Pelagianism, semi-Pelagianism and Arminianism

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NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
184
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#1
The terms “Pelagianism,” “Semi-Pelagianism,” and “Arminianism” have in common that they all present a form of synergistic theology; that is, the beginning of man's salvation, in regeneration, is not accomplished by the sole and unilateral act of God, but is produced by God and man “working together,” in some sense.

Each of these synergistic systems is in opposition to “Calvinism” or “Augustinianism,” which teaches that God sovereignly gives to each of his elect a new, living heart which cannot do otherwise than believe in Christ, and so be justified and eternally saved.

Pelagianism, the first and most radical of these synergistic theologies, was expounded by a fourth-century British monk named Pelagius. Pelagius taught that man's nature was not affected by Adam's fall, but that all men are still free to choose good or evil, to obey God or disobey him. Men are not guilty by nature, but only become guilty when they choose to do that which is evil; and Adam's failure did not corrupt his offspring, it just gave them a bad example, which they could choose to follow or not to follow.

Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo, was Pelagius' great adversary, and he taught that man is bound in sin according to the scriptures, and that God's commands do not imply man's moral ability to obey them.

Pelagianism was officially condemned by the Church in AD 431, at the Council of Ephesus.

“Semi-Pelagianism” is a Reformation-era term that came to designate a softer sort of Pelagianism that arose after the Council of Ephesus, in the sixth century. According to Semi-Pelagianism, man is not free to choose good or evil, but he is at least free to make the first move to God, to turn to him in faith, and so be given the power to choose good by God's grace. Man is not free to do good in his fallen nature, but he is at least able to believe and come to God in his own native strength.

This softer variety of Pelagianism was officially condemned by the Church in 529, at the Council of Orange; however, the Reformers rightly recognized that the Roman church of the sixteenth century had become thoroughly Semi-Pelagian again.

“Arminianism” refers to the teachings of Jacobus Arminius, and the five points of the Remonstrance which he headed. According to Arminius, man is not so depraved that he cannot naturally seek God; God's election of men is based on his foreseeing the faith they would come to in time; the atonement of Christ was intended for every person on earth, but whether it will actually be applied to anyone in particular rests upon his free decision to believe or not to believe; God's grace is sufficient to enable men to believe if they so choose, but does not necessitate faith; and after a man has come to a genuine saving faith in Christ, he is still free to turn aside and fall away from grace, and so be eternally lost.

The Synod of Dort, in 1618-1619, officially condemned Arminianism, and upheld the so-called five points of Calvinism; however, there are many Protestant churches and denominations today that hold to an Arminian theology.

Arminianism differs from Semi-Pelagianism in the former's teaching on prevenient grace: against Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism usually teaches that man does not have the natural ability to believe; however, God extends his prevenient grace to all men without exception, giving them all the moral ability to choose to believe or not to believe. Whether or not any man is actually saved depends entirely on whether a person chooses to improve upon this prevenient grace, and believe in God.

Source link
Pelagius
Arminius

I thought it might be helpful to give those who subscribe to the “free will doctrine” some information on the teachings of their church fathers.

Just a quick look at history reveals they were condemned by the early church and labeled heretics for their false teachings.

Free willers’ on this site would be wise to realize they’re simply resurrecting a false gospel that was rightly labeled heresy 1,600 years ago.

I understand it is not the intention of most free willers to decimate God’s sovereignty and replace it with man’s, to abolish Christ’s work on the cross and to deny the fall of man, nevertheless this is what most of you unwittingly teach.

I urge you to reconsider your position, here’s something that may help. When you read the complete bible do you get the feeling creation is all about man or do you understand it is about God, that all of creation is about the Father honoring the Son with the gift of redeemed man through the work of the Spirit? Christ is the center, not man. Hope this helps.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,612
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#2
I understand it is not the intention of most free willers to decimate God’s sovereignty...
Salvation is NOT about sovereignty but about grace. So that is your first glaring error (as it is for all Calvinists).
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men...(Titus 2:11)
So you should ponder on this until it really sinks in. The Holy Spirit did not say "For the sovereignty of God that bringeth salvation" since that was never God's intention. So that is a man-made doctrine.
...to abolish Christ’s work on the cross
It is Calvinism which has abolished Christ's work on the cross by denying, refuting, and resisting God, who has said that Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world (John 1:29). Even John Calvin had to acknowledge that that is exactly what God said through John the Baptist.

Calvinists should go to Bible Hub and study John Calvin's commentary on John 1:29. But of course, since you are unteachable, even Calvin won't be able to open your eyes to the truth.

As to all this talk about Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism, etc. it is simply HOT AIR.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,758
457
83
#3
Salvation is NOT about sovereignty but about grace. So that is your first glaring error (as it is for all Calvinists).
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men...(Titus 2:11)
So you should ponder on this until it really sinks in. The Holy Spirit did not say "For the sovereignty of God that bringeth salvation" since that was never God's intention. So that is a man-made doctrine.

It is Calvinism which has abolished Christ's work on the cross by denying, refuting, and resisting God, who has said that Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world (John 1:29). Even John Calvin had to acknowledge that that is exactly what God said through John the Baptist.

Calvinists should go to Bible Hub and study John Calvin's commentary on John 1:29. But of course, since you are unteachable, even Calvin won't be able to open your eyes to the truth.

As to all this talk about Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism, etc. it is simply HOT AIR.

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Romans 5:9 (KJV 1900)

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)

According to Arminianism, all are the church and are justified by Christ's blood if Christ died for all.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,612
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#4
According to Arminianism, all are the church and are justified by Christ's blood if Christ died for all.
You continue to MISREPRESENT the non-Calvinist Gospel (which is not necessarily Arminianism).

But you totally ignored what I posted, and you did NOT ponder and meditate on the Scripture I posted. So what does that teil us? That Calvinists are WILFULLY BLIND to the truth.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,758
457
83
#5
You continue to MISREPRESENT the non-Calvinist Gospel (which is not necessarily Arminianism).

But you totally ignored what I posted, and you did NOT ponder and meditate on the Scripture I posted. So what does that teil us? That Calvinists are WILFULLY BLIND to the truth.
It tells me you believe in Free Will. Just as Catholics and Arminians.
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
184
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#6
How do those who subscribe to the doctrine of free will answer the heretical label given twice by the church, I mean other than calling it hot air?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,612
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#7
It tells me you believe in Free Will. Just as Catholics and Arminians.
Just forget about the Catholics and the Arminians. Even the Lord Jesus Christ believes in free will. And so does God the Father as well as the Holy Spirit.

Now ponder and meditate on this Scripture to see this: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

He that believeth = a decision to believe
he that believeth not = a decision to not believe


This is confirmed in other verses such as:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

All these verse are telling us that sinners must make a conscious decision to repent and believe or not do so. So if you are claiming that you did not make a decision to obey the Gospel, you are simply deceiving yourself.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,758
457
83
#8
Just forget about the Catholics and the Arminians. Even the Lord Jesus Christ believes in free will. And so does God the Father as well as the Holy Spirit.

Now ponder and meditate on this Scripture to see this: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

He that believeth = a decision to believe
he that believeth not = a decision to not believe


This is confirmed in other verses such as:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

All these verse are telling us that sinners must make a conscious decision to repent and believe or not do so. So if you are claiming that you did not make a decision to obey the Gospel, you are simply deceiving yourself.
Here's the catch. You are reading Free Will into these passages. Whoever believes is a trait of the saved. How to recognize them. Whoever "chooses to believe" adds words to scripture and forces a false meaning on them.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,758
457
83
#9
How free will produces an idol to worship in place of God. First, it turns the gospel into Law. In other words a false gospel. And then turns grace into works. It makes salvation a work of the self-righteous who "choose to save themselves". And robs God of his glory in salvation, giving it to themselves.

It also depicts God as a bully, who forces people against their will to "say uncle" (choose to do this or that) or else be tortured forever. And it also depicts God as offering payment in eternal pleasures for those who sell themselves by submitting to his desires.

This is is not the merciful God of the bible who paid for sins on the cross so he could save those who could not save themselves.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,354
1,266
113
#10
Salvation is NOT about sovereignty but about grace. So that is your first glaring error (as it is for all Calvinists).
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men...(Titus 2:11)
So you should ponder on this until it really sinks in. The Holy Spirit did not say "For the sovereignty of God that bringeth salvation" since that was never God's intention. So that is a man-made doctrine.

It is Calvinism which has abolished Christ's work on the cross by denying, refuting, and resisting God, who has said that Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world (John 1:29). Even John Calvin had to acknowledge that that is exactly what God said through John the Baptist.

Calvinists should go to Bible Hub and study John Calvin's commentary on John 1:29. But of course, since you are unteachable, even Calvin won't be able to open your eyes to the truth.

As to all this talk about Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism, etc. it is simply HOT AIR.
Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world. Slain from before the foundation of the world.
It was outwardly demonstrated using the temporal to give us the unseen gospel understanding. . . thousands of years later. . . with corrupted flesh that Jesus says profits for nothing .The work of the unseen Spirit of holiness is that which did profit.

The demonstration the temporal to revel the eternal represented the finished work from the foundation when he was working. He rested on the 7th. That same rest as sabbath we have when we do not harden our hearts but rather mixing faith in what we do see or hear . No mixing no rest. .No rest no gospel rather know the rest of the gospel .His yoke is easy .His power strengthens our weakness.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,354
1,266
113
#11
How free will produces an idol to worship in place of God. First, it turns the gospel into Law. In other words a false gospel. And then turns grace into works. It makes salvation a work of the self-righteous who "choose to save themselves". And robs God of his glory in salvation, giving it to themselves.

It also depicts God as a bully, who forces people against their will to "say uncle" (choose to do this or that) or else be tortured forever. And it also depicts God as offering payment in eternal pleasures for those who sell themselves by submitting to his desires.

This is is not the merciful God of the bible who paid for sins on the cross so he could save those who could not save themselves.
Be carefully the gospel is the law of God by which mankind can believe, as a anchor of living hope of the new born again soul. Not a philosophical theory.a law of faith. Believing God

Grace is a product of Christ's work of faith or three day labor of His Love.

Men can rob God of His glory by accrediting the work of God in them to their own self . The bible says believers should not murmur as men who have no faith.

Better things accompany salvation. He promises us In Hebrew 6 He does not forget the good works we offer towards his name as the power needed to perform His good will. Helps us get the log out of our own eye as a humbling work of God that does work in us who do believe.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipians2:12-13
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,695
1,150
113
#12
Just forget about the Catholics and the Arminians. Even the Lord Jesus Christ believes in free will. And so does God the Father as well as the Holy Spirit.

Now ponder and meditate on this Scripture to see this: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

He that believeth = a decision to believe
he that believeth not = a decision to not believe


This is confirmed in other verses such as:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

All these verse are telling us that sinners must make a conscious decision to repent and believe or not do so. So if you are claiming that you did not make a decision to obey the Gospel, you are simply deceiving yourself.
I wouldn't even waste time with this. ;)(sarcasm) All of us elect are predetermined by God to disagree over the will of the individual. It is predetermined, so might as well just let the carousel go round and we all are in the will of God.

In less of course the Calvinist dont see us as elect........ not wise enough to enter the elite crowd.....

Or we can agree to disagree and just focus on bringing the lost to Jesus. Either theology still depends on evangelism.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,354
1,266
113
#13
I wouldn't even waste time with this. ;)(sarcasm) All of us elect are predetermined by God to disagree over the will of the individual. It is predetermined, so might as well just let the carousel go round and we all are in the will of God.

In less of course the Calvinist dont see us as elect........ not wise enough to enter the elite crowd.....

Or we can agree to disagree and just focus on bringing the lost to Jesus. Either theology still depends on evangelism.

Why the Calvinist? I think we can all agree it is God as Emanuel working in us, with us to both will and perform his good pleasure.

Why in the next verse does he command us not to "murmur"? Who would murmur that knowing they are yoked with him .
.I will take all the help needed.

Whose enables the other to perform the will seeing no man can serve two masters?Does the clay move the Potters hands?

For it is
God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipian2:13-14

Do the murmurers represent this dead guy named Calvin?
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
184
110
43
#14
...here’s something that may help. When you read the complete bible do you get the feeling creation is all about man or do you understand it is about God, that all of creation is about the Father honoring the Son with the gift of redeemed man through the work of the Spirit? Christ is the center, not man. Hope this helps.
If you have another look at scripture through the lens of the above stated truth you’ll start to see how it makes sense that God predestined some for wrath and elects some to believe. If you take yourself out of the center of attention you’ll start to see it’s about Christ and the Father’s desire to honor him by forming a people in his image. If you believe, you have been chosen to believe by the Father, to mirror the Sons perfection for eternity. This is the way the Father has chosen to honor the Son.

I don’t know how else to explain this to you folks. Realizing you are a believer because God chose you and caused you to believe in this plan to honor his Son is not a bad thing. Lol.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,612
4,080
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#15
Realizing you are a believer because God chose you and caused you to believe in this plan to honor his Son is not a bad thing.
Except that it also means that God chose others for Hell. A VERY BAD THING.

Moreover, a lie is a lie, no matter how often it is repeated. If you wish to honor the Son, then you must believe that He died for the sins of the whole world.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,612
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#16
Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo, was Pelagius' great adversary, and he taught that man is bound in sin according to the scriptures, and that God's commands do not imply man's moral ability to obey them.
That is not so. Quite the opposite.

Augustine wrote about his understanding of free will in his Retractions, Book II, chapter 66 (AD 426-427). In this he mentioned that he wrote a book on Grace and Free Will for the monks at Adrumetum.

He essentially presented the truth that man has free will, and that it is exercised even after the Fall, and involved in conversion. Here are the relevant sub-headings of his discussion:

Chapter 2 [II.]— He Proves the Existence of Free Will in Man from the Precepts Addressed to Him by God.

Chapter 4.— The Divine Commands Which are Most Suited to the Will Itself Illustrate Its Freedom.

Chapter 7.— Grace is Necessary Along with Free Will to Lead a Good Life.

Chapter 10 [V.]— Free Will and God's Grace are Simultaneously Commended.

Chapter 31 [XV.]— Free Will Has Its Function in the Heart's Conversion; But Grace Too Has Its.

Chapter 43.— God Operates on Men's Hearts to Incline Their Wills Whithersoever He Pleases. [Note: This is through the preaching of the Gospel]

The whole point of preaching the Gospel is to generate faith in non-believers. This does not happen apart from the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit. And that is why after Peter preached to the Jews on the day of Pentecost the Bible says that they were "pricked in their hearts". But since they were commanded to repent, it is clear that a conscious decision to repent was required.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,758
457
83
#17
Be carefully the gospel is the law of God by which mankind can believe, as a anchor of living hope of the new born again soul. Not a philosophical theory.a law of faith. Believing God

Grace is a product of Christ's work of faith or three day labor of His Love.

Men can rob God of His glory by accrediting the work of God in them to their own self . The bible says believers should not murmur as men who have no faith.

Better things accompany salvation. He promises us In Hebrew 6 He does not forget the good works we offer towards his name as the power needed to perform His good will. Helps us get the log out of our own eye as a humbling work of God that does work in us who do believe.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipians2:12-13
False Gospels only mislead the elect. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)

The true gospel says what it says but most add free will to it.
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
184
110
43
#18
That is not so. Quite the opposite.

Augustine wrote about his understanding of free will in his Retractions, Book II, chapter 66 (AD 426-427). In this he mentioned that he wrote a book on Grace and Free Will for the monks at Adrumetum.

He essentially presented the truth that man has free will, and that it is exercised even after the Fall, and involved in conversion. Here are the relevant sub-headings of his discussion:

Chapter 2 [II.]— He Proves the Existence of Free Will in Man from the Precepts Addressed to Him by God.

Chapter 4.— The Divine Commands Which are Most Suited to the Will Itself Illustrate Its Freedom.

Chapter 7.— Grace is Necessary Along with Free Will to Lead a Good Life.

Chapter 10 [V.]— Free Will and God's Grace are Simultaneously Commended.

Chapter 31 [XV.]— Free Will Has Its Function in the Heart's Conversion; But Grace Too Has Its.

Chapter 43.— God Operates on Men's Hearts to Incline Their Wills Whithersoever He Pleases. [Note: This is through the preaching of the Gospel]
Mind siting your source? Not that it matters, this material does not support man’s will to generate a saving faith, it merely states that man has a free will and in the section titled chapter 43 “Augustine” clearly states that God operates on men’s hearts to incline their will however he pleases.

The whole point of preaching the Gospel is to generate faith in non-believers. This does not happen apart from the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit. And that is why after Peter preached to the Jews on the day of Pentecost the Bible says that they were "pricked in their hearts". But since they were commanded to repent, it is clear that a conscious decision to repent was required.
Again, your man centered view of creation causes blindness to the truth. Man has no power to generate faith in another. It is through the proclamation of the gospel combined with the work of the Spirit who gives faith to believe the words of the proclaimer. It’s the work of the Spirit not the words spoken by man that produces faith in the hearer. The man who proclaims the truth is simply a tool used by God that the hearer may know the source of the faith provided by the Spirit. This is not hard to understand if you remove yourself from the center of the universe. This man centered view, this self centered nature is a stumbling block. I implore you, pray this nature be changed.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,016
1,639
113
#19
The terms “Pelagianism,” “Semi-Pelagianism,” and “Arminianism” have in common that they all present a form of synergistic theology; that is, the beginning of man's salvation, in regeneration, is not accomplished by the sole and unilateral act of God, but is produced by God and man “working together,” in some sense.

Each of these synergistic systems is in opposition to “Calvinism” or “Augustinianism,” which teaches that God sovereignly gives to each of his elect a new, living heart which cannot do otherwise than believe in Christ, and so be justified and eternally saved.

Pelagianism, the first and most radical of these synergistic theologies, was expounded by a fourth-century British monk named Pelagius. Pelagius taught that man's nature was not affected by Adam's fall, but that all men are still free to choose good or evil, to obey God or disobey him. Men are not guilty by nature, but only become guilty when they choose to do that which is evil; and Adam's failure did not corrupt his offspring, it just gave them a bad example, which they could choose to follow or not to follow.

Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo, was Pelagius' great adversary, and he taught that man is bound in sin according to the scriptures, and that God's commands do not imply man's moral ability to obey them.

Pelagianism was officially condemned by the Church in AD 431, at the Council of Ephesus.

“Semi-Pelagianism” is a Reformation-era term that came to designate a softer sort of Pelagianism that arose after the Council of Ephesus, in the sixth century. According to Semi-Pelagianism, man is not free to choose good or evil, but he is at least free to make the first move to God, to turn to him in faith, and so be given the power to choose good by God's grace. Man is not free to do good in his fallen nature, but he is at least able to believe and come to God in his own native strength.

This softer variety of Pelagianism was officially condemned by the Church in 529, at the Council of Orange; however, the Reformers rightly recognized that the Roman church of the sixteenth century had become thoroughly Semi-Pelagian again.

“Arminianism” refers to the teachings of Jacobus Arminius, and the five points of the Remonstrance which he headed. According to Arminius, man is not so depraved that he cannot naturally seek God; God's election of men is based on his foreseeing the faith they would come to in time; the atonement of Christ was intended for every person on earth, but whether it will actually be applied to anyone in particular rests upon his free decision to believe or not to believe; God's grace is sufficient to enable men to believe if they so choose, but does not necessitate faith; and after a man has come to a genuine saving faith in Christ, he is still free to turn aside and fall away from grace, and so be eternally lost.

The Synod of Dort, in 1618-1619, officially condemned Arminianism, and upheld the so-called five points of Calvinism; however, there are many Protestant churches and denominations today that hold to an Arminian theology.

Arminianism differs from Semi-Pelagianism in the former's teaching on prevenient grace: against Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism usually teaches that man does not have the natural ability to believe; however, God extends his prevenient grace to all men without exception, giving them all the moral ability to choose to believe or not to believe. Whether or not any man is actually saved depends entirely on whether a person chooses to improve upon this prevenient grace, and believe in God.

Source link
Pelagius
Arminius

I thought it might be helpful to give those who subscribe to the “free will doctrine” some information on the teachings of their church fathers.

Just a quick look at history reveals they were condemned by the early church and labeled heretics for their false teachings.

Free willers’ on this site would be wise to realize they’re simply resurrecting a false gospel that was rightly labeled heresy 1,600 years ago.

I understand it is not the intention of most free willers to decimate God’s sovereignty and replace it with man’s, to abolish Christ’s work on the cross and to deny the fall of man, nevertheless this is what most of you unwittingly teach.

I urge you to reconsider your position, here’s something that may help. When you read the complete bible do you get the feeling creation is all about man or do you understand it is about God, that all of creation is about the Father honoring the Son with the gift of redeemed man through the work of the Spirit? Christ is the center, not man. Hope this helps.
Great synopsis.

There's only one thing I might add, which complicates this a bit....I stopped using the term "Arminian" and switched to "free-willer" mainly because of the grades of free-willers that you mention.

But, there's actually one more gradation and I don't know entirely the differences. Jacobus Arminius actually was more monergistic than the Remonstrants, who came to be known as "Arminians" by us. A Seventh Day Baptist discussed this with me, and I did some research and found that he was correct. So, actually true "Arminians" are more like Reformed people than those known as Arminians today.

And, by the way, there used to be a few guys on here who were actually Pelagians. I don't think they are here now, though.

The biggest issue I see is an outright denial of original sin. Some can see that man received a fallen nature from Adam which eventually leads to sin, but they will totally deny the imputation of Adam's sin to mankind, making him guilty of Adam's sin before he actually sinned himself. I acknowledge both, and I don't think that those who deny either believe in original sin, which is a core doctrine of Christianity.

I really don't think the metanarrative of Scripture makes sense if you don't accept certain soteriological truths. But, I guess some are content to hold to a metanarrative that is not internally consistent. I guess I did until the last five years or so.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,354
1,266
113
#20
False Gospels only mislead the elect. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)

The true gospel says what it says but most add free will to it.
In time past God spoke through the law and the prophets. In the last days the father spoke revealing his will through the Son .

It was the kind of food the disciples did not know of. like Manna the bread of unfamiliarity (what is it?) .God not desiring to be thought of as a man as us gives us parable that we might learn how to walk by faith. The eternal not seen. The Spirit of Christ does teaches us the fathers will today. The Christians free will is the privilege and honor to do the will of our father .It is the power working in us that did free us.Who previously were in bondage to do the will of the spirit of lies the god of this world.

In that way as new creatures sons of God we are called the freewoman the bride of Christ

"Free will" or you could say their "own will" as the power behind the will . It has to do with faith in the end of the matter. We are given the power of His faith coming from to do His will Not of our own selves

.No faith coming from God. No faith can be directed towards and accredited to Him

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

Those who make the will of God that does work in us and offer it towards oneself simply turn things upside down and make it into some sort of self-edifying "dead works" that gives them false confidence.

Hebrew 6 helps us to recognize the order or hierarchy of faith as in first things first. . according to whose work of it .. The division between us and them is dependent on the direction of the faith. If we offer faith towards him as if it came from us we are turning things upside down and do take away his understanding. (dead works) It is why they must crucify Christ over and over offering more "dead works" towards Him

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Dead works are shadows that men offer towards God, "a tool of self edifying". All die not receiving the promise of our new incorruptible bodies. That hope should supply our living hope that rises above human hope as the confidence Christ began in us . He promises to be our living Hope till the end (Philippians 1:6)