OSAS warning

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roaringkitten

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#1
In this thread I do NOT intent to have debates about OSAS. I'm going to take a different approach on this. I know there are many staunch critics of this belief, and we have discussed OSAS many times already on different threads. I do not want to turn this thread into a debate about OSAS, but more of a warning to those who think they have a license to sin regardless if you believe in this doctrine or not.

I have noticed 2 different camps who do not believe in OSAS.
camp #1- these believe that you must continue in Holy living to not lose salvation
camp#2- these believe that losing it has nothing to do with failing in "good works" after salvation, but who believe one can one day "lose faith in Jesus". In other words, they think one can become a Christian, then at a future time STOP believing in Christ(those that "quit" faith).

This thread I am going to give a very stern warning to those that blatantly sin, thinking they have a license to do whatever they want after they believe. Whatever belief you hold on to(even though I am passionate about OSAS) I intend to show scripture that admonishes those who blatantly sin.

There are primarily 2 reasons why "professing" Christians willingly sin after their "conversion":

1)They are immature in the faith
2)They were false converts to begin with

I am willing to bet those that live in blatant sin for extended periods, most of them are in the second camp. This is why, read these Scriptures:

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4

"For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God" John 12:43

"Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked." Psalm 97:10

It is VERY clear that unbelievers and believers have a different view on sin. Those who are lost, live in sin happily, those who are believers become guilty when they sin because of the Holy Spirit's prodding in their lives, they find it disheartening! Only the believer HAS the Holy Spirit endwelling within them:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" John 16:7-8

The Holy Spirit convicts the unbeliever, but does not endwell him/her until faith is placed on Jesus Christ. He convicts the world of sin, shows the way of righteousness(through faith in Jesus), and warns of condemnation and judgment on those who do not believe in the gospel.

Those who thought they came to Christ without the acknowledgement of their sins are false converts as cleary taught in the Scriptures:

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:19-20

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives." 1 John 1:9-10

As Christians we are dealt as sons, as unbelievers, they are dealt as sinners.

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" Hebrews 12:5-7

"For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief." Proverb 24:16

A just man has the Holy Spirit endwelling within them, and the "riseth up again" is because they do not condone sin and forsake it because their new nature in Christ convicts them to repentance. The wicked(ie: unsaved) CANNOT rise up again, because their mind is seared as a hot iron against things of righteousness. They may have the Holy Spirit prodding them to believe the gospel, but not because the Spirit endwells them. For all unbelievers ignore the prodding of the Holy Spirit until they yield to Christ for the forgiveness of their sins and salvation.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

This verse is saying that because we are free from the CONDEMNATION under the law, doesn't make the law void(ie:give one permission to sin).....It gives us a desire to KEEP the law, and uphold it.


Why would a professing Christian who had his former destiny(the horrors of the lake of fire) changed around by the precious blood of Jesus Christ even think for one second that he COULD sin willingly for fun? Jesus paid a debt we could not pay, he gave us this gift FREELY! If someone really received it, I for one would DESIRE with all my heart to live for Him and ask Him to change my life!

We all struggle with sin in our Christian lives in various degrees. Does it bother you? If it does then that is the Holy Spirit convicting you to walk in His ways again. Now I know many cases where Christians are caught up in addictions and become bonded to sin in various ways but were VERY GRIEVOUS about it! That does not legitimize sin, but shows the Holy Spirit in their lives grieving for it, prodding them to repent and rise again(Proverbs 24:16) Paul struggled with it all the time but the CHIEF attribute was that it GRIEVED him!!!(Romans 7: 17-24 ).

Now the point I'm making is that sin in a GENUINE Christian's life will at one point make them GRIEVE over it. Sin in an unbelievers life, they will try and justify it and do it for fun, without any remorse.

With that in mind I urge everyone who thinks they have a license to sin as a believer to make sure you are in the faith. Also, to us Christians, we will NOT get away with ANYTHING. Dont think for a second you will escape the judgment seat of Christ! While you will not be judged as a sinner(because Jesus has paid the price for your sins) you will give an account to God one day EVERYTHING you did! Too many people think that Christians will just have a free pass on the day of the Lord, that we will get away with everything we did as Christians. Consider these verses:

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10

"That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified." 1 Thessalonians 4:6

The judgment seat of Christ will be like a "civil court" while the Great White Throne judgement will be like a "criminal court".....The believers go to the civil court, the unbelievers go to the criminal court(Revelation 20:12)

David feared the wrath of God, because even though he was saved, he would one day give an account of his life before the Lord one day(Psalm 38:1). Christians will gain or lose rewards at the judgement seat of Christ.

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" 1st Corinthians 3:11-15

Carefully notice this verse is NOT talking about the foolish man who built his house on sand. "if any man build UPON this foundation". It is speaking to believers here. God will repay the wrongs done in our Christian lives if we do not make things right while we are living(ie:forgiveness, etc).

Carefully study additional Scripture to see the two types of judgments(one for the believer and one for the lost)...

So I give this warning out to all true believers. You will be held accountable to God one day for the conduct you live. While you are saved by the precious blood of Christ, many will lose rewards at the judgement seat. And to those that legitimize sin, I beg you to check that you are in the faith. Because TRUE faith will produce good works.

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" Philippians 1:6



 
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NazariteNation

Guest
#2
I've been doing a lot of research on OSAS and have read that there are basically two camps within the belief. Both believe in Eternal Security however, one believes in something called a "carnal christian" and the other does not. From what I've read of your message, would it be safe to assume that you do not?

Because the concept of a "carnal christian" is a large obstacle for those who do not believe in OSAS yet are studying the doctrine. The idea being how can God condemn one man for committing certain sins and not another for committing the same sins if neither had repented for those particular sins before they died. That would be unjust and make God appear to be a hypocrit in the eyes of many.

Not trying to debate here. Just trying to get a better understanding seeing as their seems to be two perspectives on this idea....
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
#3
Naz, a large part of the idea rests on the fact that God is just, and that a Christian who is indeed a Christian but sins willingly will give an account before God on the day of the Lord. A Christian will get rewards or lose them.....There will be many Christians who suffer much loss when they get to the judgment seat of Christ. What God is saying is that NO ONE will get away with anything(to the Christian-he will suffer loss in heaven, to the unsaved, they are doomed in the lake of fire).

A carnal Christian is one who edifies the flesh and not the things of the Spirit, but God views anything that is not Godly as carnal(It's either of God or not). And we do in fact have a raging battle going on inside between the flesh and spirit as Paul was explaining in Romans.

The difference being that some Christians are fighting the flesh(ie:addictions) and some are in fact not Christians at all. So, it is a tight rope to play with to differentiate between a professing Christian who lives in sin or a professing one who is indeed not saved at all. When it comes down to it, God knows the heart but man is justified by men on the exterior(which is what part of James speaks about). If a Christian willingly sins then after a while feels bad about it, thats the Holy Spirit inside them(Proverb 24:16) convicting them. If a professing Christian sins willingly for the rest of his life and never feels bad about it once, I would seriously doubt his conversion....Which is why this topic is so difficult to explain......Some Christians were carnal(see 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 ) in the church, and some had to be kicked out of the church.

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
1 Corinthians 5:5

But like I said before, it can be very tricky in this subject of "false conversions" and true conversions....Only God knows for sure if one truly believed upon the Lord.....
 
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NazariteNation

Guest
#4
Naz, a large part of the idea rests on the fact that God is just, and that a Christian who is indeed a Christian but sins willingly will give an account before God on the day of the Lord. A Christian will get rewards or lose them.....There will be many Christians who suffer much loss when they get to the judgment seat of Christ. What God is saying is that NO ONE will get away with anything(to the Christian-he will suffer loss in heaven, to the unsaved, they are doomed in the lake of fire).

A carnal Christian is one who edifies the flesh and not the things of the Spirit, but God views anything that is not Godly as carnal(It's either of God or not). And we do in fact have a raging battle going on inside between the flesh and spirit as Paul was explaining in Romans.

The difference being that some Christians are fighting the flesh(ie:addictions) and some are in fact not Christians at all. So, it is a tight rope to play with to differentiate between a professing Christian who lives in sin or a professing one who is indeed not saved at all. When it comes down to it, God knows the heart but man is justified by men on the exterior(which is what part of James speaks about). If a Christian willingly sins then after a while feels bad about it, thats the Holy Spirit inside them(Proverb 24:16) convicting them. If a professing Christian sins willingly for the rest of his life and never feels bad about it once, I would seriously doubt his conversion....Which is why this topic is so difficult to explain......Some Christians were carnal(see 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 ) in the church, and some had to be kicked out of the church.

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
1 Corinthians 5:5

But like I said before, it can be very tricky in this subject of "false conversions" and true conversions....Only God knows for sure if one truly believed upon the Lord.....
I see what you are saying. I guess the scary part to me is if we can't tell a christian from a sinner then who can you trust? (other than Jesus!)

I do agree that one man should not condemn another (that is the Lord's job) however, I do feel that Jesus does indeed tell us how we can tell authentic christians from the fake and that is by their fruits (Matthew 17 I believe). By no means are you condemning them but rather you can a lot about a person by observing their behavior. With most people, what you take in ussually manifests itself somehow in your outward behavior.

It is my hope people understand that, while I may have spoken out against OSAS doctrine, by no means is it a personal attack on anyone's salvation or personal faith. I've met some really great christians with a real heart for God who do believe in OSAS. While I till don't agree with what I have researched, for the sake of the friends that I have made, I would like to at least come to an understanding of their perspective.
 
Jan 26, 2009
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#5
heb10:15 says
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."[b] 17Then he adds:
"Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more."[c] 18And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin. 19Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d] and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[e] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

OSAS doctorine tends to eat the meaty part and deny the real substance in da scripture
we cannot live lyk demons and come to da church and say we are delivered
paul time afra time warns us abt the wrath of God lyk for eg
1 cor6
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#6
But there are some of us osas that still live by

Ro 6:14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.Ro 6:15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


and of course
Ro 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.Ro 12:2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

but we also believe

Eph 4:30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of redemption.
and we also believe that what ever God has shut ( sealed) that no man can open.

and I am not debating but just letting you know what some of us believe we also believe
1jo 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:1jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.1jo 2:3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

notice the children are being spoken to and IF they sin we have an advocate with the Father
 
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