(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

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Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 31 64.6%
  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 16 33.3%
  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Total voters
    48

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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All naturally born human beings are born with 5 sense knowledge,see,hear,taste,smell and feel.Every naturally born human being knows deep down that there Is a GOD,the creation Itself declares It so then there Is no excuse.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD.
Faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Gal 5). We do not receive the Spirit until we are born again (Eph 2:5). The natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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As the Lord is not a respecter of persons, and we are all guilty of sin; one then has to use common sense to reason why some the Lord predestined, while others He did not.
When looking at all mankind throughout the ages if the Lord without reason said this one I will predestine, and that one I won't; this would make His choice of those He would not predestine unjust. And since the Lord is just and fair, the Lord then had just cause for those whom He would predestine and those whom He would not.
God was just in saving some, when all were doomed to hell ( Ps 53:2-3 ).
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Gal 5). We do not receive the Spirit until we are born again (Eph 2:5). The natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).
Is see,taste,hear,smell and feel a fruit of the Spirit or Is It sense knowledge that every naturally born person has?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Gal 5). We do not receive the Spirit until we are born again (Eph 2:5). The natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).
Is see,taste,hear,smell and feel a fruit of the Spirit or Is It sense knowledge that every naturally born person has?
I mean how does a naturally born can only recognize the outward appearances by sense knowledge but the FAITH that Paul preached comes by hearing or IMO,understaning which IMO,the whole creation declares that there Is a GOD.

That's why I said faith which Is a fruit of the Spirit comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I mean how does a naturally born can only recognize the outward appearances by sense knowledge but the FAITH that Paul preached comes by hearing or IMO,understaning which IMO,the whole creation declares that there Is a GOD.

That's why I said faith which Is a fruit of the Spirit comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD.
Only those who have ears to hear can hear. My sheep hear my voice and I call them by name.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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According to the context of Romans 8:13-14, they who in their lifetimes choose to live for their spirit, and not to live for their flesh, are they whom the Lord foreknew before the world was, and whom He did predestine to become like Christ.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If you want to check out what God saw by his foreknowledge, read Psalms 53:2-3.
 

ForestGreenCook

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I think its plain that God chooses people in the bible.

Anyone who disagrees with that is disqualified as a Christian in my books.

God chose Abraham.
God chose the entire nation of Israel as a special people, and it even says "ABOVE" all other nations. Bu-bu-but fair and equal.
Yeah no.

God chose Israel for reasons we dont know. It just says God loved Israel. He chose to show grace to them, even though they were not in our eyes anything special compared to the edomites or amalakites or any other nations around.
Israel is representative of God's elect. In Gen 32:28, God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel. Most of the time in the new testament when Israel is mentioned it is talking about God's elect.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Only those who have ears to hear can hear. My sheep hear my voice and I call them by name.
you are not acknowledging my post,how can there be back and forth If I continue responding If your post Are you a Calvinist?
How does a person hear spiritually If they loved darkness?Don't men look at the outward appearances?So How would they be able to have ears to understand,how would they be able to call on GOD?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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you are not acknowledging my post,how can there be back and forth If I continue responding If your post Are you a Calvinist?
How does a person hear spiritually If they loved darkness?Don't men look at the outward appearances?So How would they be able to have ears to understand,how would they be able to call on GOD?
1 Cor 2:14 says they are not able to discern the things of the Spirit of God until they have been born again (Eph 2:5).
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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48
If you want to check out what God saw by his foreknowledge, read Psalms 53:2-3.
I am aware that everyone has sinned and therefore comes short of God.
There is, however, a difference between those who hate injustice and to oppress, and those who love injustice an to oppress.
Of these two, I would imagine the sinner who hates injustice and to oppress others, the more likely candidate for the Lords choice to predestine to become conformed to His image.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I am aware that everyone has sinned and therefore comes short of God.
There is, however, a difference between those who hate injustice and to oppress, and those who love injustice an to oppress.
Of these two, I would imagine the sinner who hates injustice and to oppress others, the more likely candidate for the Lords choice to predestine to become conformed to His image.
I fail to see in Psalms 53 where it says some will hate injustice and to oppress others. What scripture did you get that from?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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The OP question was:

Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

The answer is: YES!

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(NOTE: Everyone at some point will receive an invitation from the Holy Spirit. Then it's up to us to accept or deny)

Genesis 24 is a shadow of our invitation: God, Abraham, Isaac, the Servant and Us

Genesis 24:
2 Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

9 And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
(NOTE: Abraham sends his best servant on a sacred oath pledge (strangest oath, vs 2, I've ever read about, but I digress) On a mission to find Isaac a wife. To a land God revealed earlier to him earlier)

The servant meets Rebekah at a well:
15 And it came to pass, before he had done speaking, that, behold, Rebekah came out, who was born to Bethuel, son of Milcah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham's brother, with her pitcher upon her shoulder.

16 And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.

57 And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth.

58 And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go.
(NOTE: Key point here - Rebekah has a choice - and agrees go & marry Isaac)

61 And Rebekah arose, and her damsels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebekah, and went his way.
(NOTE: Abraham represents: God the Father, Isaac the Son of God, the servant represents God's Holy Spirit, Rebekah the bride represents the believer).

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(NOTE: Everyone at some point will receive an invitation from the Holy Spirit. Then it's up to us to accept or deny)

John 16:13 when he, the (Holy) Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(NOTE: Abraham sent his servant to find Isaac's bride. God's Holy Spirit is sent to bring those WHO AGREE/the bride (Rev 21:9 & 22:17) to His Son the bridegroom (Matt 25:6 Jn 3:29)

(NOTE: Just like Rebekah, when the offer/call/invitation comes, we have the choice to accept or deny. My we all choose wisely.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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48
I fail to see in Psalms 53 where it says some will hate injustice and to oppress others. What scripture did you get that from?
This distinction between those who hate injustice and to oppress others vs, those who love injustice and to oppress others appears throughout the whole book, OT and NT.
You then have to use common sense as to who of the two the Lord will have mercy on.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,375
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The OP question was:

Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

The answer is: YES!

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(NOTE: Everyone at some point will receive an invitation from the Holy Spirit. Then it's up to us to accept or deny)

Genesis 24 is a shadow of our invitation: God, Abraham, Isaac, the Servant and Us

Genesis 24:
2 Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

9 And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
(NOTE: Abraham sends his best servant on a sacred oath pledge (strangest oath, vs 2, I've ever read about, but I digress) On a mission to find Isaac a wife. To a land God revealed earlier to him earlier)

The servant meets Rebekah at a well:
15 And it came to pass, before he had done speaking, that, behold, Rebekah came out, who was born to Bethuel, son of Milcah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham's brother, with her pitcher upon her shoulder.

16 And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.

57 And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth.

58 And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go.
(NOTE: Key point here - Rebekah has a choice - and agrees go & marry Isaac)

61 And Rebekah arose, and her damsels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebekah, and went his way.
(NOTE: Abraham represents: God the Father, Isaac the Son of God, the servant represents God's Holy Spirit, Rebekah the bride represents the believer).

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(NOTE: Everyone at some point will receive an invitation from the Holy Spirit. Then it's up to us to accept or deny)

John 16:13 when he, the (Holy) Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(NOTE: Abraham sent his servant to find Isaac's bride. God's Holy Spirit is sent to bring those WHO AGREE/the bride (Rev 21:9 & 22:17) to His Son the bridegroom (Matt 25:6 Jn 3:29)

(NOTE: Just like Rebekah, when the offer/call/invitation comes, we have the choice to accept or deny. My we all choose wisely.
John 6:38 says all that Christ died for will be raised up at the last day and he would not lose any of them. Who are "all that he died for"? All that the Father gave him?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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This distinction between those who hate injustice and to oppress others vs, those who love injustice and to oppress others appears throughout the whole book, OT and NT.
You then have to use common sense as to who of the two the Lord will have mercy on.
This is a bible discussion forum. I believe the scriptures should be our only source of proving the truth and that scripture proves scripture. Can you give me some scripture reference on your comment?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Dec 9, 2011
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You believe In GOD whom you cannot see,believe also In JESUS who at that time they COULD see.Men look at the outward appearance.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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John 6:38 says all that Christ died for will be raised up at the last day and he would not lose any of them. Who are "all that he died for"? All that the Father gave him?
Hello ForestGreenCook,

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I answered your question in my post = Those who accept the invitation = BELIEVERS. Peace FD
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(NOTE: Everyone at some point will receive an invitation from the Holy Spirit. Then it's up to us to accept or deny)
The word “men ” Is In Italics,doesn’t that mean It was an added word?

could It mean If I be lifted up,I will draw all judgement to me?

I digress though,I’m getting off the subject.:giggle:
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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The word “men ” Is In Italics,doesn’t that mean It was an added word?

could It mean If I be lifted up,I will draw all judgement to me?

I digress though,I’m getting off the subject.:giggle:
Hello seed_time_harvest,

We agree the word "man" was added. Lets remove it:

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me
(NOTE: If I die paying sins wage, I will draw/invite ALL to come unto me. Had the Jews received Him as King. He wouldn't have had to die. The Kingdom (still to come) promised to the Fathers, would have begun. I don't know (God knows) how salvation would have worked if the Jews had accepted & crowned him King)

The PROMISE = Holy Spirit will be given

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send ""the promise"" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send ""the promise"" the Father made him)

Acts 1:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for ""the promise"" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for ""the promise"" the Father will give to Christ to send them)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of the Holy Spirit to come)

John 7:
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
(NOTE: He that BELIEVE'S)

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

(NOTE: Jesus foretells of a promise that the Father will give the Son control of (Holy Spirit). After his resurrection/glorification (when Christ has FINISHED his redemptive work). Christ who knows every persons true heart. Will then offer/invite EVERYONE to salvation/reconciliation. But, will only give/place/anoint/indwell the true believer with the Eternal Seal of His Holy Spirit.)