Not By Works

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Aug 3, 2019
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I understand you hate the OSAS doctrine. I understand I might not be able to convince you otherwise. In discussions it helps to be kind. You know how it says a soft answer turns away wrath but grievous words stir up anger?( See Proverbs 15:1) I trust you that you don't hate the OSAS crowd as you say. I know someone who tends to be blunt and speak with sarcasm. It took me some time to learn that this person does care about me.
My philosophy is it does no good to whisper to a freeway sleepwalker, but to do whatever it takes to wake him up.

In the medical world, ER physicians have switched tactics when it comes to defibrillators. In the past, they would start out with low voltage and with each unsuccessful attempt, they'd crank up the power more and more little by little.

Today, research as found that with each unsuccessful attempt to jumpstart the heart, the heart responds by becoming increasingly resistant to each successive attempt to jumpstart -- or in proper medical terminology -- "CONVERT" the heart. In other words, when the goal is cardiac conversion of the heart, doctors are now told to start out hitting them with everything they've got, lest it becomes resistant to the point of no return. I think there's a lesson here when it comes to evangelism.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Not the same scenario, however I have known this person since high school. At least since 2007.
thank you

i get what you're saying, and it's correct. i have friends from as far as 1993 who ((IMO)) are full of heresy -- yet i forgive them before this tele-person
what i ought to do is continue in patience and grace

it is hard while he continues in petty, baseless personal attacks against me and clearly unsupportable Judaizing preachings for years, despite all contradiction

thank you
all i want is peace -- God's peace; the true rest
 
Aug 3, 2019
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I'm waiting for you to answer both of my questions asked in #152,572.
Mine was asked in 152,567. Pretty sure that means I asked you first, but if you're unwilling to answer, forget it. We can agree to disagree. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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OSAS is not the least bit "dangerous" to a born again Christian washed by the blood of the Lamb.

It is however a most comforting assurance to those who cry "Abba Father".
A OSAS License to Sin in the hands of one who believes he's a slave to sinful habits is like a Learner's Permit in the hands of a high school junior in his parent's car on Friday night with a case of beer on the backseat and an indecently dressed flirt in the front.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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@Phoneman-777 said he doesn't hate the OSAS crowd. I think he is just blunt. I have experience thinking someone hated me when in reality this person does not. This person is very blunt and sarcastic at times. I learned this person tends to speak their mind without a filter.
Darlin, God help us all if I ever take off my filter, because I know how to make my points in ways that would make the paint peel off the walls LOL
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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A OSAS License to Sin in the hands of one who believes he's a slave to sinful habits is like a Learner's Permit in the hands of a high school junior in his parent's car on Friday night with a case of beer on the backseat and an indecently dressed flirt in the front.
Doesn't sound like a born-again believer to me.......:unsure:. Born-again believers are no longer slaves to sin. Plus born-again believers love God and love their neighbor.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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My philosophy is it does no good to whisper to a freeway sleepwalker, but to do whatever it takes to wake him up.

In the medical world, ER physicians have switched tactics when it comes to defibrillators. In the past, they would start out with low voltage and with each unsuccessful attempt, they'd crank up the power more and more little by little.

Today, research as found that with each unsuccessful attempt to jumpstart the heart, the heart responds by becoming increasingly resistant to each successive attempt to jumpstart -- or in proper medical terminology -- "CONVERT" the heart. In other words, when the goal is cardiac conversion of the heart, doctors are now told to start out hitting them with everything they've got, lest it becomes resistant to the point of no return. I think there's a lesson here when it comes to evangelism.
Interesting though oftentimes trying to change someone's perspective doesn't work. Not saying that cannot happen but you got to keep in mind how beliefs can be forged in stone from years. I don't agree with your perspective on OSAS. I believe you are wrong in thinking salvation can be lost. I still invite you to take a open mind approach to what Scripture says on the eternal security. Look into the passages that you believe show salvation can be lost and see and seek to understand how OSAS believer's look at the same passages. You might not change your viewpoint on OSAS; however, you may come to understand the argument from the eternal security side more.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Indeed, all you need to be is broke and thirsty......Isaiah 55:1-3.
Did anyone ever accuse Christ of trying to earn the Father's love by His perfect obedience?

If he were alive and preaching today, you could safely bet your last dollar that the OSAS crowd would be accusing Him as having fallen from grace.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Darlin, God help us all if I ever take off my filter, because I know how to make my points in ways that would make the paint peel off the walls LOL
I don't always have a filter either. Please don't call me darlin. Just Cherie is fine.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Did anyone ever accuse Christ of trying to earn the Father's love by His perfect obedience?

If he were alive and preaching today, you could safely bet your last dollar that the OSAS crowd would be accusing Him as having fallen from grace.
Jesus HAD his Father's love. You don't need to earn what you already have.

Come to think of it....are you trying to earn what you don't already have?
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Doesn't sound like a born-again believer to me.......:unsure:.
Born-again believers love God and love their neighbor.
A man was trying to get home in a blinding snowstorm and reached a small frozen lake which lay between him and his house. Believing he would freeze to death before making it around, his only recourse was to try and get across. He slowly laid down and stretched himself out as far as he could and began slowly crawling along.

Halfway across, he suddenly heard the sound of rumbling and crashing of the ice. He cried out, "That's it! The ice is breaking up! I'm gonna be lost!!!" The sound grew louder and louder and just when he was sure it was the end, he was shocked to see several men on horseback come rushing across the ice nearly on top of him as he lay cowering in fear.

When it comes to winning the fight against temptation, we Conditional Salvationists are galloping along to victory while you in the OSAS crowd are slowly crawling along terrified, waiting to be overcome. Get up from that pathetic spot and get into the fight, for victory is guaranteed to those of us who know we lack the skill, but not the will.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Interesting though oftentimes trying to change someone's perspective doesn't work. Not saying that cannot happen but you got to keep in mind how beliefs can be forged in stone from years. I don't agree with your perspective on OSAS. I believe you are wrong in thinking salvation can be lost. I still invite you to take a open mind approach to what Scripture says on the eternal security. Look into the passages that you believe show salvation can be lost and see and seek to understand how OSAS believer's look at the same passages. You might not change your viewpoint on OSAS; however, you may come to understand the argument from the eternal security side more.
Do I believe I have eternal security? Of course I do, because Jesus will never let go of me.

Do I believe I can let go of Jesus and go back to enjoying "the pleasures of sin for a season" and be lost? Of course I do, but I choose not to. We don't check our free will at the door of the church any more than does a groom or bride check their free will at the altar - without it, love has no value.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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I don't always have a filter either. Please don't call me darlin. Just Cherie is fine.
er, sorry about that. Where I'm from, we call everyone darlin, sweetie, baby doll, etc. We don't say it flirtatiously - it's a Southern Gentleman thing.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Jesus HAD his Father's love. You don't need to earn what you already have.

Come to think of it....are you trying to earn what you don't already have?
My point is if Jesus were alive today and keeping the law perfectly as He did, the OSAS crowd would accuse Him of heresy, of having fallen from grace, and of trying to earn the love of the Father.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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"Sin" is defined as "transgression of the law" - 1 John 3:4 KJV

Now, if the 7th commandment didn't exist until Moses, why did Joseph say "how can I commit this great wickedness and SIN against God" if the 7th commandment didn't exist until hundreds of years later?

If we're honest, we'll admit the Ten Commandments go all the say back to the beginning, which would not be a problem if not for that one commandment - the ONLY one that begins with "remember" - that everyone for some reason wants to forget, right?
Sin CAN be defined as "transgression of the law".

It can also be defined as "whatever is not of faith".

But sin is also transgression against the Laws, statutes, commandments and judgements of God.


If we're REALLY honest, the 10 commandments started under Moses. God has His Laws, statutes, commandments and judgements that have been from the beginning.

Sin existed before the 10 commandments were given. Which means sin always has been and always will be transgression against the Laws, statutes, commandments and judgements of God.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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Did anyone ever accuse Christ of trying to earn the Father's love by His perfect obedience?

If he were alive and preaching today, you could safely bet your last dollar that the OSAS crowd would be accusing Him as having fallen from grace.
You have that twisted. The broken people who knew they were in need of a Savior wept at Jesus’ feet and solemnly rejoiced in His saving grace. Pharisees and workers of the law on the other hand rejected His divinity and condemned Him as they focused on their own self-righteous works that equated to filthy rags.

It’s the same today and you show yourself to be the latter. You are in extreme danger of having a millstone around your neck and yet you mock the warnings. Blind guide.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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A OSAS License to Sin in the hands of one who believes he's a slave to sinful habits is like a Learner's Permit in the hands of a high school junior in his parent's car on Friday night with a case of beer on the backseat and an indecently dressed flirt in the front.
Yes. You are starting to understand.

But now, instead of the devil whispering into this drivers ear we have the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit guiding the young man.

He still only has his learners permit. He still has those temptations in the car with him. But now he has Brand New impressions and impulses straight from the Lord Jesus.

He's still going to grab a beer or two every now and then. He's still going to lust for that "flirt" from time to time. But something MAJOR has changed in his life that causes him to not continue down that path, but repent.

Its nothing in himself, he recognizes. If it were up to him he would just do what the flesh desires. But the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit want this person to be Righteous and Blessed before God.



Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Do I believe I have eternal security? Of course I do, because Jesus will never let go of me.

Do I believe I can let go of Jesus and go back to enjoying "the pleasures of sin for a season" and be lost? Of course I do, but I choose not to. We don't check our free will at the door of the church any more than does a groom or bride check their free will at the altar - without it, love has no value.
Your statements contradict each other. I guess you think you are stronger than Jesus, to
force Him to let go even though He says -and you affirm- that He will never let you go.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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If we're REALLY honest, the 10 commandments started under Moses. God has His Laws, statutes, commandments and judgements that have been from the beginning.

Sin existed before the 10 commandments were given. Which means sin always has been and always will be transgression against the Laws, statutes, commandments and judgements of God.
If "thou shalt not commit adultery" didn't exist until Sinai, why did Joseph call it "great sin against God"?