Politics

[Groundhog]

Ok, Jesus said that what is Ceasars, let Ceasar have. Also I am reminded of when Jesus was comming back from his 40 days in the dessert. When Satan was tempting him. His last try to persuade Jesus was to offer Jesus all the kingdoms on earth if Jesus would bow down to him. If you find and read Jesus reply. You will see that Jrsus did not refute nor deny that Satan owned those kingdoms to give.

There-for, it is my understanding that Satan holds the power over all governments and is the answer as to the problems they all have. I also will remain not in with any earthly government. I hold with Gods kingdom.

Romans 13 directly contradicts your statement. It indicates that governments act on behalf of God, and that do defy them is to defy God himself, because governments are his servants (not that you said anything about defying governments). But, to make it clear, scripture says that governments do the will of God, not Satan:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

[MahogonySnail]

But, to make it clear, scripture says that governments do the will of God, not Satan:

While the authorities are established by God and under his authority, this does not mean they always do or aren't opposed to the will of God. Which is why we are told to pray for those in authority, yes, even evil ones.

But everything else you said I agree with. We can remember that when Paul wrote these things, they were living under the oppressive , pagan Roman empire conditions. The duty of the Christian is to live and work within, not try to oppose, uproot, or overthrow, the governmental framework of whichever country they live in to the best of their ability so as not to bring disrepute to the name of Christ or Christian. At the same time as praying for the governing authorities that they may be converted to God and bring peace and favorable conditions to the Church living within that country. So basically the Christian is to mind their own business and live a quiet and peaceable life, as it says in Thessalonians somewhere.

 

[Laiahna]

Romans 13 directly contradicts your statement. It indicates that governments act on behalf of God, and that do defy them is to defy God himself, because governments are his servants (not that you said anything about defying governments). But, to make it clear, scripture says that governments do the will of God, not Satan:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

We can agree to disagree. As I read that Romans 13, looks to me that governments are not what is being discussed at all. I believe the ones in power here are those that held apostel positions.

 

[Densetzu]

That may be so, but does not mean that christians are to concern ourselves with politics.

Politics concern everyone because the affect everyone. Don't forget that in the Old Testament God judged the kingdoms of Israel because of their corrupt and wicked rulership.

 

[Arel]

Israel is the only successful theocracy in history.

Christian theocracies - if we look at history - have time and time again proven to be horrid.

 

[imoss]

Politics should never effect Christianity.... We are to go by the very word of God regardless of its political correctness or how we feel it to be irrelivant to todays society. We only feel its irrelevance because we want to be accepting of sin and sinful lifestyles. I didnt vote because of this. I believe Christianity should effect politics but not the other way around. We should be steadfast & unshakable in our Christian walk according to the word of God and prompting of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Groundhog]

We can agree to disagree. As I read that Romans 13, looks to me that governments are not what is being discussed at all. I believe the ones in power here are those that held apostel positions.

The overall message of this passage is to submit to whatever "higher powers" you find yourself under. But to say that it is talking specifically about the Apostles is just dishonest. It's obviously talking about governments. After all, do you pay taxes to the Apostles?

 

[african_queen]

every leader in the world is appointed by God, only he gives authority. so christians should not be bothered about politics but on doing the will of God and trusting him that nomatter what kind of leader is appointed, his always looking out fr u and keeping u safe.

 

[DinoDillinger]

Romans 13 directly contradicts your statement. It indicates that governments act on behalf of God, and that do defy them is to defy God himself, because governments are his servants (not that you said anything about defying governments). But, to make it clear, scripture says that governments do the will of God, not Satan:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

The authorities that were to be of that age persicuted and killed christians by the thousands. The christians, were lead like sheep to the slaughter.

The idea of a christian government is kinda funny considering looking at what happened in the dark ages when men claimed the authority of God.

What would such a government look like? I'm guessing you don't mean the Mosiac law, then the commandments gave in the new testament?

1. someone who calls someone a fool shall be in danger of judgement?
2.Women should cover their heads?
3.No divorce, except for sexual immorality(doesn't mention physical abuse)
4.No public praying? (yep, Jesus said don't be like the hypocrites who pray in the streets for the honor of men)
5.don't be a hypocrite?
6.don't swear on anything?
7.give what you own to the poor?(and you thought the liberals wanted all your money)
8.do not resist an evil man? (if someone wants to take your coat, give him your shoes also)
9.repent and believe the gospel?(its a command not a offer you free will lovers,nevermind that its not even possible without the Holy Spirit)
10.whatever you do, do unto the glory of God.
What is the punishment for these, not to mention the 10 commandments like murder and such, is....

Forgive them 7x70 a day.

I'm sorry for the sarcasism here but I don't believe that forcing goats to walk like sheep is gonna change a person's heart.

What yoke does righteousness share with unrighteousness? Likewise, keep my Savior out of your politics.

 

[mercyswolf]

One does not go with the other....ever.

 

[Groundhog]

"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing." -Mark Twain (from the autobiography)

 

[Bob1953]

I would hate to live in a theocracy.

 

[Mobius]

Romans 13 directly contradicts your statement. It indicates that governments act on behalf of God, and that do defy them is to defy God himself, because governments are his servants (not that you said anything about defying governments). But, to make it clear, scripture says that governments do the will of God, not Satan:

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Which is precisely why it was so convenient for the infant Roman Catholic church to put Paul into the Bible.

But if we look at how this can play out in actual practice, I think we'll see that it's not true.

If a Jew (or Catholic, or trade unionist) refused to turn themselves in to the nazis during WW2 was rebellion against G-d ?

Obviously not. G-d gave us our self-preservation instinct. Was the Underground Railroad an act of defiance against G-d? Again, the answer is a CLEAR no.

 

[loveschild]

I don't care for the word religion. I don't care for polls either but enough about me. I think God should be in charge over everything. We wouldn't be in this crazy mess if that was so.

 

[Arel]

I don't care for the word religion. I don't care for polls either but enough about me. I think God should be in charge over everything. We wouldn't be in this crazy mess if that was so.

Elyon IS in charge over everything. And we're still in this crazy mess. So obviously you're wrong

 

[imoss]

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4: 3 - 4

 

[Arel]

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4: 3 - 4

Is that supposed to show me as wrong?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The poll is to choose whether RELIGION should OR should not influence POLITICS.
I have no answer for this --

This deals with RELIGION and POLITICS --
RELIGION and the CHURCH is different, STATE and POLITICS are sometimes interchangeable.

US and the Philippines both have in their Constitutions the separation of the CHURCH and the STATE.
Not RELIGION and the STATE.

The Church has its own distinct function, as well as the STATE.
They work together and not against each other ---
Problems come when they cross each others "jurisdiction".

So as we are pilgrims in this world,
We (as CITIZENS of the STATE) are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's
and
We (as CITIZENS of the HEAVENS) are to render unto God what is HIS.
Christians are to be law abiding citizens while on Earth as well as keep God's commandment.

Winnar of the thread

 

[Ancilla]

I cannot take the poll. The questions are messed up.

I'm surprised that there's a " and vice versa." I think most Christians would say that religion should influence government but government should ABSOLUTLEY NOT influence religion! I mean that's just common sense. We want the Bible to influence every aspect of our life but we don't want other things warping our view of the Bible.

I could say a ton of things on this topic, but I'll just say this:

1. Christians really need to get over being single issue voters. There are Christians who voted for McCain just because he supports banning abortions even though he doesn't believe in the traditional definition of marriage, and... well, there's lots of other things about his platforms that I think is not what Jesus would do, but that doesn't seem to bother Christians just because of his stance on abortion. Well, Jesus wasn't a one issue kind of guy, just look at the sermon on the mount. It really bothers me when Christians turn a blind eye to all sorts of things just because those other things aren't abortion.

2. When we vote and support political causes we need to look at ALL the issues at hand and think about what Jesus would do.

3. Studying history makes one an advocate for the separation of church and state. It's best best for the church and the state.

 

[loveallserveall]

Single issue, what about single party?

It's kind of shocking how many Christians I've heard in America act like any real Christian votes republican and that's just that. I dunno if it's that way in other countries..

As soon as I heard (in spring 08) that some Christian leaders were ready to throw their political weight to a third party, should the RNC choose a pro-choice candidate, I was really hoping they would do exactly that. If Ron Paul and George Bush can be in the same party, I would say that party doesn't have much cohesiveness left. I would've liked to have seen a split. But it didn't happen.