Once Saved - Always Saved - Only saved a "works" based gospel?

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

Another way we can rest secure in the arms of the Lord is just to simply not sin. Have I sinned since I became a Christian. Yes I have but beacuse I am saved the Lord conviced me and showed me how wrong it was and I repented. I did not continue living in it. That would be an example of an apostacy.

Thaddaeus · Jan 21, 2010

joint-heir said:

1jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

in order for you to make it to heaven you have to say that you have no sin, according to scripture if you say, you have no sin then you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you, so according to your gospel of salvation we have to lie and decieve ourselves, but wasn't lying, yep there it is " GREED-STRIFE-ENVY-LUST-HYPOCRASY-JUDGEMENT OF OTHERS-LYING-CHEATING-GOSSIP"

right there in that list you gave us that will keep us out of heaven. so to make it to heaven I have to say that I have no sin, if I say I have no sin , then I lie which is a sin, and sin keeps me out of heaven. this is spinning Circle I believe I will stay with the straight and narrow and trust Jesus to:

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,Jude 1:25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen.
I hope one day that you too will be able to trust in the Lord

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

You made a good point thadeous but there is a difference between the term comitt sin and committeth sin. The Bible say that a person who committeth sin is of the devil "committeth" mean continusous committ means once. There is a difference between slipping a little and completely turning our back on God. The Bible says if we deny God, He will deny us.

Thaddaeus · Jan 21, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

you know In my referrence to what the Bible says, I show the scriptures so that you can see I have not taken them out of contents , so could you show me the scripture that you are referring to Please?

and as I have said before God will bring us home before He will let us completely turn our backs on Him

1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
could you also please explain what this verse means if God is not able to keep us from falling from His grace??

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

joint-heir · Jan 21, 2010

BY THADDEUS

EVERY DAY is a constant struggle
I by the POWER of GOD have overcome addictions to drugs and alcohol
BUT
even as I am today an Associate Pastor I still have weaknesses that I must keep under control
EXAMPLE
A beautiful woman walks past me and she looks at me and she smiles and she says hello
I reply hello and as she passes by I turn to look at her for after all she IS BEAUTIFUL
NOW
the immediate thought crosses my mind OF MANY SCENARIOS
IS THIS WRONG OR SIN?
ABSOLUTELY NOT

let's line this up with scripture after all it is the word that we judge us one day

Mt 5:28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I believe this makes you wrong when you said it was not wrong to look , if any of those thoughts you had were evil
FROM JOINT-HEIR
THE INITIAL THOUGHT IS NOT WRONG IT IS WHAT YOU DO WITH THE THOUGHT
THE THOUGHT IS TEMPTATION
IT IS WHETHER YOU SUCCOMB TO TEMPTATION THAT MAKES IT A SIN
FOR THE THOUGHT OF TEMPTATION
IS NOT YOUR THOUGHT
BUT OF THE TEMPTOR
YOU MUST DECIDE TO WHO TO FOLLOW AT THAT POINT

STRIKE ONE THADDEUS

Quote:
what would be wrong is if I had specificed a singular thought and expanded upon that thought in a nature that was UNGODLY
NOW.......THIS IS THE SIN
BUT for this example to take place and make sense
LET's say I did expand on a thought and it became LUSTFUL
I JUST COMMITTED A SIN
IN FACT
BROKE AN COMMANDMENT SPECIFIED BY JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF
NOW.......AM I STILL UNDER GRACE WITHOUT SIN?
NO
1jo 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Woops that is two strikes for joint-heir
FROM JOINT-HEIR
YES IF WE DO SIN WE DO HAVE AN ADVOCATE BUT IF YOUR PREACHING WE CAN LIVE AS WE CHOOSE KNOWING THAT WE ARE SINNING MAKES NO DIFFERENCE BECAUSE WE ARE UNDER GRACE THEN WHOMEVER YOU ARE PREACHING TO I HOPE FOR THEIR SAKES THEY ARE NOT FOLLWING YOUR LOAD OF CRAP NOW YOUR SOUNDING LIKE JIM JONES.
ARE YOU SURE YOU DONT HAVE A CUP OF COOLAIDE TO PASS AROUND WHILE GIVING EVERYONE THE RIGHT TO SIN BECAUSE YOU THINK ANYTHING GOES BECAUSE JESUS DIED FOR US ONCE???
IM SORRY
BUT, EVEN JESUS SAID IN ...JOHN 5:14... BEHOLD THOU ART MADE WHOLE (SAVED WITHOUT SIN) : SIN NO MORE, LEST A WORSE THING( THIS IS NOT YOU ARE UNDER GRACE SO NO WORRIES ) COME UNTO THEE..........NOTICE JESUS DID NOT SAY BUT AFTER I DIE THEN YOU CAN DO AS YOU PLEASE..........

STRIKE 2 THADDEUS
Quote:
I JUST WILLINGLY SINNED AND BROKE A COMMANDMENT OF GOD ALMIGHTY
WHICH MEANS
I NEED TO HONESTLY AND SINCERELY GO TO GOD AND REPENT OF THIS SIN

THIS ONE EXAMPLE ALONE
explains the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED theory
TO BE FALSE

repent does not mean to ask forgiveness, it means to turn from or change ones mind, so if you keep doing the same sin then you never repented from that sin to start with, and I believe that makes three wrong strikes on why heir thinks once saved always saved is wrong.
FROM JOINT-HEIR
NOTICE I SAID TO WILLINGLY SIN
IF YOU WILLINGLY DO ANYTHING TO REVERSE IT IS TO REPENT WHICH IS TO TURN FROM THAT

STRIKE 3 THADDEUS

Quote:
AND
this does not include
GREED-STRIFE-ENVY-LUST-HYPOCRASY-JUDGEMENT OF OTHERS-LYING-CHEATING-GOSSIP
and many other sins
I AM sure is possible that many CHRISTIANS
have daily issues with
THAT IF COMMITTED
IS A SIN UNTO GOD
AND NEEDS TO BE REPENTED OF

FOR THE WORK JESUS ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS
IS ONLY GOOD FOR THE LAST SINS YOU CONFESSED AND REPENTED TO GOD FOR SALVATION
IF
YOU GO OUT AND COMMIT A NEW SIN WILLINGLY OF FREE WILL
THEN THAT PARTICULAR SIN AFTER THIS
HAS NOT YET BEEN FORGIVEN
THUS
IT IS REQUIRED TO BE ASKED FOR BY GOD IN FOGIVENESS TO BE EXONERATED
THEN
THAT SIN WILL BE FORGIVENED

FROM JOINT-HEIR
YES THIS I VERY TRUE

SO THAT MAKES 3 STRIKES TO YOU THADDEUS
THAT MEANS
YOU ARE OUT
GOODBYE
AND TAKE YOUR FALSE RELIGION TO THOSE WHO DONT KNOW YOU ARE LYING

charisenexcelcis · Jan 21, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

The difference between commit and comitteth is the person.
I commit
Thou committeth or committest
He committeth
we commit
you commit
they commit.
I am not contradicting what you are saying, merely pointing out that you can't use this linguistic argument.

mcubed · Jan 21, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

Sadly, there are some sins for me that I have repeated over and over, yet as I grow some of those sins “that so easily beset me” by His grace and mercy I have set aside others my Eternal Savior is still putting me through the Refiners Fire. Praise be unto Him, through it all I have never doubted my Salvation because of the Cross… Yeshua and Him alone!

"believers are kept"

Jude 1:1: Jude, a servant of Messiah Yeshua, and brother of James, to the ones called in God the Father, having been set apart, and having been kept [by, or for, or in] Messiah Yeshua: Also, 1 Peter 1:5: believers are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The words translated kept are different, but one common meaning is guarded. God guards, secures, keeps the believer saved in Messiah - not temporarily - but unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, that is, until he is home with the Lord in Heaven.

"by the power of God"

The general meaning of the term is self-evident, but two things must be noted:
1. It is used in the sense of being over against human effort. It is God who keeps the believer secure, not the believer himself; and
2. The power of God toward the believer is exceedingly great and mighty. Paul speaks of God's power specifically in regard to our future hope:Ephesians 1:18-19. 18. [I pray...] that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19. And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power....
It is the great and mighty power of God that keeps our salvation secure, not feeble and faltering human effort. Can there be any insecurity when guarded by almighty God?

"through the new birth"

The new birth produces the new creation in Messiah Yeshua (2 Corinthians 5:17). A naturally born baby is born of corruptible seed, and will die because of the transmittal of the sin nature through that seed; but one regenerated in Messiah is born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever (1 Peter 1:23). He will never die spiritually because he is born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible.

"and the indwelling"

According to Galatians 4:6, the Holy Spirit indwells every believer from the moment of salvation: And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. According to John 14:16, the Spirit abides in the believer forever: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever....
If the Spirit abides in the believer from the moment of salvation until the end of eternity, then there is not a moment of time in which he is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Can a believer indwelt by the Spirit - and the Spirit within him - be cast into Hell? Will God cast Himself into Hell?

"and sealing of the Holy Spirit."

2 Corinthians 1:22 says,And He [God] has sealed us and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Also, Ephesians 4:30: And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed until the day of redemption. And Ephesians 1:13-14: 13. in whom [Messiah] also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,14. who is the earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
The Holy Spirit seals the believer in Messiah until the day of redemption, which is the resurrection or translation of the body at the rapture. The Spirit sees to it that the believer will never fall out, break out, or be kidnapped from being in Messiah. The Spirit is also the earnest, the down payment, that God has placed on us until He takes us home, body and soul, to be with Him on that day.

Paul assured, He who began a good work in you will perform it until the day of Messiah Yeshua (Philippians 1:6). The word translated perform means to carry forward to completion. Also, 1 Corinthians 1:8: He [God] shall also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Messiah Yeshua. These declarations are ironclad.A clearer, more straightforward, more absolute assertion of God's intent to complete what He began in the believer until they're home with Him can hardly be imagined.
Yeshua's Definitive Statements Concerning Those Who Believe in Him
Here are but three:John 3:14-16. 14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24: Truly, truly, I say to you, He who hears My Word and believes on Him who sent Me has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:27-29. 27. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28. And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. 29. My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

In none of the above declarations is eternal life presented as probationary. Quite the contrary: They should not perish, but have everlasting life.... They shall not come into condemnation.... they shall never ever perish.... not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.... no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
If we can believe Yeshua, then we can believe what He stated emphatically in different ways, that the believer will never ever perish.

Yeshua Is Our Intercessor and Advocate Before God the Father
1 John 2:1: My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Messiah Yeshua the righteous. Also, Hebrews 7:25: Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
The very purpose that Yeshua intercedes for us is that we may be saved to the uttermost. The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible renders to the uttermost as to the end completely. That ought to be "uttermost" enough for anyone. For Messiah has not entered into the Holy of Holies made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us (Hebrews 9:24).
The Assurances of Romans 8
The broad sweep of Romans 1-7 is that all are guilty of sin, and that eternal forgiveness may had through Messiah (3:23; 6:23). Paul concludes Romans 7 by saying, 24. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25a. I thank God through Messiah Yeshua our Lord!
Romans 8 continues in the train of that worshipful exclamation, extolling the assurance of the salvation that is in Messiah. Here are some of the highlights:
1. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah Yeshua.... 2. for the Law of the Spirit of life in Messiah Yeshua has made me free from the law of sin and death. The believer will not be eternally condemned even though he still sins, for he has been set free from the law of God that demands eternal death because of sin,For He [the Father] has made Him [Yeshua] who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him [Yeshua] (2 Corinthians 5:21).
15. For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father! We need no longer fear eternal judgment. We have been adopted into the family of God.
29. For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. God has predestined the elect to be conformed to the image of His Son. Can the predestination of God be undone even by the elect themselves? Not a chance in eternity! That is why Paul said so emphatically,
38. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39. nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.
Nothing and no one in all of eternity - not even the believer himself - will be able to separate him from the love of God which is in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.

HumbleSaint · Jan 21, 2010

Thaddaeus said:

If we suffer we shall reign with Him, if we deny Him, He also will deny us. 2 Timothy 2:12

As far as 1 corinthians 5 that you are talking about. Paul said in a couple of verses before that that he is absent in body but present in spirit. I believe he was saying that he is not walking according to the demands of his body since he is dead to the flesh but that he is walking in the Spirit.

When I first came to the Lord several months ago, I almost kept going to a church that believes in OSAS but I just didn't have a peace about it. And I kept on researching Scripture. I would get a little irritated because they say if you don't belive like them you are believing a works salvation, but on the other side they say you are giving a liscense for sin.

The way I look at it is I Believed in OSAS for a day or so so in that sense according to you at that moment I became eternaly secure. So now I'm going to play safe and believe what I think the Bible realy says. He that shall endure to the end the same shall be saved. Were saved at the moment we beleve in Jesus But if we endure to the end we will forever be saved.

MahogonySnail · Jan 22, 2010

There's a couple of reasons Jesus gave where a person could lose salvation:
denying Him , unforgiveness, defrauding or abusing brethren, faithlessness, adultery (including marrying a divorcee- yes that's what Jesus said if you believe that marrying a divorced person is adultery), blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Paul in his writings added a few more.. you know the ones,idolatary, adultery, fornication, drunkardness etc.. do not inherit the kingdom of God.

All of these come under the general category of 'lawlessness' by which Jesus said he would say ' i never knew you' which is a way of saying "ii never recognised that you belonged to me even though you (and others you know, even your church pastor) thought you did, because you did not follow and obey my commands and because you didn't obey me it shows that you never really loved me".

wattie · Jan 22, 2010

G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

So we entrust our eternal state with Jesus.. receiving everlasting life..

Rom 10:10 ForG1063 with the heartG2588 man believethG4100 untoG1519 righteousness;G1343 andG1161 with the mouthG4750 confession is madeG3670 untoG1519 salvation.G4991

now as time goes on after salvation.. we may stumble and fall.. but..

Eph 4:30 AndG2532 grieveG3076 notG3361 theG3588 holyG40 SpiritG4151 of God,G2316 wherebyG1722 G3739 ye are sealedG4972 untoG1519 the dayG2250 of redemption.G629

So if we fail, the Holy Spirit has still sealed us unto the day of redemption.

'Faith without works is dead'.. this is not about eternal salvation but by context.. the daily system of faith
as Thaddeus has said.. you don do the works you still have faith as in the faith of Christ who has indwelled you.. but you aren't using it.. it is dormant, useless, dead in the lifeless sense of the word.. not in the gone or finished sense.

'where there is remission of these there is no longer a sacrfiice for sin'.. this is not about eternal salvation but the fact that goats and bulls can no longer be offered to atone for ones sin.. check the context.

'he who endures to the end will be saved'- not about eternal salvation but being delivered or rescued from tribulation and trials. The context is not about eternal salvation.

Hebrews 6- similar to 'where their is remission...' - if a saved person fails in their walk they can't put Jesus back on the cross to pay for their sin again.. because He has already done it! The passage is saying that this just can't happen.. it's impossible. Jesus' work is done for them already. 'Fall' in this passage doesn't mean lose salvation. It is related to the system of sacrifice that people were used to of continually offering up sacrifices. Jesus is the one sacrifice for them.. so they no longer need to do this.

'If we deny Him.. He will deny us'... in the same passage leading up to this verse, there is also-- 'if we are faithless He remains faithful'.. scripture does not contradict itself.. so the 'denying' must be referring to either rejecting salvation to begin with.. or the concept of witholding love.. denying blessings.. so if we hold back on Him.. He will hold back on us.

If it were referring to loss of salvation.. it would contradict itself. Something like if we are unfaithful He will stay with us.. If we deny Him.. He will condemn us to hell.. that doesn't make any sense.

so point is.. Jesus commits to us through the Holy Spirit beyond our behaviours after we have been saved by Him, and the Holy Spirit has sealed us.. continually upholding our salvation.

(1Pe 1:3-5) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

MahogonySnail · Jan 22, 2010

Every bible commentary I have read on this 'He remains faithful' verse says it means JESUS REMAINS FAITHFUL TO DENY US or punish us IF WE DENY HIM. Jesus cannot contradict Himself!

Do you know JESUS said these things BECAUSE they were to go through tribulation and IN CASE ANY OF THEM FELL AWAY DUE TO FEAR.
SO MANY PEOPLE DIED RATHER THAN DENY HIM FOR THAT VERY REASON.
Your OSAS doctrines MAKES A MOCKERY of all those people who REMAINED FAITHFUL TO THE END. If OSAS is true JESUS MAY HAVE WELL SAID "Don't worry about denying me, you'll be saved anyway and only lose a few rewards". WRONG. Jesus said HE WILL DENY US!

MahogonySnail · Jan 22, 2010

Peter wept greatly after denying Christ, because he knew the possible eternal consequences of his actions. Judas Iscariot did not repent and RECEIVED that very DENIAL from Christ that CHRIST WARNED ABOUT and so JUDAS, despite receiving the Spirit for working miracles, despite being a trusted friend of Christ, despite being a called and chosen disciple and apostle, WENT TO HELL.

kept....through faith"..

IN OTHER WORDS.

IF you lose faith.. you will not be kept by the power of God.

Which is why the bible repeatedly exhorts to GROW IN FAITH

WITHOUT FAITH, no one can PLEASE GOD. And if you don't please GOD by faith, you are NOT GOING TO HEAVEN.

Nuhen · Jan 22, 2010

I don't really believe in once saved always saved, personally...

wattie · Jan 22, 2010

MahogonySnail said:

So if you rebel against your parents. .you lose your biological connection to them? You actualy have the power to undo a biological connection?

Jesus commits to us to a greater degree than biologically when we are saved.. because it is spiritual.. not physical.

If your son were to hold a gun to his own head to try and commit suicide.. what is the loving thing to do? Let him blow himself away.. or taking away the gun?

God removes our ability to terminate our own salvation because that is loving. Terminating our salvation is WORSE than suicide. He would not love us if he let us just go and do it.

Free will to ask Christ in.. but not free will to take and leave Jesus as we please.

Anyway, in regards to that passage.. it has in the KJV.. that 'if we believe not he abideth faithful'

so with 'abideth' it changes the meaning a bit.. given that abiding in other verses is to do with Jesus continuing to be with people.. or us continuing to grow with Him. So if we were to take it as remaining faithful to condemn us..how does that fit with 'abiding'?

I can see how the passage could be meaning someone who rejects salvation will be condemned.. but I don't see how it could be for a saved person. If Jesus has given them eternal life.. it isn't really eternal if it can be undone.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

wattie · Jan 22, 2010

I don't really believe Jesus' atonement for sin is limited personally

I don't really believe salvation is a hire purchase agreement personally.

I don't really believe eternal life doesn't mean eternal.. personally

I don't really believe being saved is only temporary given certain conditions.. personally

over and out

joint-heir · Jan 22, 2010

HERE is the bottom line

IS ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED ACCURATE?
ABSOLUTELY NOT

WHERE IS MY PROOF?

JESUS SAID IN ...JOHN 5:14... BEHOLD THOU ART MADE WHOLE (SAVED WITHOUT SIN) : SIN NO MORE, LEST A WORSE THING( THIS IS NOT YOU ARE UNDER GRACE SO NO WORRIES ) COME UNTO THEE..........NOTICE JESUS DID NOT SAY BUT AFTER I DIE THEN YOU CAN DO AS YOU PLEASE..........

JESUS HIMSELF IS CLEAR ABOUT ONCE YOU ARE SAVED LIKE THIS MAN WAS MADE WHOLE THAT NOW DO NOT GO AND SIN
OR
A WORST THING WILL COME UNTO THEE
WHAT IS A WORST THING?
SIN OPENS THE DOORWAY TO SATAN UNTIL YOU GET FORGIVENESS OF THAT SIN YOU COMMITTED

NOTICE
I WANT THIS TO BE VERY CLEAR
JESUS
KNEW WHAT HIS PURPOSE WAS HERE ON EARTH
HE KNEW HIS DEATH AS SIN WOULD BECOME A REMEDY TO OUR SINS
BUT EVEN IN THAT
HE STILL TOLD THIS MAN SPECIFICLY
TO SIN NO MORE OR SOMETHING WORST WOULD HAPPEN
THIS IS NOT IF YOU SIN IT IS OK DONT SWEAT IT
ABSOLUTELY NOT
THAT IS THE MOST HYPOCRYTICAL LIE KNOWN TO MAN
YOU GET SAVED NOW YOU HAVE A FREE PASS
JESUS NEVER SAID THAT
HE SAID SINCE YOU ARE MADE WHOLE WHICH IS SAVED TO NOT SIN OR SOMETHING WORST WILL HAPPEN

WITH JESUS' OWN WORDS
HE TELLS US
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS A LIE

wattie · Jan 22, 2010

Jesus will still convict and rebuke a saved person who is sinning. That He will do. And that person will lose close fellowship with Jesus. But for Jesus to undo what He has already done for them.. in forgiving their sin? That's a hire purchase salvation.. and He hasn't really given anything eternal.

The distinction is saving faith.. which is once off.. permanent forgivness of all sins past present and future.. and daily faith.. which is how close we will be with Jesus if we keep His commandments.

saving faith-- Romans 10

daily faith- 'faith without works is dead'

HumbleSaint · Jan 22, 2010

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19

joint-heir · Jan 22, 2010

wattie said:

JESUS was specific in GO AND SIN NO MORE

you are looking for ways to get by so you dont have to live to that standard THEN this is a false doctirne

for JESUS who is GOD
WAS SPECIFIC

and sinning after being saved is more than just being away from GOD
if you do not get forgiveness
it can lead you to BACKSLIDING
and the scripture is specific that a BACKSLIDER
was one who was saved but fell
and the SCRIPTURES say once you BACKSLIDE
that DEMONS enter into you
and if you dont seek GOD
then you are on verge of becoming APOSTATE

SO NOTICE THE PROGRESSION
1 SIN
BECOMES MANY
IF YOU DO NOT GET FORGIVENESS OF THEM

THIS WOULD BE JESUS SAYING.....LEST A WORST THING HAPPEN

MahogonySnail · Jan 22, 2010

Wattie as a matter of fact, there are early church sermons by ...Ireneaus i think it was, or someone like that... which describes how a person may be DISOWNED by God just like a person may DIVORCE their parents or be owned by them. YES IT HAPPENS.

THis view also has OLD TESTAMENT PROOF. The Israelites were called CHILDREN OF GOD, but God had NO ISSUE with destroying them and CASTING THEM AWAY. He reserved for Himself a REMNANT who DID NOT BOW TO BAAL, but the REST were REJECTED.

As history repeats itself , especially prophetic history, the SAME THING will happen in the Church.

But always remember we are not BIOLOGICALLY CONNECTED TO GOD ourself, we are ADOPTED Sons and daughters of God THROUGH JESUS Christ.

IF you lose Jesus Christ you LOSE your adopted sonship. WE are His Temple and HE has departed His temple before...

To paraphrase what apostle Paul wrote to a Gentile church, let us NOT be highminded then by the fact we are "biologically, or spiritually rather, connected" to God, but rather FEAR, looking to the Israelites as OUR example where so many thousand were KILLED in one day due to disobedience and faithlessness.

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the teachings of Jesus, and take particular note the times Jesus preaches about the dangers of hell even TO HIS FOLLOWERS, about being cast out , losing saltiness, being burnt and withered and "good for nothing but to be burnt".

And remember, that when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, He is not separating them based upon what doctrine they believe, but upon what they DO.

Once Saved - Always Saved - Only saved a "works" based gospel?

HumbleSaint

Guest

Banned

HumbleSaint

Guest

Banned

Banned

charisenexcelcis

Guest

mcubed

Guest

HumbleSaint

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

HumbleSaint

Guest

Banned

Banned