Pauls vision of the CHURCH.......is it possible?

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PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#1
Paul prayed: That Christ would dwell in our hearts rooted and grounded in love, and that we would be strong, and that we could apprehend with all the saints (past, present, and future ) what is the breadth and the length , and the height , and the depth , and that we should know the love the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, and that we MAY BE FILLED UNTO UNTO ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

Then Paul went on to explain how this is going to happen, saying , Christ gave to the Church, profits , pastors , teachers , apostles , for the perfecting of the saints for the building up of the Body of Christ till we all attain unto the unity of faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, and that we will become a full grown man, and this full grown man will contain the fullness of Christ Himself.

This prayer Paul is praying, is it just a pipe dream, or is he showing a vision of things to come? What if, he is seeing a vision of a life after this life? If it were a life after this life, why would he have prayed for us to put away the man that is growing old with lust and deceit ?

Paul is saying, we as the Church have discovered the reason for our existence .

We no longer are powerless before satin. Jesus took the power of satin away. Now because we are the Body of Christ we posses that which Christ possess. That which remains for us is what we were created for all along.

These bodies we are assigned to will no longer have domino over us. We have possessed them as tho it were a class room. We will always be freewill creatures. How would we ever learn how dreadful this free will could be if we were not taught? What better way to be taught than to expose us to the ultimate temptation.........living in the flesh.

Will the Body of Christ ( the Church ) ever come to except who they are and why? After all churches today cannot even agree on what is moral.
It seems like as the Church we are going backward. But remember this, all these were prophesied from the beginning. Even now there are individuals,like grains of salt sprinkled through out humanity. If it were not true God would have spat us out long ago. We are the salt of the earth.

The purpose of the Church is to sum up all things in Christ Jesus. That is what we are destined for from before the foundation of the earth was laid.

We who are are chosen should no longer submit ourselves to the deeds of the flesh, but our purpose is to bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, self-control against which there is no law

If you look at the Church, the way it is today, you would not be optimistic toward these things coming about. However do not despair for one thing is for certain, we the Church have yet to see the power of the Holy Spirit and what it can achieve.

We belong to Christ Jesus, what He has we have. Soon, and very soon, He will reveal Himself in a might way. Soon you will hear hundreds of thousands of voiceless singing out to Him in a new way.

CAN IT BE POSSIBLE ? YOUR THOUGHTS
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#2
The reason for our existence is to love and serve the Lord. This has been true since day one.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,339
2,232
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#4
So you do not agree with Pauls vision for the Church?
Paul's vision of the church is great, yours not so much.

You have omitted all the suffering the church is to experience for the glory of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#5
Paul's vision of the church is great, yours not so much.

You have omitted all the suffering the church is to experience for the glory of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Because I did not mention it does not mean I omitted it. What I posted was from scripture. What part of the scripture do you disagree with?
Also if you could expand your thoughts about church suffering it would be helpful. For example, I believe this suffering I go through in my life is to bring me to a greater faith in Christ. The more I overcome this suffering the greater my faith. This is not only my belief but my experience as well. This I believe is not only true in my case but in the case of all who call themselves the Body of Christ.

In the Body of Christ no man is an island. We are only as strong as our weakness member. Those last shall be first.

Also Paul the person who wrote this epistle knew suffering we will never experience. So yes we are suffering and will suffer is that all there is?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,913
9,917
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Florida
#6
So you do not agree with Pauls vision for the Church?
As with all prayer, it is up to God whether to answer it or not, and at His pleasure based on the timing. I agree with the prayer but see no evidence that the prayer has been answered on a church-wide basis. As with anything else, any positive spiritual change in the church must start with the individual. Actually, at this point, I place most of my focus on my family. His vision for the church sounds very much like a pipe dream.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#7
Paul's vision of the church is great, yours not so much.

You have omitted all the suffering the church is to experience for the glory of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Dear Roger: If suffering is what you want to see let me take you to any church in this country and I will show you more suffering than you can endure. Saints of God dying from cancer, divorce , finical ruin, husband and wife fighting to their children from drugs, pastors who have lost their passion for God and slip into apathy, I could go on and on there is plenty more
There is a constant cry from suffering saints going out to God can you not hear it? In my own life I have prayed that God would take my own life in order to save another.

I would like to hear your idea of suffering. Perhaps you have never had to endure an episode in your life that brought such suffering.

Suffering , what about all the souls setting in church pews believing they are saved just because someone told to pray the " sinners prayer " . no conviction just doing what someone told them to do.
I have personally wittiest the Holy Spirt bringing hundreds to tears of repents and release them from suffering.
What about those in church every day who take their own lives because they cannot endure the suffering any longer?
What about the love ones of these souls leave behind who must now endure the suffering because of the loss?

SUFFERING.....It seems to me you cannot see the forest for the trees.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,496
4,788
113
#8
Dear Roger: If suffering is what you want to see let me take you to any church in this country and I will show you more suffering than you can endure. Saints of God dying from cancer, divorce , finical ruin, husband and wife fighting to their children from drugs, pastors who have lost their passion for God and slip into apathy, I could go on and on there is plenty more
There is a constant cry from suffering saints going out to God can you not hear it? In my own life I have prayed that God would take my own life in order to save another.

I would like to hear your idea of suffering. Perhaps you have never had to endure an episode in your life that brought such suffering.

Suffering , what about all the souls setting in church pews believing they are saved just because someone told to pray the " sinners prayer " . no conviction just doing what someone told them to do.
I have personally wittiest the Holy Spirt bringing hundreds to tears of repents and release them from suffering.
What about those in church every day who take their own lives because they cannot endure the suffering any longer?
What about the love ones of these souls leave behind who must now endure the suffering because of the loss?

SUFFERING.....It seems to me you cannot see the forest for the trees.
I don't think Jesus was talking about the suffering in the Church that is the result of living in a fallen world, in corruptible bodies.

He is talking about suffering for being His Child, delivering His Gospel.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#9
I don't think Jesus was talking about the suffering in the Church that is the result of living in a fallen world, in corruptible bodies.

He is talking about suffering for being His Child, delivering His Gospel.
Paul's vision of the church is great, yours not so much.

You have omitted all the suffering the church is to experience for the glory of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Dear Roger: Suffering of the saints brings no glory to God.
 
Sep 6, 2014
5,818
3,337
113
biblehub.com
#10
Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#11
Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
You suffer with him in dying to yourself. Putting to death the deeds of the flesh in order that you might take on his nature.
Lets be clear, The only physical suffering Christ went through was on the last day of his life.

Also Christ was only present in spirit when this Scripture was written.Considering this what kind of suffering is he going through.
Some where down the line we have lost sight (assuming we ever had sight) that are purpose is to die to our self that we might live for him. I have known countless numbers of saints who preached the gospel in my life who have died but not one of them could ever stand up and tell me they suffered for doing so.
 
Sep 6, 2014
5,818
3,337
113
biblehub.com
#12
1 Peter 2:19-21
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1 Peter 4:13-16
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,982
476
83
#13
Paul prayed: That Christ would dwell in our hearts rooted and grounded in love, and that we would be strong, and that we could apprehend with all the saints (past, present, and future ) what is the breadth and the length , and the height , and the depth , and that we should know the love the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, and that we MAY BE FILLED UNTO UNTO ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

Then Paul went on to explain how this is going to happen, saying , Christ gave to the Church, profits , pastors , teachers , apostles , for the perfecting of the saints for the building up of the Body of Christ till we all attain unto the unity of faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, and that we will become a full grown man, and this full grown man will contain the fullness of Christ Himself.

This prayer Paul is praying, is it just a pipe dream, or is he showing a vision of things to come? What if, he is seeing a vision of a life after this life? If it were a life after this life, why would he have prayed for us to put away the man that is growing old with lust and deceit ?

Paul is saying, we as the Church have discovered the reason for our existence .

We no longer are powerless before satin. Jesus took the power of satin away. Now because we are the Body of Christ we posses that which Christ possess. That which remains for us is what we were created for all along.

These bodies we are assigned to will no longer have domino over us. We have possessed them as tho it were a class room. We will always be freewill creatures. How would we ever learn how dreadful this free will could be if we were not taught? What better way to be taught than to expose us to the ultimate temptation.........living in the flesh.

Will the Body of Christ ( the Church ) ever come to except who they are and why? After all churches today cannot even agree on what is moral.
It seems like as the Church we are going backward. But remember this, all these were prophesied from the beginning. Even now there are individuals,like grains of salt sprinkled through out humanity. If it were not true God would have spat us out long ago. We are the salt of the earth.

The purpose of the Church is to sum up all things in Christ Jesus. That is what we are destined for from before the foundation of the earth was laid.

We who are are chosen should no longer submit ourselves to the deeds of the flesh, but our purpose is to bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, self-control against which there is no law

If you look at the Church, the way it is today, you would not be optimistic toward these things coming about. However do not despair for one thing is for certain, we the Church have yet to see the power of the Holy Spirit and what it can achieve.

We belong to Christ Jesus, what He has we have. Soon, and very soon, He will reveal Himself in a might way. Soon you will hear hundreds of thousands of voiceless singing out to Him in a new way.

CAN IT BE POSSIBLE ? YOUR THOUGHTS
John the Baptist came preaching to repent for the Kingdom of heaven (the church, Jesus's kingdom) is at hand. Timothy preached that there be some standing here in this generation that would not taste of death until they saw Christ come in his Kingdom. Christ's kingdom, the church, was established on the day of Pentecost and Christ has been reigning in the church ever sense that time as king and husband.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
31,370
9,497
113
#14
Paul prayed: That Christ would dwell in our hearts rooted and grounded in love, and that we would be strong, and that we could apprehend with all the saints (past, present, and future ) what is the breadth and the length , and the height , and the depth , and that we should know the love the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, and that we MAY BE FILLED UNTO UNTO ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD


Ephesians 3:16-18 :)