinners and our righteousness is as filthy rages. We need Christ.

Keeping the Sabbath is a delight for some and a burden for others. It comes down to the motive.
Why should we keep the Sabbath?
Because it was sanctified by God. Gen 2:3
Because it was made for man. Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Because God told us to remember it. Ex 20:8
Because you Love Jesus. John 14:15
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
506
113
OSAS is simply a doctrine of belief in eternal security when someone is saved. Basically you can't get saved then unsaved and then saved again etc. The purpose of this phrase Once Saved Always Saved is not to tell people to go out and sin like crazy because God's got you covered( And if that is one's attitude, their heart is in the wrong place.) The purpose of OSAS is to provide assurance to the children of God. When God saves a person, he gives the Holy Spirit to dwell within. Don't you think this Holy Spirit inside a child of God would compel the person to want to do what pleases God? However we also wrestle with a sinful nature with sinful desires. The desires of the new nature conflict with the old and so there is a struggle, still through the Holy Spirit one can grow and mature in Christ and temptations that once were there are not or lessen to a good degree. I think however as one grows in maturity, one also grows in humility as seeing the areas where one often falls short and fails.

I believe that eternal security is well supported in the Scriptures. I ask you to do this: search the Bible with an open mind on the possibility that eternal security could be true. Ask God to teach you.

Trust me, @Phoneman-777 , I have searched the Scriptures because I have known the evils of doubting my salvation. It is not something I would wish on anyone who believes and trusts in Christ. I can tell you time and time again how I would be comforted by the Scriptures.
I know the good intentions of the doctrine of OSAS, but it's too dangerous because in it lies opportunity for Satanic exploitation - to lead the adherents of it to presumption and away from what qualifies only as a relationship with Christ: total, perpetual surrender of our will to His will.

If a man can keep himself pure out of love and respect for a wife, why can't he keep himself pure before an invisible yet ever present Savior God?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,225
1,405
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I've told him time and time again, if I "hated" the OSAS crowd, I'd keep my mouth shut, buy myself a truckload of microwave popcorn, and get a front row seat at the Lake of Fire and watch them burn.

Posthuman is an intelligent but emotional guy - I'm a sarcastic ass sometimes because Rush Limbaugh taught me the best way to demonstrate absurdity is by being absurd. Who am I to withhold forgiveness, as one to whom much forgiveness has been bestowed?
I understand you hate the OSAS doctrine. I understand I might not be able to convince you otherwise. In discussions it helps to be kind. You know how it says a soft answer turns away wrath but grievous words stir up anger?( See Proverbs 15:1) I trust you that you don't hate the OSAS crowd as you say. I know someone who tends to be blunt and speak with sarcasm. It took me some time to learn that this person does care about me.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
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To be honest, I think you are assuming too much by asking why he hates you. Discussions can get really heated and discord can arise. This doesn't mean it's hatred that is going on.
i have 3 years of history behind that comment.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,081
5,241
113
I know the good intentions of the doctrine of OSAS, but it's too dangerous because in it lies opportunity for Satanic exploitation - to lead the adherents of it to presumption and away from what qualifies only as a relationship with Christ: total, perpetual surrender of our will to His will.

If a man can keep himself pure out of love and respect for a wife, why can't he keep himself pure before an invisible yet ever present Savior God?
OSAS is not the least bit "dangerous" to a born again Christian washed by the blood of the Lamb.

It is however a most comforting assurance to those who cry "Abba Father".
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,225
1,405
113
I know the good intentions of the doctrine of OSAS, but it's too dangerous because in it lies opportunity for Satanic exploitation - to lead the adherents of it to presumption and away from what qualifies only as a relationship with Christ: total, perpetual surrender of our will to His will.

If a man can keep himself pure out of love and respect for a wife, why can't he keep himself pure before an invisible yet ever present Savior God?
I think it really comes down to if one's heart has been changed by God. King David was a man after God's own heart, and yet he lusted after the wife of Uriah and had her husband killed in battle. Yet when Nathan the prophet came and pointed out David's wrong, David repented and was grieved over his sin.

One way I see it with OSAS is that God knows his people and God is all knowing. If God is all knowing, why in the world would he save someone then un save someone? God doesn't make mistakes.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
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To be honest, I think you are assuming too much by asking why he hates you. Discussions can get really heated and discord can arise. This doesn't mean it's hatred that is going on.
yes, i understand - but please understand also - i have 3 years of history behind that comment.
3 years of him pretending Galatians doesn't exist.
3 years of him pretending Romans consists of of only one verse.
3 years of him trying to fool people into thinking Matthew 24 is contextless.
3 years of him arguing salvation is by his own will, effort and works
3 years of Him proclaiming that Christ teaches doctrines of demons
3 years

i am not incredibly old, but 3 years of clear blasphemy is a long time from my perspective.
i do pray that Christ - to whom a thousand years is as a watch in the night - is more patient with him than i eventually became.
i am glad you are still willing to show him mercy in his willful ignorance; it is what i also ought do - because Jesus does the same towards me

you are teaching me, Cherie
mon ami
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
11,532
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OSAS is not the least bit "dangerous" to a born again Christian washed by the blood of the Lamb.

It is however a most comforting assurance to those who cry "Abba Father".
i've observed several times in this thread --- they ((the enemies of Christ)) -- they are afraid to allow salvation to be free, because they fear it will be stolen.

this denies the power of God: salvation is a supernatural work, of God, not of ourselves -- an effectual work.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,416
595
113
Australia
More than that I have the eternal security of knowing to Whom I have entrusted that day (2 Tim 1:12), knowing that whom He predestinated, He will inevitably glorify (Rom 8:30).
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Following the flesh = sin

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice that the no condemnation for those that walk after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The carnal flesh can't obey the law of God.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Notice the battle between the flesh and the Spirit of in us.
When we walk in the Spirit, the Spirit empowers us to obey the law of God.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,225
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i have 3 years of history behind that comment.
@Phoneman-777 said he doesn't hate the OSAS crowd. I think he is just blunt. I have experience thinking someone hated me when in reality this person does not. This person is very blunt and sarcastic at times. I learned this person tends to speak their mind without a filter.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,081
5,241
113
i've observed several times in this thread --- they ((the enemies of Christ)) -- they are afraid to allow salvation to be free, because they fear it will be stolen.

this denies the power of God: salvation is a supernatural work, of God, not of ourselves -- an effectual work.
Indeed, all you need to be is broke and thirsty......Isaiah 55:1-3.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
11,532
113
@Phoneman-777 said he doesn't hate the OSAS crowd. I think he is just blunt. I have experience thinking someone hated me when in reality this person does not. This person is very blunt and sarcastic at times. I learned this person tends to speak their mind without a filter.
this person you thought hated you -- did you spend 3 years of him ignoring everything you said, falsely accusing you and repeating the same arguments scripture 100 % contradicted?
did they follow you around to multiple forums repeating lies that were thoroughly refuted not only by you but by a dozen other saints who all agreed he blasphemed?


because that is the situation here.
this man is an SDA/JW crossover-Judaizer who believes anyone who doesn't go to church on saturday is damned & every soul is annihilated, even Christ's.
i have opposed his errors for 3 years. the same supposed argument ((tho the argument is actually long settled by the word of God for 2,000 years)) for 3 years.
is that the same as your situation?


i can understand a number of months of vanity.
but this man is irreconcilable. he doesn't care what anyone says; he blasphemes without remorse.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,225
1,405
113
this person you thought hated you -- did you spend 3 years of him ignoring everything you said, falsely accusing you and repeating the same arguments scripture 100 % contradicted?
did they follow you around to multiple forums repeating lies that were thoroughly refuted not only by you but by a dozen other saints who all agreed he blasphemed?


because that is the situation here.
this man is an SDA/JW crossover-Judaizer who believes anyone who doesn't go to church on saturday is damned & every soul is annihilated, even Christ's.
i have opposed his errors for 3 years. the same supposed argument ((tho the argument is actually long settled by the word of God for 2,000 years)) for 3 years.
is that the same as your situation?
Not the same scenario, however I have known this person since high school. At least since 2007.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,594
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Indeed, all you need to be is broke and thirsty......Isaiah 55:1-3.
amen

this is the man who is justified -- but the man who **thinks** he keeps the law while in reality he is guilty of all of it - yet boasts -- that man is neither justified nor forgiven, because he accuses others while excusing his own open sin.