Pastors

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#1
I have a question or two what makes a good pastor, and what makes a bad one?
What is their true role, and how are they different from other kinds of ministers in the church?
What examples of pastors in the OT and NT that we can learn from?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#2
The best place to find the answers to your questions will be in the epistles written to Timothy 1 & 2 and Titus
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#3
Is a bishop, the same as a pastor. What about a deacon.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#4
According to Timothy, a bishop is someone who knows how to rule his own house well. The same as a deacon.

And hospitable.

If thats the same as a pastor, then maybe we ought to be wary of pastors that have broken dysfnctional families, and never invite anyon to their home, or have several wives.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,563
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#5
According to Timothy, a bishop is someone who knows how to rule his own house well. The same as a deacon.

And hospitable.

If thats the same as a pastor, then maybe we ought to be wary of pastors that have broken dysfnctional families, and never invite anyon to their home, or have several wives.
"Bishop" is not a biblical word; it's an English word that was used in the KJV in place of the Greek word "episkopos" which means "overseer". Paul's letter to Timothy outlines the qualifications for functioning in the role of "overseer", of which "manages their household well" is one of several. The "his" also isn't in the Greek.

The only mention of "pastor" (Greek "poimen") in the NT is in Ephesians 4, where it is listed alongside other leadership functions. The word itself means "shepherd". "Pastor" comes from the same root from which we get "pasture". "Shepherd" is translated from the same Greek word, and appears far more often in the NT, so that gives us a better idea of the role and responsibilities.

Deacons and elders have different roles and responsibilities. Deacons are first described in Acts 6, where the term is used of several men who were chosen to fulfill a specific needed function in the burgeoning church. Those who are officially recognized and appointed to a specific ministry in a local church, but who are not in any governing role, would be comparable to deacons.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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#6
I have a question or two what makes a good pastor, and what makes a bad one?
What is their true role, and how are they different from other kinds of ministers in the church?
What examples of pastors in the OT and NT that we can learn from?
Hi Lanolin, a short definition of a Pastor, and as you say, "what is their true role." would be exactly what Jesus say's to Peter, "Feed my Sheep", that is their true primary role of a Pastor according to the bible. Of course this role comes with many more responsibilities and these are revealed in scripture as well.

In the sermon below by C.H. Spergeon he refers to Pastor's as, "will you be my Instruments" and through the Holy Spirit, "FEED MY SHEEP." John21:16

John 21:17: Jesus Reinstates Peter
17) Jesus asked a third time, “Simon son of John, do you love Me?”
Peter was deeply hurt that Jesus had asked him a third time, “Do you love Me?”
“Lord, You know all things,” he replied. “You know I love You.”
Jesus said to him,Feed My sheep."

Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit 1 Volume 56

“A SERMON DELIVERED by: C.H. SPURGEON -- "FEED MY SHEEP, NO. 3211
A SERMON TO MINISTERS AND STUDENTS, PUBLISHED ON THURSDAY, AUGUST 18, 1910,
AT THE PASTOR’S COLLEGE CONFERENCE, ON FRIDAY MORNING, APRIL 13, 1877.
He said unto him, Feed My sheep.” John 21:16.
Much honor lies in the fact that our Lord says to each of us personally, Feed My sheep.” I think that I see Him here among us. He of the pierced hands and the marred countenance, with the crown of thorns about His brow stands in this hall and speaks to us. Or, if you will, with all His glories on, He comes among us! He looks on us all and even on me, my dear brothers—and He says to each of us, “Do you see those poor tempted people? They are My sheep. I have loved them from before the foundation of the world.

Will you feed them for Me? I have called them out of the world by victorious grace, will you feed them for Me? I have provided abundant pasture for them, will you feed them for Me? I have bought them with My blood—behold the memorials of My purchase in My hands and My feet, My head and My side—will you feed them for Me? I have also loved you, and you love Me—will you feed My sheep for Me? I will feed you, will you feed them? Your bread shall be given you and your water shall be sure—will you feed My beloved ones for Me?

I have gone to prepare a place for them in My own sweet pastures on the hilltops of glory. Will you feed them till I come again? I will feed them through you by the Holy Spirit—will you be My instruments?” Do we not all reply, “Beloved Master, we think it our highest honor to be privileged thus and, cost us what it may, we will spend our lives in feeding Your sheep”? Brothers, say not much by way of a vow, but say much by way of prayer! Lord, help us all henceforth to feed Your sheep! Amen.

PLEASE PRAY THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL USE THIS SERMON TO
BRING MANY TO A SAVING KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,644
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#7
According to Timothy, a bishop is someone who knows how to rule his own house well. The same as a deacon.

And hospitable.

If thats the same as a pastor, then maybe we ought to be wary of pastors that have broken dysfnctional families, and never invite anyon to their home, or have several wives.
When that was written I doubt there were many dysfunctional homes If any..
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,644
1,809
113
#8
I have a question or two what makes a good pastor, and what makes a bad one?
What is their true role, and how are they different from other kinds of ministers in the church?
What examples of pastors in the OT and NT that we can learn from?
I think the scriptures themselves tells us what a bad pastor would be. A hireling.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,406
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#9
Ok the word episkopis isnt that where the word episcopalian comes from?

In anglican churches they arent called pastors at all, its reverend, or vicar, or priest. They do have bishops, but other churches dont have bishops, some have elders, but some dont have deacons. Its all very confusing at times.

In acts 6, they appoint seven deacons.
As for pastors...can there be as many as is practical...but all churches have at least one dont they? What about chaplains are they the same.

What else is a pastor meant to do, the obvious one is give a sermon each week, (this is the feeding of the flock) but do many do more than that...or do they do this in other ways. What if the sheep cannot come to be gathered does the pastor go out and look for them, call them. Can a pastor ever turn someone away and say Im too busy for you right now.

How do people know they are called to pastor? Is a youth leader or bible study leader the same as as a pastor. How does a pastor know the state of his flock..can he tell if they are healthy or not just in terms of numbers, what does a healthy flock look like.

I notice many books and articles talking about pastors often boast how many members belong to their flock but is numbers any indication of a healthy flock?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
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#10
I think the scriptures themselves tells us what a bad pastor would be. A hireling.
I notice some churches advertise for pastors just the same way as any secular job. How does that work, and who interviews or appoints them?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,418
356
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#11
I have a question or two what makes a good pastor, and what makes a bad one?
What is their true role, and how are they different from other kinds of ministers in the church?
What examples of pastors in the OT and NT that we can learn from?
You can find a bit of a study Here on the ministeries of The Church..
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
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#12
You can find a bit of a study Here on the ministeries of The Church..
Wow ok thanks its 55 pages but I will give it a read.
Its hard to ask at church stuff about this even the pastors themselves cant even tell you how they got to be there. Sometimes it seems to me if a pastor dont like a congrgation they move on to somewhere else, get poached by bigger churches or, in somes churches they even get dismissed. ?!
 
Mar 25, 2019
44
31
18
#13
A pastor is one call by God and must a true child of God. A good pastor is one that follow the word of God as his standard not his not his own standard to fit his purpose. A bad pastor is the one not lead by God & not called by God. They don't follow bible standard but have their set standard. They have a form of Godliness that is not of God.if u are not careful they lead u astray
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#14
Wow ok thanks its 55 pages but I will give it a read.
Its hard to ask at church stuff about this even the pastors themselves cant even tell you how they got to be there. Sometimes it seems to me if a pastor dont like a congrgation they move on to somewhere else, get poached by bigger churches or, in somes churches they even get dismissed. ?!
The last part of your last sentence? = from that "church of stones" leadership? "We do the payin'?" "We do the sayin'!" As to what they allow any certain pastor to preach or teach!

Should you be attending any certain church where you are not hearing certain things coming from the pulpit, that you think, feel, believe should be taught, or at least addressed?

I'd be making me a bee-line (sorry Miri :p) towards the leadership of that particular assemblage, and act like a "fly on a wall", when possible.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,406
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#15
Well, one church, and this was before I attended or knew anything about it, said they had some ministers or pastor that fell from grace, had an affair or something or other, so they left or got dismissed Im not sure what happened, then they didnt have a pastor for a long time. They had interim or acting pastors. And now they have the current one.

I dont think it was because they (congregation) didnt like what the pastor said, it was more he was morally wrong and having an affair.

Im not sure who does the 'payin' but I think it would be the denominations leadership...? Not the church members themselves. Although some church members act like they pay the pastor to be there and think they can say whether he can or cannot retire.

Question, who really employs pastors and how does their pay even work? Hiw can you tell a hireling from a genuine one called by God? When I see job ads for pastors I wonder, why are there vacancies? Why would a pastor leave a congregation? Unless they gone to be with the Lord I understand but you would think they wouldnt have to advertise. Some job ads even say 'is this you' come be the pastor of our church. Isnt that an open invitation for wolves to apply?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#16
Well, one church, and this was before I attended or knew anything about it, said they had some ministers or pastor that fell from grace, had an affair or something or other, so they left or got dismissed Im not sure what happened, then they didnt have a pastor for a long time. They had interim or acting pastors. And now they have the current one.

I dont think it was because they (congregation) didnt like what the pastor said, it was more he was morally wrong and having an affair.

Im not sure who does the 'payin' but I think it would be the denominations leadership...? Not the church members themselves. Although some church members act like they pay the pastor to be there and think they can say whether he can or cannot retire.

Question, who really employs pastors and how does their pay even work? Hiw can you tell a hireling from a genuine one called by God? When I see job ads for pastors I wonder, why are there vacancies? Why would a pastor leave a congregation? Unless they gone to be with the Lord I understand but you would think they wouldnt have to advertise. Some job ads even say 'is this you' come be the pastor of our church. Isnt that an open invitation for wolves to apply?
I would say a good way of telling an hireling from one truly called by God? Would be to listen to 'em preachin' or talkin'. If he comes across with a mouthful of well pleasin', and not a lot of instruction/s? To the point that you could switch the word Encyclopedia, or car, or vacuum cleaner, with the Word Jesus? I'd say you were in the presence of an hireling. ;)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,406
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#17
I would say a good way of telling an hireling from one truly called by God? Would be to listen to 'em preachin' or talkin'. If he comes across with a mouthful of well pleasin', and not a lot of instruction/s? To the point that you could switch the word Encyclopedia, or car, or vacuum cleaner, with the Word Jesus? I'd say you were in the presence of an hireling. ;)
Give an example please...I'm not quite understanding. Are you saying they are like oily salesmen that knock on doors annoying people? Or telemarketers.

I had one guy once join a bible study, and he tried to ask me for money so I could pay him to spread the gospel. I thought he meant pray, not pay, until he said it would cost him $200 a month plus expenses and would I partner with him.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,406
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#18
And no, it wasnt like a marriage proposal or anything! He even had flip chart and some pie graphs. But when I wouldnt take the bait, he moved on to some others. But he didnt come back to that bible study.

Yea was he recruiting or was it some sort of christian MLM?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#19
The most famous pastor in the bible was probably Moses.

God said he was the most humble man on Earth.
He met with God face to face.
He underestimated his own capabilities to the lead people.
He got angry for the sake of God.
He too made mistakes but he was willing to stick his neck out and show
boldness when it was for God.
He delegated as he realised his limitations.
He got discouraged.
He was afraid at times but he was still willing to be God’s messenger.
He wasn’t perfect he learnt on the job but he was willing to seek God with all
heart continuously even into old age.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#20
Give an example please...I'm not quite understanding. Are you saying they are like oily salesmen that knock on doors annoying people? Or telemarketers.

I had one guy once join a bible study, and he tried to ask me for money so I could pay him to spread the gospel. I thought he meant pray, not pay, until he said it would cost him $200 a month plus expenses and would I partner with him.

Lol!....I would, if I could! I be thanking God, I can't!
If ya can picture some fast talking politician, or salesmen? Large on hype? Very short on substance? You'd be getting an idea. ;)