Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,820
113
#21
Are you comparing yourself with the Devil? LOL It is NEVER said that men will be cast ALIVE into the Lake of Fire.

Man and the life principle (the soul) within will be cast in DEAD.
I don't think you actually read it.


Here - let me post it for you again.

Well, the Bible says that anyone who takes the Mark of the Beast will suffer in torment forever:

"If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:9-11)

The Beast and the False Prophet also will be "tormented day and night forever and ever" in the Lake Of Fire. (Revelation 20:10)

A lot of people are going to take the Mark. And the Beast and False Prophet are human beings.

And they will not consumed.


 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
13
18
#22
Getting back to the original topic, does anybody notice a trend here? Carlton Pearson, then Rob Bell, and now Pope Francis. There's apparently some appeal toward watering down the concept of eternal judgment.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,820
113
#23
Getting back to the original topic, does anybody notice a trend here? Carlton Pearson, then Rob Bell, and now Pope Francis. There's apparently some appeal toward watering down the concept of eternal judgment.
The End Times Apostasy in going full throttle - that's for sure.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
122
63
#24
I don't think you actually read it.
Actually I did and dismissed it.


Here - let me post it for you again.

Well, the Bible says that anyone who takes the Mark of the Beast will suffer in torment forever:

It does NOT say that'


"If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:9-11)

see explanation given to Nehemiah

Do you really see the holy angels and the Lamb as watching what you consider it means for ever? They have better things to do. The verse refers to their trial before the Lamb.


also will be "
tormented day and night forever and ever" in the Lake Of Fire. (Revelation 20:10)

A lot of people are going to take the Mark. And the Beast and False Prophet are human beings.
If you think that the Beast and the false prophet are mere beings then you condemn yourself


What amuses me is that you think that God would leave a description of the fate of all lost men until a book full of symbols.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,869
18,438
113
#25
Getting back to the original topic, does anybody notice a trend here? Carlton Pearson, then Rob Bell, and now Pope Francis. There's apparently some appeal toward watering down the concept of eternal judgment.
Of course...Satan's tactic from day one....You shall NOT surly die.......a little twist here and little twist there......alleviate any punishment and live life for today because tomorrow really does not matter......
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,615
417
83
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#26
Here is a humorous look a the pope lol it is funny watch it all the way through.
[video=youtube;WEchg1KhmTY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEchg1KhmTY&feature=share[/video]
what is so laughable and sad is how close to the truth it is .
Blessings
Bill
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
122
63
#27
Getting back to the original topic, does anybody notice a trend here? Carlton Pearson, then Rob Bell, and now Pope Francis. There's apparently some appeal toward watering down the concept of eternal judgment.
Not the concept of eternal judgment. Rather the concept (unknown in Scripture) of eternal CONSCIOUS punishment.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,820
113
#28
It does NOT say that
Hmmm, "tormented with fire" and "no rest day or night".

Yep. It does.

Do you really see the holy angels and the Lamb as watching what you consider it means for ever? They have better things to do.
That is nothing but your personal opinion. Prove from Scripture that they "have better things to do".

If you think that the Beast and the false prophet are mere beings then you condemn yourself
Odd. The Bible indeed teaches they are human beings. The Antichrist being indwelt by Satan of course, but a human nonetheless.

What amuses me is that you think that God would leave a description of the fate of all lost men until a book full of symbols.
There is nothing "symbolic" in the Scripture posted. That's nothing but wishful thinking on your part. And just how many times or places does God have to say something for it to be true?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,820
113
#29
Here is a humorous look a the pope lol it is funny watch it all the way through.
[video=youtube;WEchg1KhmTY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEchg1KhmTY&feature=share[/video]
what is so laughable and sad is how close to the truth it is .
Blessings
Bill
Spot on! :D
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,869
18,438
113
#30
Hmmm, "tormented with fire" and "no rest day or night".

Yep. It does.



That is nothing but your personal opinion. Prove from Scripture that they "have better things to do".



Odd. The Bible indeed teaches they are human beings. The Antichrist being indwelt by Satan of course, but a human nonetheless.



There is nothing "symbolic" in the Scripture posted. That's nothing but wishful thinking on your part. And just how many times or places does God have to say something for it to be true?
At the end of the day the scriptures and the principles laid bare are clear....some like him, just like to argue moot points with no valid stance.....there is absolutely NO consequence and or fear of punishment if one is not conscience and aware of being tormented in flames....nor is there any valid reason to fear God or keep his commandments if one just dies, goes to sleep and knows nothing forever.......it is rather idiotic at the end of the day.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
122
63
#31
Hmmm, "tormented with fire" and "no rest day or night".
Yep. It does.
LOL the good living creatures of rev 4.8 also 'find no rest day or night' = same Greek phrase. Are they in Hell too?


Prove from Scripture that they "have better things to do".
Are you serious??




He indeed teaches they are human beings. The Antichrist being indwelt by Satan of course, but a human nonetheless.
you have a different Bible from me then.

See Rev 17.8, 11
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,936
2,077
113
#32
Well, I see this is supposed to be about hell, but to take a small rabbit trail, about Pope Francis.

So in Canada, for 100s of years, till 1996, in fact, we had residential schools. These schools were run by various church denominations, with the purpose of “civilizing” and educating native children. A noble goal! Except, 2/3rds of them were run by the Catholic Church, and there were horrible abuses, including the usual sordid child abuse, sexual abuse, to say nothing of punishments for speaking their native tongues, and many children who died running away, trying to get back to their parents on the reserves, 100s of miles away.

So, now the Canadian government is trying to right the wrongs, (and, of course, with the Catholic Church involved, there were a LOT of wrongs) which is impossible, but I digress. For years they had these reconciliation and truth (?) meetings and in the end a document was produced with things that needed to be done, to make this whole issue right.

One of the important recommendations was that the Catholic Church apologize for what it did. So, Trudeau went to visit this very liberal, left wing pope, and ask him to apologize. Sounds like a great leftist cause for the pope, right?

Nope! He categorically refused to apologize for those wrongs. End of story! Trudeau has his mouth hanging open in shock, which is pretty easy for him, anytime, and one item on the list the indigenous people of Canada apparently need, will never happen.

Now, I am not saying I agree with this recommendation, necessarily! I just find it ironical that the pope who is all about “truth and reconciliation” will not acknowledge or apologize for literally 100s of years of child abuse!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
14,238
8,290
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#33
Now, when looking at the figurative language of Revelation, remember that God is not limited to our time frame. Many do not understand, so prophecy seems to contradict itself. Like when the saints are talking to God on how long He will wait to avenge them. God could be pulling the voices from the future. God can do anything. Remember when God, talking to Cain, said Abel's blood cried at Him from the ground? "And the Lord said unto Cain, where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And He said, what hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground" (Genesis 4:9,10).

Now it gets interesting, remember what I told you about voices from the future. The white robes could also be in the future. The fifth seal: "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, how long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled" (Revelation 6:9-11).

The phrase that says "shall be tormented... forever" must be something like a memorial (filmed?). Same as the statements of the undying maggot and unquenchable fire forever. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Now come on, a maggot that never dies? It just doesn't make sense.

God is in the process of removing evil from the universe. God is a God of love. If He allowed the evil being to continue anywhere forever, that would be most unkind to them. Would not a God of love let anyone, that couldn't quite cut with Him, be destroyed instead of tortured forever. Some people are going to turn evil despite any influence acted upon them.

All this speculation about the fate of all unbelievers is moot. Even professing Christians that do not have the Holy Spirit, have no chance to serve God. Only the participants of the first resurrection have any chance of ruling with Christ.

There are many morally good people in the world, but unless our Father draws them into His fold: they will never understand God's word and His plan. We don't have to worry about anyone being tormented in flames forever. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Everybody sins and everybody pays. This is physical death. The dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.

God's promise to resurrect "the rest of the dead" in Rev. 20 will be the first and only chance these that were not called in the first life will have. That is when they will have their chance to overcome Satan and his fallen army. This will be Satan's last act. When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.

Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.

Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.
 
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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,869
18,438
113
#34
Well, I see this is supposed to be about hell, but to take a small rabbit trail, about Pope Francis.

So in Canada, for 100s of years, till 1996, in fact, we had residential schools. These schools were run by various church denominations, with the purpose of “civilizing” and educating native children. A noble goal! Except, 2/3rds of them were run by the Catholic Church, and there were horrible abuses, including the usual sordid child abuse, sexual abuse, to say nothing of punishments for speaking their native tongues, and many children who died running away, trying to get back to their parents on the reserves, 100s of miles away.

So, now the Canadian government is trying to right the wrongs, (and, of course, with the Catholic Church involved, there were a LOT of wrongs) which is impossible, but I digress. For years they had these reconciliation and truth (?) meetings and in the end a document was produced with things that needed to be done, to make this whole issue right.

One of the important recommendations was that the Catholic Church apologize for what it did. So, Trudeau went to visit this very liberal, left wing pope, and ask him to apologize. Sounds like a great leftist cause for the pope, right?

Nope! He categorically refused to apologize for those wrongs. End of story! Trudeau has his mouth hanging open in shock, which is pretty easy for him, anytime, and one item on the list the indigenous people of Canada apparently need, will never happen.

Now, I am not saying I agree with this recommendation, necessarily! I just find it ironical that the pope who is all about “truth and reconciliation” will not acknowledge or apologize for literally 100s of years of child abuse!
The dude is as evil as they come......
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
175
0
#35
In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

The interview between Scalfari and the Pope was published March 28, 2018 in La Repubblica. The relevant section on Hell was translated by the highly respected web log, Rorate Caeli.

The interview is headlined, "The Pope: It is an honor to be called revolutionary." (Il Papa: “È un onore essere chiamato rivoluzionario.")

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Full Article: https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-there-no-hell
Catholic popes have always taken upon themselves to set their word above Scripture!

What's New? Good post in any case:)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,230
1,432
113
#36
Now, when looking at the figurative language of Revelation, remember that God is not limited to our time frame. Many do not understand, so prophecy seems to contradict itself. Like when the saints are talking to God on how long He will wait to avenge them. God could be pulling the voices from the future. God can do anything. Remember when God, talking to Cain, said Abel's blood cried at Him from the ground? "And the Lord said unto Cain, where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And He said, what hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground" (Genesis 4:9,10).
Hello Deade,

First of all, Revelation is not all figurative or symbolic. This teaching is in fact the major reason why people misinterpret Revelation. A good rule of thumb when reading Revelation is that, if the plain literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.

And secondly, the souls of the saints that are under the altar in heaven, is referring to the opening of the 5th seal, which means that because the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will all take place in the order that they appear in Revelation, i.e. chronologically, and since we have yet to see the first seal opened, then the fifth seal event is still future, as are all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

The phrase that says "shall be tormented... forever" must be something like a memorial (filmed?). Same as the statements of the undying maggot and unquenchable fire forever. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Now come on, a maggot that never dies? It just doesn't make sense.
The reference to the smoke of their torment rising up forever and ever and not having any cessation or intermission from said torment, means exactly what it says. That those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire, separated from God and in conscious torment.

God is in the process of removing evil from the universe. God is a God of love. If He allowed the evil being to continue anywhere forever, that would be most unkind to them. Would not a God of love let anyone, that couldn't quite cut with Him, be destroyed instead of tortured forever. Some people are going to turn evil despite any influence acted upon them.
God is not only a God of love, but a God righteous judgment. His love, grace and mercy come to an end for every individual who dies without the shed blood of Christ covering them. And because all sin is against our eternal, Holy and righteous God, God's judgment will be without grace or mercy and eternal, with the objects of his wrath existing and conscious.

There are many morally good people in the world, but unless our Father draws them into His fold: they will never understand God's word and His plan. We don't have to worry about anyone being tormented in flames forever. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death.
It is because of not understanding what death is that cause people to misinterpret it. Life and death are both states conscious existence and in relation to ones standing with God. Life is the blessed state of conscious and eternal existence in the kingdom of God. While death is conscious, eternal existence in separation from God in torment in the lake of fire.

God's promise to resurrect "the rest of the dead" in Rev. 20 will be the first and only chance these that were not called in the first life will have. That is when they will have their chance to overcome Satan and his fallen army. This will be Satan's last act. When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.
In Revelation 20 there are two resurrections mentioned. The first one found in Rev.20:4-6 is the resurrection of the great tribulation saints, those who will have become believers during the time of God's wrath and the beasts kingdom. This group, like the church, is apart of the first resurrection. The second group that is resurrected is found in Rev.20:11-15, who are the unrighteous dead throughout all of history who will be resurrected out of Hades only to stand before God at the great white throne judgment, where they will be held accountable for every sin they ever committed. Anyone's name not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire, which is eternal, conscious punishment.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
122
63
#37
At the end of the day the scriptures and the principles laid bare are clear.
If they are clear give me one verse which clearly teaches eternal conscious punishment for men.

...some like him, just like to argue moot points with no valid stance..
moot points or simply against 'traditional' viewpoints?

...there is absolutely NO consequence and or fear of punishment if one is not conscience and aware of being tormented in flames....
there are plenty of consequences and fear of punishment before God without the need for flames which are merely a picture of utter and final destruction

nor is there any valid reason to fear God or keep his commandments
are you serious lol

if one just dies, goes to sleep and knows nothing forever.....
Have I ever said that? Jesus said Some will be punished with MANY stripes and some with FEW. The latter is a strange way of speaking of your idea of Hell.

..it is rather idiotic at the end of the day.
Are you talking about your view?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,869
18,438
113
#38
If they are clear give me one verse which clearly teaches eternal conscious punishment for men.



moot points or simply against 'traditional' viewpoints?



there are plenty of consequences and fear of punishment before God without the need for flames which are merely a picture of utter and final destruction



are you serious lol



Have I ever said that? Jesus said Some will be punished with MANY stripes and some with FEW. The latter is a strange way of speaking of your idea of Hell.



Are you talking about your view?
I should not be surprised you partially quote me when you also nip, cut, paste, rearrange and reject the bible on many fronts to hold your views....funny thing....most people who reject the bible on many fronts do exactly as you do above.....you cherry pick a few statements here or there and then push your bias opinion like fact.....very, very deceptive at the end of the day!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
122
63
#39


Hello Deade,

First of all, Revelation is not all figurative or symbolic. This teaching is in fact the major reason why people misinterpret Revelation. A good rule of thumb when reading Revelation is that, if the plain literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.


but is it correct?

And secondly, the souls of the saints that are under the altar in heaven, is referring to the opening of the 5th seal, which means that because the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will all take place in the order that they appear in Revelation, i.e. chronologically, and since we have yet to see the first seal opened, then the fifth seal event is still future, as are all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
the first seal was opened in John's day so the fifth seal is mainly complete

The reference to the smoke of their torment rising up forever and ever and not having any cessation or intermission from said torment, means exactly what it says.
Yes that the smoke of the fire by which they are examined is eternal. All God's dealings are eternal.

That those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire, separated from God and in conscious torment.
it says they will be thrown in dead. Only Satan, the Beast and the false prophet are thrown in alive. There is no mention of conscious torment for the dead.




It is because of not understanding what death is that cause people to misinterpret it. Life and death are both states conscious existence and in relation to ones standing with God. Life is the blessed state of conscious and eternal existence in the kingdom of God.
So Satan and the Beast and the false prophet who are thrown in ALIVE are in a blessed state of conscious and eternal existence before God?

While death is conscious, eternal existence in separation from God in torment in the lake of fire
.

LOL see above



 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#40
true dat.. I still would rather pay to get myself out of cremation..lol And get to still spend time in heaven. Alot of people are coming to believe inn annihilation lately.

It is part of the great apostasy.