Original Sin, fact or fable.

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Churinga

Active member
Nov 12, 2018
180
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28
#1
The entire doctrine of Original Sin is succinctly summed up in the following statement excerpted from an article entitled The Myth of Original Sin by Tom Overstreet..
  • Most Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin are ignorant of exactly what its teachings really are. They are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine has not always existed. They are ignorant of the fact that it evolved, that it had its roots in a heathen philosophy, and that it was made a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the 5th century A.D. They are ignorant of the fact that it is only a theory, and that there is really not one but several differing theories that have evolved and come down to us in the church. They are also ignorant of the fact that the Bible passages used as proof-texts for this doctrine have been taken out of context and tortured into teaching a doctrine that is completely foreign to the Bible. Finally, they are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine of original sin is an evil doctrine that corrupts Christian practice, blackens the character of God, excuses sin in the sinner, contradicts the Bible, makes Jesus a sinner, harms the cause of Christ, and stumbles professing Christians into hell. And it is this ignorance of Christians concerning these facts that helps to protect and perpetuate the doctrine of original sin. [1]

**link removed**
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,597
3,246
113
#2
Finally, they are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine of original sin is an evil doctrine that corrupts Christian practice, blackens the character of God, excuses sin in the sinner, contradicts the Bible, makes Jesus a sinner, harms the cause of Christ, and stumbles professing Christians into hell.
This assessment appears to be totally MISLEADING and contrary to Scripture.

Since the term comes from the Catholic Church, let us see what they say, rather than take second-hand opinions.

According the the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:
Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.... The classical text is Romans 5:12 sqq... (1) The sin of Adam has injured the human race at least in the sense that it has introduced death — "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men".... (2) Adam by his fault transmitted to us not only death but also sin, "for as by the disobedience of one man many [i.e., all men] were made sinners" (Romans 5:19)... (3) Since Adam transmits death to his children by way of generation when he begets them mortal, it is by generation also that he transmits to them sin, for the Apostle presents these two effects as produced at the same time and by the same causality.

The New Advent article goes on to talk about Pelagians and Catholic doctrine etc. which need not concern us. What is stated above, quoting the relevant Scriptures, is perfectly in accordance with Bible doctrine. So for this man to call it *an evil doctrine* means that he is actually OPPOSING SCRIPTURE. BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS.

What Original Sin means is simply that because of Adam s disobedience, the entire human race came under A CURSE -- the curse of sin and death, which leads to decay and corruption. All human beings are therefore born with a sin nature, and eventually all become sinners, and all need to be saved by God s grace:

ROMANS 3
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God...
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,044
183
63
#3
The entire doctrine of Original Sin is succinctly summed up in the following statement excerpted from an article entitled The Myth of Original Sin by Tom Overstreet..
  • Most Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin are ignorant of exactly what its teachings really are. They are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine has not always existed. They are ignorant of the fact that it evolved, that it had its roots in a heathen philosophy, and that it was made a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the 5th century A.D. They are ignorant of the fact that it is only a theory, and that there is really not one but several differing theories that have evolved and come down to us in the church. They are also ignorant of the fact that the Bible passages used as proof-texts for this doctrine have been taken out of context and tortured into teaching a doctrine that is completely foreign to the Bible. Finally, they are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine of original sin is an evil doctrine that corrupts Christian practice, blackens the character of God, excuses sin in the sinner, contradicts the Bible, makes Jesus a sinner, harms the cause of Christ, and stumbles professing Christians into hell. And it is this ignorance of Christians concerning these facts that helps to protect and perpetuate the doctrine of original sin. [1]

**link removed**
For those interested you should find This short study insightful...
 
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Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
#4
To put it simply, as a group we are flawed people from the very beginning. Jesus represents the moral code of how we are to live better with respect to one another.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
113
#5
Fact my friend. Adam represented all of mankind and when he fell, we fell, being in Adam. Jesus is the last Adam, and He represented all those the Father gave Him. Romans 5:12-19 is crystal clear on this.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,247
2,405
113
#6
Fact definately.

its the only way to explain why the WICKED go ASTRAY from the womb!
And why ALL SIN eventually.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,737
1,042
113
#7
The idea of original sins simply opens the door to the necromancy doctrines of purgatory .

Its goal is to divide sin making it manageable and forgivable through a hierarchy of men and therefore divide the wage which is eternal into two compartments what they must call "mortal" and "venial"

James inform us to violate one point a person will be found guilty of the whole wage. Its simply there way to say the grace of Christ fell short of the glory of God and when Christ said it is finished his grace only supplied a unknown remnant to forgive the eternal .

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,684
1,997
113
#8
Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,257
5,663
113
#9
To put it simply, as a group we are flawed people from the very beginning. Jesus represents the moral code of how we are to live better with respect to one another.
This is true but woefully inadequate. We don't live better by emulating Jesus; we live better by believing in Him and being changed from the inside out by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
#10
This is true but woefully inadequate. We don't live better by emulating Jesus; we live better by believing in Him and being changed from the inside out by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Yes, good point!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,257
5,663
113
#11
The idea of original sins simply opens the door to the necromancy doctrines of purgatory .

Its goal is to divide sin making it manageable and forgivable through a hierarchy of men and therefore divide the wage which is eternal into two compartments what they must call "mortal" and "venial"

James inform us to violate one point a person will be found guilty of the whole wage. Its simply there way to say the grace of Christ fell short of the glory of God and when Christ said it is finished his grace only supplied a unknown remnant to forgive the eternal .

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Huh? What are you on about?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,597
3,246
113
#12
The idea of original sins simply opens the door to the necromancy doctrines of purgatory .
That is simply nonsense.

The reason that the Gospel needs to be preached to every creature is because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

And the reason that sin and death are the curse of the human race is because of Adam. It is all there is the Bible.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,247
2,405
113
#13
garee could you clarify what you mean? I know you are a good guy but sometimes reading your posts I feel like I need an egyptian hieroglyph expert to translate it for me.
Im not the sharpest tool in the shed, so can you translate it to me? Why does original sin open the door to purgatory?
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,100
336
83
#14
The entire doctrine of Original Sin is succinctly summed up in the following statement excerpted from an article entitled The Myth of Original Sin by Tom Overstreet..
  • Most Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin are ignorant of exactly what its teachings really are. They are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine has not always existed. They are ignorant of the fact that it evolved, that it had its roots in a heathen philosophy, and that it was made a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the 5th century A.D. They are ignorant of the fact that it is only a theory, and that there is really not one but several differing theories that have evolved and come down to us in the church. They are also ignorant of the fact that the Bible passages used as proof-texts for this doctrine have been taken out of context and tortured into teaching a doctrine that is completely foreign to the Bible. Finally, they are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine of original sin is an evil doctrine that corrupts Christian practice, blackens the character of God, excuses sin in the sinner, contradicts the Bible, makes Jesus a sinner, harms the cause of Christ, and stumbles professing Christians into hell. And it is this ignorance of Christians concerning these facts that helps to protect and perpetuate the doctrine of original sin. [1]
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/original_sin_fact_or_fable.html
This is what it is concerning Adam and Eve sinning, and then all their offspring are born in to sin.

Nobody is responsible for the sins of others, for everybody will bear their own sins.

If your dad sins that is not on you, or if anybody else sins that is not on you.

The sin of Adam and Eve does not come upon mankind for that is their sin not the rest of the world's sin, and whether they ate off the tree, or someone stole a car, sin is sin.

Adam and Eve were created knowing God, an innocent nature in flesh.

It would of never entered their mind to eat from the tree unless an outside source tempted them by giving then an alternative to the situation.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve in which he told her did God really say they could not eat from the tree, which she stood firm and said we may not, and then he tempted her saying she would be greater than her current position, and be as god knowing good and evil, and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him it was alright to eat off the tree for nothing happened to her, and she did not die.

When Adam and Eve sinned then they had a choice between good and evil, and would have to decide between the good and evil, instead of only seeing good before they were tempted.

So all their offspring are born with a choice between good and evil, so people are born not knowing God, so they will do evil before they come to God in the truth, and repent of their sins and follow Him, so all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Not all have been born with sin attached to them because of Adam and Eve, but all have sinned, done the act, and have fallen short of the glory of God.

We are born innocent with no sin on our record, but because we are born with a choice we will do wrong before we do right and follow God.

That is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, because we are born innocent, and the little ones are protected spiritually until they understand good and evil clearly, and can make the choice knowing the difference between good and evil to where it affects them because of their choice in the spiritual realm.

Adam and Eve's sin does not come upon mankind, but their choice to choose good and evil comes upon mankind.

Babies do not need to be baptized, or forgiven, for their is no sin on their record, until they come to the age of accountability then the evil they do counts against them until they correct it, which everybody will sin before they do good to follow God, and repent of their sins.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,245
936
113
#15
The entire doctrine of Original Sin is succinctly summed up in the following statement excerpted from an article entitled The Myth of Original Sin by Tom Overstreet..
  • Most Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin are ignorant of exactly what its teachings really are. They are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine has not always existed. They are ignorant of the fact that it evolved, that it had its roots in a heathen philosophy, and that it was made a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the 5th century A.D. They are ignorant of the fact that it is only a theory, and that there is really not one but several differing theories that have evolved and come down to us in the church.

  • They are also ignorant of the fact that the Bible passages used as proof-texts for this doctrine have been taken out of context and tortured into teaching a doctrine that is completely foreign to the Bible. Finally, they are ignorant of the fact that the doctrine of original sin is an evil doctrine that corrupts Christian practice, blackens the character of God, excuses sin in the sinner, contradicts the Bible, makes Jesus a sinner, harms the cause of Christ, and stumbles professing Christians into hell.

  • And it is this ignorance of Christians concerning these facts that helps to protect and perpetuate the doctrine of original sin. [1]
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/original_sin_fact_or_fable.html
I hope I don’t sound:(silly,but what Is the doctrine of sin?
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#16
Original sin is a doctrine ( doctrine - a teaching in Christianity ) because it has a place in the dogma on the state of the natural man, why we are born with the stain of sin. Adam as the federal head of the human race has been held as the one accountable in Romans 5. that his sin was imputed to all mankind.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,871
113
#17
Distinction & Nuance

The problem is there are different "parts" to the doctrine of original sin.

It is possible, therefore, to agree with some parts and not other parts.

If someone asks me if I believe in original sin,
I answer by saying "Well, what do you mean by original sin?"



...
...
 

Churinga

Active member
Nov 12, 2018
180
59
28
#18
Original sin is a doctrine ( doctrine - a teaching in Christianity ) because it has a place in the dogma on the state of the natural man, why we are born with the stain of sin. Adam as the federal head of the human race has been held as the one accountable in Romans 5. that his sin was imputed to all mankind.
If people choose not to read the article then they can only form a comment based on prior teaching and conviction there would be less 1% of people that have reexamined the doctrine which originates with Augustine and picked up by Calvin.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#19
If people choose not to read the article then they can only form a comment based on prior teaching and conviction there would be less 1% of people that have reexamined the doctrine which originates with Augustine and picked up by Calvin.
"Most Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin are ignorant..." AND these are the first words of your quote. The writer claims superior knowledge which turns me off immediately,..and besides he is just plain wrong.
 

Churinga

Active member
Nov 12, 2018
180
59
28
#20
"Most Christians who profess to believe in the doctrine of original sin are ignorant..." AND these are the first words of your quote. The writer claims superior knowledge which turns me off immediately,..and besides he is just plain wrong.
If you can read the entire article by way of rebuttal saying someone is plain wrong is hardly a fair comment, most creeds and statements of faith allude to Original Sin or the Fall of Man or even Total Depravity.