Oh goody another OSAS thread!

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Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
I just love how they push james 2 down our throats saying it refutes OSAS, yet they will say isreal who hearers of god, but not doers (proven over and over) yet they somehow had saving faith. And not dead faith.

Talk about contradiction
Well, James is talking about the fruits that are a result of our salvation. It's our works that show man that we are a new creation. Several scriptures tell us that our works are not for God, but for man, so they can see God in us. I mean, God already knows we are His, so why would He need to see our works? LOL! SMH! If we don't do anything for our brother when they are desperate and in need, and we can help them, but don't, then of course our faith is dead to them, because we are saying we're a Christian, but not showing it by helping them. FACT CHECK: Because of our SALVATION, we now produce good works. YAY US and thank you Jesus for working in me to do those good works, because if it were left up to me, and just me? I wouldn't do anything for anyone. And I bet most wouldn't either. I have had a heart transplant and I WANT to do good works because I WANT others to see God in me so that they can also know there is a God. But, I also know that those works don't save me. YAY YESHUA!

HOLY IS THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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IMO you think the new birth saves you. I don't see how that's different than the gnostics believing their spiritual nature saved them.

I've been ignoring your question about being sealed because it's so dumb and not relevant. GOD can unseal what he seals.
I have a night, and weekend full of Graduation parties to attend, but I do not want this very vital post here to not get the attention it deserves.

Posters like this man, and many others have beat the drum for YRS, and perhaps affected the thinking of baby Christians, that GOD will never leave a person, BUT a person can leave God, and no longer believe, and be saved, AFTER being born again.

They have to beat this drum because to say GOD will take away Salvation not only makes Him a liar, but definitively means that a person MUST work to maintain their salvation, or that God will take their faith away, thereby making Jesus' sacrifice null and void.

THAT is why this sealing BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SO IMPORTANT OF A QUESTION! However THIS poster has let the mask slip by declaring that GOD is the one that will UNSEAL, UNSAVE, UNBORN one of His children.

Not only that, but although ADDRESSING the question, he didn't answer what the sealing of the Holy Spirit meant to him beyond calling it a dumb question and saying GOD would take away a person's salvation.

My post is not intended as a "gotcha". It is for him, the others that believe as he does, and the baby Christian to understand that although God your Father will correct you, and that although there are always consequences for sin, ONE OF THEM IS NOT THAT HE WILL TAKE HIS SALVATION THAT HE GAVE YOU WHEN YOU ACCEPTED HIS SON WHO PAID THE PRICE FOR YOUR SIN AND MADE YOU A NEW CREATION. HIS CHILD!! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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So they worshipped a God they did not believe in. That is stupid.
They actually worshiped false gods. Starting with the Golden Calf.

ACTS 7
41
And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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They actually worshiped false gods. Starting with the Golden Calf.

ACTS 7
41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Aaron was making the Golden Calf while Moses was receiving the Ten Commandments that we follow today.

Those involved in the making of the Golden Calf were killed.

You have proved that people can and do backslide.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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IMO you think the new birth saves you. I don't see how that's different than the gnostics believing their spiritual nature saved them.
Since the New Birth is absolutely essential to enter and to see the Kingdom of God, it is a part of salvation. Indeed, the most vital part of salvation.

So to equate that with Gnostic beliefs is either (a) ignorant, or (b) disingenuous, or (c) heretical.

JOHN 3
3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Those involved in the making of the Golden Calf were killed.
Please read and study the entire portion of Scripture quoted, as well as the entire chapter before you respond again.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Please read and study the entire portion of Scripture quoted, as well as the entire chapter before you respond again.
I know all about their idol worship.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Since the New Birth is absolutely essential to enter and to see the Kingdom of God, it is a part of salvation. Indeed, the most vital part of salvation.

So to equate that with Gnostic beliefs is either (a) ignorant, or (b) disingenuous, or (c) heretical.
Yes, the new birth is essential. However, the ones that I am talking about are those who believe a person who has been born from above, but doesn't follow on to know the lord and do his will, will be saved simply because he is born again. That IMO is the new gnosticism.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Yes, the new birth is essential. However, the ones that I am talking about are those who believe a person who has been born from above, but doesn't follow on to know the lord and do his will, will be saved simply because he is born again. That IMO is the new gnosticism.
Well then quiet obviously this person is self-deceived and was never born-again to begin with. God and Christ expect a transformed life after the New Birth.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Cor 5:17)
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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I've truly enjoyed this discussion with you all today. I love being able to discuss the deeper things of God. And I have greater clarity myself on the importance of being lead by Holy Spirit and seeing that thread through all of the OT.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
I've truly enjoyed this discussion with you all today. I love being able to discuss the deeper things of God. And I have greater clarity myself on the importance of being lead by Holy Spirit and seeing that thread through all of the OT.
Amen, we have an awesome God, and it's amazing how one can fellowship with others from all across the world. Praise God for this. I hope you have been truly edified; I know I have. God's Word will always remain true, even if some don't believe it. Just as God is there, on the throne, even if some 'claim' they don't believe that either. Praise Jehovah!

P.S. Enjoyed conversing with you... and here's a cookie... sorry there's a bite out of it. I couldn't help it LOL
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
That's all that I'm saying. Those who believe enter. They believed enough to get saved out of Egypt, but stopped believing during trials.
And I had to reply to this again as I read over past posts.

Believed enough to get saved out of Egypt? Sure, if I were a slave and I had freedom offered, I"d be going with whomever gave me that freedom. You darn right I would. I"d be like ... "Hey man, I'm coming with you dude." I'd follow the man right out of Egypt. WOO HOO I'm FREEEEEEEEE! "Just let me pack me bags Moses... Just let me grab my golden calf and my statue of ba'al... and I"ll be right there. I"m with you man." YIPPEEEEEEEE

But I"d be following the man, not their God. And this is what was done. Many followed MOSES and not His God. If I were there and was just as stiff necked, you could be sure I"d take the freedom over slavery any day.

Oh wait! That's what I've already done isn't it? I've taken freedom over slavery to sin. YAY ME and THANK YOU JESUS!
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Well then quiet obviously this person is self-deceived and was never born-again to begin with. God and Christ expect a transformed life after the New Birth.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Cor 5:17)
There is controversy over that point. How can any person know that another person has been born from above? Scripture indicates that it is when a person acknowledges Christ is lord and believes in his hear that GOD raised him from the dead. From that point on he is in covenant relationship with GOD, regardless of his depth of faith or commitment.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Yes, the new birth is essential. However, the ones that I am talking about are those who believe a person who has been born from above, but doesn't follow on to know the lord and do his will, will be saved simply because he is born again. That IMO is the new gnosticism.
I believe this comes from an incomplete understanding of what the gospel truly is. Many are taught to "get people saved", but Scripture teaches they are to confess Him as Lord and thus shall be saved. I do believe there ARE saved people who do not follow the Lord completely, we are all in process of discovering His kindness in our life. Scripture is rife with examples of people who were saved, but needed correction. I believe we can sin, but God removes the enjoyment of it. And usually believers sin because they don't quite understand the truth that sets them free. So we need discipleship, honoring one another, encouraging one another, and the Spirit of God to convict us of our righteousness in Him.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I believe this comes from an incomplete understanding of what the gospel truly is. Many are taught to "get people saved", but Scripture teaches they are to confess Him as Lord and thus shall be saved.
And then IMO people like John MacArthur abuse that truth to put people under horrible condemnation and bondage, and then victims from that nightmare over-react and go off the deep end into errant grace doctrines in which lordship is anathema. Hopefully, it will balance out for them some day and they realize that lordship and grace walk hand in hand.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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And then IMO people like John MacArthur abuse that truth to put people under horrible condemnation and bondage, and then victims from that nightmare over-react and go off the deep end into errant grace doctrines in which lordship is anathema. Hopefully, it will balance out for them some day and they realize that lordship and grace walk hand in hand.
I believe grace correctly understood empowers holiness & following the Lord. Like you said they are not mutually exclusive.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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...How can any person know that another person has been born from above?
The New Birth is between the sinner and God, Christ, and the holy angels (who rejoice each time a sinner is saved). Christians have not been given the task of sitting in judgment over the salvation of others.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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Lord,

May the words that I type in public view always be for your glory, and always written with love and truth, and by the leading of the Holy Spirit that you have placed inside my flesh; thus making me the temple that you dwell in.

May those that read the words be blessed and edified, as well as those that disagree with them, be enlightened as well. May they also remember that it is better to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, rather than to obey our flesh, and say something that is not edifying. Help me to never call names, but to speak with goodness, kindness, and show mercy, long-suffering, and patience to those that may not see eye to eye with me; as well as them with me.

Keep me in remembrance of your Word of Lord God Almighty in Heaven; King of Kings and Lord of Lord of my life, so that I can be that light and salt that you have called me to be.

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1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
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Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Jas 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
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Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
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Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
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Pro 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
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Ecc 7:9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.
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Pro 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
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Pro 15:18 A wrathful man stirreth up strife: but he that is slow to anger appeaseth strife.
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Pro 16:32 He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.
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Pro 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
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Help me to always think before I type, as to not intentionally offend anyone, but walk in your light O Lord.

Allow me to crucify my flesh and truly present myself as a living sacrifice to you, and may others do the same. As we may not agree with everyone, but we should strive to always have peace with everyone. We are all God's creation, and His will is that ALL should be saved. Getting angry and saying things that we cannot take back can pull some away from the Love of Christ, and God forbid that we cause anyone to stumble. Humble us. Mold us. Shape us. Tame us, and work in us so that others might know that you are the only true God, and come to the saving knowledge themselves; through our example to others.

in Yeshua HaMashioch's name, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, I pray, and give all, glory, honor, and praise.

AMEN
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
I believe this comes from an incomplete understanding of what the gospel truly is. Many are taught to "get people saved", but Scripture teaches they are to confess Him as Lord and thus shall be saved. I do believe there ARE saved people who do not follow the Lord completely, we are all in process of discovering His kindness in our life. Scripture is rife with examples of people who were saved, but needed correction. I believe we can sin, but God removes the enjoyment of it. And usually believers sin because they don't quite understand the truth that sets them free. So we need discipleship, honoring one another, encouraging one another, and the Spirit of God to convict us of our righteousness in Him.
Amen! The Spirit of God is within us, and it will ALWAYS lead to correction and discipline. IF you don't have any, then you might think twice about your relationship with our Father in Heaven. You cannot be saved and live like the devil. The Spirit doesn't allow for this, as He is now indwelling in us. EVERYONE that received Christ in the Word of God.... CHANGED! Change is the characteristic of a child of God. Without change, there probably wasn't true repentance.

With this said though, some changes might take awhile. We don't just become perfect and stop everything immediately. Although this can happen to some, the majority it does not. Change takes time, but the fact is that you do change. I was an alcoholic for 20 years and I LOVED drinking. I couldn't wait to get home to drink myself into oblivion once again, by drinking half gallons of whiskey a night. Yeah, it's possible, and I did it. My liver should be so shriveled, I would be dead, but God is merciful. I did not stop immediately after my salvation with my Lord, but my heart did. I did NOT WANT to drink anymore and continually prayed to have it taken from me. But my flesh was weak, and I ran back to it every night still. But my heart, each morning, would repent and cry. I wept! I did not want it anymore. I knew something was different in me, because I didn't want to drink anymore, whereas, before, I loved it.

God did deliver me from drinking... Cold turkey... No 10 step program, no outside influence, other than God, and no help; no withdrawals. One day I woke up and never drank again, and that's been 15 years ago. God is so good to me and I love Him so much, and thank Him DAILY for what He has done for me. Only a powerful, mighty, loving God could have delivered me, and He did.

So yeah, there will be change as a child of God. But we need to always consider that we don't know what people are doing behind closed doors. They may not look like a Christian, as I"m sure David didn't act like one much when he did what he did with Uriah and Bathsheba. I'm sure if we'd a been there watching, we'd a said he can't be saved :p So we don't know what they do when they go home. They might be on their knees before God praying for deliverance and praising His name for it. I for one never question someone's salvation, as it's not my job. My job is to share the Gospel and be the light of the world. God judges those without the body of Christ. Ultimately, they are already judged by God. They don't need some high and mighty holier than though holy roller telling them how bad they are and they're going to hell in a hand basket. They need JESUS. Once they get Him, trust me... HE will do the rest. Praise God.

And u're right discipleship is lacking HORRIBLY in our world today. It's a shame :( God bless you!