Praying in Tongues

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Kavik

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2017
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You rely on humanistic understanding and attack those here and the very word of God. You use terms not even found in the bible but in a secular humanism book which is more about atheism than Christianity. the Bible does not have the words" gibberish, free-vocalization. That was created to explain the supernatural power of God which you do not believe happens today and use worldly terms and man intellectual ability to disprove the word of God. You have no edifying words nothing comforting all you have is hate.

I would argue that you’re relaying on a complete redefinition and understanding of “tongues” that came about in the early 1900’s after the failure of Parham and his ilk to demonstrate that what they were producing were real, rational languages hitherto unknown by those speaking them (i.e., xenoglossy). One of the results of this redefinition and understanding of “tongues” was the reading into the narratives of concepts and things that are simply not there and never were, in order to “proof” the modern phenomenon.

No, you won’t find “free-vocalization” in the Bible, because that’s not what “tongues” refers to – when the word is used for something spoken, refers to real, rational languages…every single time; nothing more, nothing less.

The supernatural power of God certainly does work today, it can even be argued that it exists in the "tongues experience”, but the ‘tongues’ themselves (i.e. the speech that is produced) is just not supernatural, no matter how much people would like it to be.

There’s no hate at all – just a reiteration of truth with respect to the modern ‘tongues’ phenomenon.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Ok. I paid attention to the scriptures but came across this:

John 14:12Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

I'm simply asking (not mocking), why aren't you doing greater works than Jesus did? if you are, well and good, just say so.

funny

have you improved your understanding of the word 'edification' or do you still think it means self seeking and self aggrandisement ?

you are playing games

listen: you can't call tongues gibberish, with the excuse you only mean the way it appears to you today, and refuse to answer questions yourself and tell others to answer you. even in your economy that hardly seems fair, right?....never mind; rhetorcial question, and since you have such a bad command of the English language, that means no need to respond to that question since we all know the answer :LOL:

you think you have set some kind of trap here, but you are the only one in it

now see that besides saying you don't speak English well, you are also saying you do not communicate well

oh gee so sorry. perhaps join some English classes online and then come back so we understand you better :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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funny

have you improved your understanding of the word 'edification' or do you still think it means self seeking and self aggrandisement ?

you are playing games

listen: you can't call tongues gibberish, with the excuse you only mean the way it appears to you today, and refuse to answer questions yourself and tell others to answer you. even in your economy that hardly seems fair, right?....never mind; rhetorcial question, and since you have such a bad command of the English language, that means no need to respond to that question since we all know the answer :LOL:

you think you have set some kind of trap here, but you are the only one in it

now see that besides saying you don't speak English well, you are also saying you do not communicate well

oh gee so sorry. perhaps join some English classes online and then come back so we understand you better :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I get it, you can't answer John 14 and i feel your pain. If john 14 is trap then i can only imagine the kind of anguish you have to undergo reading this and many other passages like it even when alone. It wasn't meant to be a trap but for sound doctrine and correction.

Gibberish is an understatement, Kavik has explained it better than i. There's nothing godly about this 'modern phenomenon of tongues', i have spoken it and i know what it is about.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,165
2,874
113
I'm not a good communicator plus there's nothing extra i will do apart from asking these same questions that i'm asking now, so i will decline your offer.

Let's look at the works Jesus talked about, shall we:

John 9:
1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
6When Jesus had said this, He spat on the ground, made some mud, and applied it to the man’s eyes. 7Then He told him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came back seeing.


John 10:
31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

John 5:
1Some time later there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool with five covered colonnades, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda. 3On these walkways lay a great number of the sick, the blind, the lame, and the paralyzed.a
5One man there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6When Jesus saw him lying there and realized that he had spent a long time in this condition, He asked him, “Do you want to get well?”
7“Sir,” the invalid replied, “I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am on my way, someone else goes in before me.”
8Then Jesus told him, “Get up, pick up your mat, and walk.”
9Immediately the man was made well, and he picked up his mat and began to walk.
Now this happened on the Sabbath day, 10so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “This is the Sabbath! It is unlawful for you to carry your mat.”.......

16Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews began to persecute Him. 17But Jesus answered them, “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working.”


But you want us to believe that greater works is only limited to seeing people get saved?!!.

You have to do better than this. There's nothing wrong with accepting that you can not do greater works than Jesus, then we will help you understand why it is so. CESSATION.
I don't want you to believe anything you either see the word of God or you don't here is your error you state that we aka Pentecostals/charismatics want you to believe that the greater work is only limited to seeing people saved. That is what you said I did not say Only, you did. error 1. everything Jesus taught the disciples which we see in the Gospels are very powerful and profound. The "B" attitudes, the Olivet Discourse or Olivet prophecy all the Parables were done to do what?
Prepare the disciples for the work Jesus had called them to do. The word greater that you like so much did you even study it in the Orignal Language and look to see what it is contextually with the text? did you even know that Johns gospel has parallel scriptures with the word "greater" in it?
John 5::20 John 5:36 and John 14:12

the word Greater has to be seen in context with "work" what is the "greater" mean? How can man do Greater than God? he man can not period. So the word "greater" contextually with John 5:20 5:36 and John 14:12 is not greater than God but it is do more of something that Jesus had done? Jesus had did it they will do greater or MORE!


Greek =meizōn larger (literally or figuratively, specially, in age):—elder, greater(-est), more.

What did Jesus say HE came to do what was HIS work?

1. so save that which was lost the jews and then the gentiles
2. Bring the Kingdom of God
3. do the work of the Father
4. to reveal GOD

Luke 4:18-19

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


seeing people saved is the Greatest work we can do more than the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the Gospel is where the Power of God is shown and the word of God confirmed. How can you as a Christian lambast salvation? When the very words of our Lord were to go and Preach the gospel to every creature. Cause and effect, that should be something you understand.

Jesus is the one who preached which the results of Him doing so were salvation, healing, deliverance, and miracles.

124 times in scripture the word " Preach" is used; all in the New Testament. Jesus preached not just to be heard. He told the disciples to go and preach the gospel and were they not accepting something to happen? yes, what Salvation! and more of it. More, larger and greater. YES, Salvation is the greater work but not limited to. Salvation is what matters. Paul said I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the POWER OF GOD for salvation. Paul led by the Holy Spirit called the Gospel message of Jesus Christ the POWER OF GOD. is that not greater? feeding the hungry Jesus did it people walked away unsaved.

Jesus healed 10 lepers only one came back to thank him. BUT Salvation !!!!!!! the church grew and people were changed and served God and worshiped HIM
yes, salvation is the greater work you do error in not seeing this;

Jesus leaves the 99 for ONE!
The heaven rejoice for ONE! coming to salvation . The greater work the more to do is seeing people saved. IF you do not see that then you are guilty of the very thing you say all Pentecostals and Charimatics do.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Open challenge to everyone and anyone.

John 14:12 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Q1. Who in this thread can confirm to us that they can do more works than Jesus ever did?
Q2. Those who are doing less than what Jesus did, give one good reason? (Mine is cessation)


I would offer. The greater things are not greater than raising those dead in their trespasses and sin from death to eternal life.(salvation)

The greater I believe was in the number that could be affected by the hearing of Christ's faith as a labor of His love working in them to both will and do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness) . When Peter moved by the Holy Spirit put His words on Peter lips, Peter preached as a fulfilment of Joel and a sign against the faithless Jews. 3000 souls were given new eternal spirit life in the twinkling of the eye, having passed from life to death . The Son of man more like not more than five hundred converts in three years.(the lesser)

The Son of man was limited when he was here. Reducing the work of the Holy Spirit. The Son of man would not take away the glory of the father not seen .When called good master as infallible interpreter he gave Glory to the unseen Holy place of our father in heaven .

The Son of man I would think would dare not stand in that Holy place of the Father. Jesus said one is our master teacher in heaven call no man on earth teacher in that that way. God is not a man as us.

Mine is cessation also. The last book or chapter of the whole book of prophecy, the Bible in respect to Revelation sealed up with seven seals the number of perfect, sealed till the end of time. God has ceased bringing new prophecy after any manner to include tongues, which is prophecy (God's word) spoken of in all the languages of the word, as a sign against those who walked by sight and refuse to hear prophecy even the word of God in their own native tongue .
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,165
2,874
113
I would argue that you’re relaying on a complete redefinition and understanding of “tongues” that came about in the early 1900’s after the failure of Parham and his ilk to demonstrate that what they were producing were real, rational languages hitherto unknown by those speaking them (i.e., xenoglossy). One of the results of this redefinition and understanding of “tongues” was the reading into the narratives of concepts and things that are simply not there and never were, in order to “proof” the modern phenomenon.

No, you won’t find “free-vocalization” in the Bible, because that’s not what “tongues” refers to – when the word is used for something spoken, refers to real, rational languages…every single time; nothing more, nothing less.

The supernatural power of God certainly does work today, it can even be argued that it exists in the "tongues experience”, but the ‘tongues’ themselves (i.e. the speech that is produced) is just not supernatural, no matter how much people would like it to be.

There’s no hate at all – just a reiteration of truth with respect to the modern ‘tongues’ phenomenon.
that would be your understanding and the term " modern tongues is not in the Bible. just like "free vocalization". they are unbiblical word and terms to describe the spiritual things in the word of God from a secular humanist understanding. Which too is improper and carnal. This is what Paul was saying to Timothy in 2Tim 3: 1-9. relying on man ability and intelligence. Using atheistic logic to discredit the Word of God. "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. " Pride of what they know better.

2tim 3:5
They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!
:9 But they won’t get away with this for long. Someday everyone will recognize what fools they are, just as with Jannes and Jambres.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,165
2,874
113
I would argue that you’re relaying on a complete redefinition and understanding of “tongues” that came about in the early 1900’s after the failure of Parham and his ilk to demonstrate that what they were producing were real, rational languages hitherto unknown by those speaking them (i.e., xenoglossy). One of the results of this redefinition and understanding of “tongues” was the reading into the narratives of concepts and things that are simply not there and never were, in order to “proof” the modern phenomenon.

No, you won’t find “free-vocalization” in the Bible, because that’s not what “tongues” refers to – when the word is used for something spoken, refers to real, rational languages…every single time; nothing more, nothing less.

The supernatural power of God certainly does work today, it can even be argued that it exists in the "tongues experience”, but the ‘tongues’ themselves (i.e. the speech that is produced) is just not supernatural, no matter how much people would like it to be.

There’s no hate at all – just a reiteration of truth with respect to the modern ‘tongues’ phenomenon.

LOL " – when the word is used for something spoken, refers to real, rational languages…every single time; nothing more, nothing less. "

Every time huh?
1sam 1:11

Then she made a vow and said, “O LORD of hosts, if You will indeed look on the affliction of Your maidservant and remember me, and not forget Your maidservant, but will give Your maidservant a male child, then I will give him to the LORD all the days of his life, and :12no razor shall come upon his head.”
And it happened, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli watched her mouth.

:13 Now Hannah spoke in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard. Therefore Eli thought she was drunk.

:14 So Eli said to her, “How long will you be drunk? Put your wine away from you!”
:15 But Hannah answered and said, “No, my lord, I am a woman of sorrowful spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor intoxicating drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.

:16 “Do not consider your maidservant a wicked woman,[fn] for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief I have spoken until now.”

Acts Chapter 2

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”


if both of these languages spoken by the 120 and Hanna were as you say "real, rational languages…" every time why did they Mock and falsely accused?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
I don't want you to believe anything you either see the word of God or you don't here is your error you state that we aka Pentecostals/charismatics want you to believe that the greater work is only limited to seeing people saved. That is what you said I did not say Only, you did. error 1. everything Jesus taught the disciples which we see in the Gospels are very powerful and profound. The "B" attitudes, the Olivet Discourse or Olivet prophecy all the Parables were done to do what?
Prepare the disciples for the work Jesus had called them to do. The word greater that you like so much did you even study it in the Orignal Language and look to see what it is contextually with the text? did you even know that Johns gospel has parallel scriptures with the word "greater" in it?
John 5::20 John 5:36 and John 14:12

the word Greater has to be seen in context with "work" what is the "greater" mean? How can man do Greater than God? he man can not period. So the word "greater" contextually with John 5:20 5:36 and John 14:12 is not greater than God but it is do more of something that Jesus had done? Jesus had did it they will do greater or MORE!


Greek =meizōn larger (literally or figuratively, specially, in age):—elder, greater(-est), more.

What did Jesus say HE came to do what was HIS work?

1. so save that which was lost the jews and then the gentiles
2. Bring the Kingdom of God
3. do the work of the Father
4. to reveal GOD

Luke 4:18-19

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


seeing people saved is the Greatest work we can do more than the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the Gospel is where the Power of God is shown and the word of God confirmed. How can you as a Christian lambast salvation? When the very words of our Lord were to go and Preach the gospel to every creature. Cause and effect, that should be something you understand.

Jesus is the one who preached which the results of Him doing so were salvation, healing, deliverance, and miracles.

124 times in scripture the word " Preach" is used; all in the New Testament. Jesus preached not just to be heard. He told the disciples to go and preach the gospel and were they not accepting something to happen? yes, what Salvation! and more of it. More, larger and greater. YES, Salvation is the greater work but not limited to. Salvation is what matters. Paul said I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the POWER OF GOD for salvation. Paul led by the Holy Spirit called the Gospel message of Jesus Christ the POWER OF GOD. is that not greater? feeding the hungry Jesus did it people walked away unsaved.

Jesus healed 10 lepers only one came back to thank him. BUT Salvation !!!!!!! the church grew and people were changed and served God and worshiped HIM
yes, salvation is the greater work you do error in not seeing this;

Jesus leaves the 99 for ONE!
The heaven rejoice for ONE! coming to salvation . The greater work the more to do is seeing people saved. IF you do not see that then you are guilty of the very thing you say all Pentecostals and Charimatics do.
1. Of course you are wrong. I have just shown you what Jesus meant by 'works'- it's nothing more than the miracles that confirmed His message (gospel). Case in point:

John 9:
1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

The work here was not the preaching that Jesus did to the disciples but the healing which confirmed His message to the disciples. If preaching was the work He would have just talked to the disciples and let the blind be blind.

2. Are you claiming:
a. to preach a greater gospel than Jesus (God)
b. to save more people than Jesus (God)
c. to see more people getting saved than Jesus (God)

3. If salvation is of the heart, how do you see more people getting saved than God?

1 Cor 2:11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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you are here to mock and I don't think anyone sees you any differently than that. if you were sincere, you would actually pay attention to scripture instead of continuing in your flesh and faulty reasoning.
We do not wrestles against flesh and blood. Neither are we approved by it. From another's perspective it could look like the pot calling the kettle black and using the flesh the things seen things of signs as your reasoning.

Pay attention to the spiritual understanding by following prophecy ? or seeking after hoping for a sign before a person exercises faith hoping to confirm something?

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

They did not believe in a unseen God, period.it is why they refused prophecy as hearing the word of God and believing Him not seen.

Signs. Like the sign. Thanks for visting you just left the Milwaukee city limits . The sign points back to Milwaukee not ahead to Chicago, but back to the prophecy before it was fulfilled arriving at Milwaukee .

The law of prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:21-22) must be applied to any unseen gift . Prophecy is a sign of the faith of Christ that lives in men.as a imputed righteousness .Only God can see into the heart. His living abiding word cannot return void. .

Seeker of signs as a living hope, hope in signs to confirm something?. But it provides the sign of "no faith", as that which would be needed to understand God not seen.... called prophecy of scripture .

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,165
2,874
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1. Of course you are wrong. I have just shown you what Jesus meant by 'works'- it's nothing more than the miracles that confirmed His message (gospel). Case in point:

John 9:
1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

The work here was not the preaching that Jesus did to the disciples but the healing which confirmed His message to the disciples. If preaching was the work He would have just talked to the disciples and let the blind be blind.

2. Are you claiming:
a. to preach a greater gospel than Jesus (God)
b. to save more people than Jesus (God)
c. to see more people getting saved than Jesus (God)

3. If salvation is of the heart, how do you see more people getting saved than God?

1 Cor 2:11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
No did not you need to stop lying. what I said and I will even clearer YOU do not know what " greater " means in context to what Jesus said In John 14:12.
you don't see Jesus is leaving and looking to help the disciples as HE tells them of the Holy Spirit. You don't see the burden Jesus had for the lost and how Salvation is the supreme message I never said to save more people than Jesus Jesus through the Holy Spirit has chosen HIS church to do that work i.e the "Great Commission". did Jesus preach to you? when you got saved? OR did Jesus use someone to bring the message of salvation? None think we are doing more than Jesus what a foolish thought. Weare working unto the Lord laboring with the Holy Spirit in submitting to the call on one's life. You lack understanding yet profess to be wise. you aren't.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I would offer. The greater things are not greater than raising those dead in their trespasses and sin from death to eternal life.(salvation)

The greater I believe was in the number that could be affected by the hearing of Christ's faith as a labor of His love working in them to both will and do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness) . When Peter moved by the Holy Spirit put His words on Peter lips, Peter preached as a fulfilment of Joel and a sign against the faithless Jews. 3000 souls were given new eternal spirit life in the twinkling of the eye, having passed from life to death . The Son of man more like not more than five hundred converts in three years.(the lesser)

The Son of man was limited when he was here. Reducing the work of the Holy Spirit. The Son of man would not take away the glory of the father not seen .When called good master as infallible interpreter he gave Glory to the unseen Holy place of our father in heaven .

The Son of man I would think would dare not stand in that Holy place of the Father. Jesus said one is our master teacher in heaven call no man on earth teacher in that that way. God is not a man as us.

Mine is cessation also. The last book or chapter of the whole book of prophecy, the Bible in respect to Revelation sealed up with seven seals the number of perfect, sealed till the end of time. God has ceased bringing new prophecy after any manner to include tongues, which is prophecy (God's word) spoken of in all the languages of the word, as a sign against those who walked by sight and refuse to hear prophecy even the word of God in their own native tongue .
1. Yet we know what Jesus meant by the word 'work', so we should not resolve to guess what it means. Get the meaning here:

John 9:
1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

The work according to this passage is the miracle that confirms the message.

2. Jesus said several times, "..believe me or at least believe the works.." thereby drawing a distinction of what He said and what He did. So, we can tell that the works mean only what He did and not what He said.

3. No human preaches a greater gospel than God. No human saves than God. No human sees people getting saved because salvation is of the heart and only God sees the heart.

4. The apostles did greater works by doing many miracles. They raised the dead, they healed the sick, they did many many miracles to fulfill the John 14 promise. Non of that happens today confirming cessation.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I get it, you can't answer John 14 and i feel your pain. If john 14 is trap then i can only imagine the kind of anguish you have to undergo reading this and many other passages like it even when alone. It wasn't meant to be a trap but for sound doctrine and correction.

Gibberish is an understatement, Kavik has explained it better than i. There's nothing godly about this 'modern phenomenon of tongues', i have spoken it and i know what it is about.

so you still cannot say what edify means?

I don't feel your pain...because there is none. you avoid answering what will give away your false beliefs and try to blabber your way through the fact you have no clue

you don't have sound doctrine anymore than your bestie in this thread does

should we be surprised you have aligned yourself with a non-believer who refuses to say what he believes but has admitted it is 'spiritual'

yes, gibberish is an understatement when referring to your responses
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,165
2,874
113
I would offer. The greater things are not greater than raising those dead in their trespasses and sin from death to eternal life.(salvation)

The greater I believe was in the number that could be affected by the hearing of Christ's faith as a labor of His love working in them to both will and do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness) . When Peter moved by the Holy Spirit put His words on Peter lips, Peter preached as a fulfilment of Joel and a sign against the faithless Jews. 3000 souls were given new eternal spirit life in the twinkling of the eye, having passed from life to death . The Son of man more like not more than five hundred converts in three years.(the lesser)

The Son of man was limited when he was here. Reducing the work of the Holy Spirit. The Son of man would not take away the glory of the father not seen .When called good master as infallible interpreter he gave Glory to the unseen Holy place of our father in heaven .

The Son of man I would think would dare not stand in that Holy place of the Father. Jesus said one is our master teacher in heaven call no man on earth teacher in that that way. God is not a man as us.

Mine is cessation also. The last book or chapter of the whole book of prophecy, the Bible in respect to Revelation sealed up with seven seals the number of perfect, sealed till the end of time. God has ceased bringing new prophecy after any manner to include tongues, which is prophecy (God's word) spoken of in all the languages of the word, as a sign against those who walked by sight and refuse to hear prophecy even the word of God in their own native tongue .
the greater is that God loved HE gave to save all. salvation is the greatest thing God has done for us. It is sad and troubling professing Christians argue against that while claiming to be saved from hell. arrogant Pharisees.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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No did not you need to stop lying. what I said and I will even clearer YOU do not know what " greater " means in context to what Jesus said In John 14:12.
you don't see Jesus is leaving and looking to help the disciples as HE tells them of the Holy Spirit. You don't see the burden Jesus had for the lost and how Salvation is the supreme message I never said to save more people than Jesus Jesus through the Holy Spirit has chosen HIS church to do that work i.e the "Great Commission". did Jesus preach to you? when you got saved? OR did Jesus use someone to bring the message of salvation? None think we are doing more than Jesus what a foolish thought. Weare working unto the Lord laboring with the Holy Spirit in submitting to the call on one's life. You lack understanding yet profess to be wise. you aren't.
I'm not professing to be wise but i can tell lies from truth.

So what exactly are claiming to do more than Jesus (God)?
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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God has ceased bringing new prophecy after any manner to include tongues, which is prophecy (God's word) spoken of in all the languages of the word, as a sign against those who walked by sight and refuse to hear prophecy even the word of God in their own native tongue .
You keep repeating this blather, but you have so far not provided any explanation as to why it is valid when completely irrelevant, as in Acts 10 when there were no unbelieving Jews present to hear Cornelius speak in tongues.
 

Dino246

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We do not wrestles against flesh and blood. Neither are we approved by it. From another's perspective it could look like the pot calling the kettle black and using the flesh the things seen things of signs as your reasoning.

Pay attention to the spiritual understanding by following prophecy ? or seeking after hoping for a sign before a person exercises faith hoping to confirm something?
Why do you continue to argue against claims that nobody makes?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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I'm not professing to be wise but i can tell lies from truth.

So what exactly are claiming to do more than Jesus (God)?
you surely do not know what the word greater is or means from the verse you used.

Then you try to make up false things I have said. You tell lies. That is what you did. I am not claiming to do anything more than Jesus, that is a false narrative you created out of your foolishness.

ANYTHING WE DO is to and for the glory of God.

Jesus uses us, yet it is still God who is doing it. Kind of hard to understand that with carnal mindset.

IN CONTEXT TO JESUS
Earthly ministry how many people did HE reach for the three and half years? How many did the Apostles reach and win to the Lord after Our Lord ascended to Heaven?
How many have the Church seen come to the Lord from us preaching the gospel from that time until now? We have done the greater with GOD doing it through us YET IT IS STILL GOD. The Apostles reach more than Jesus as the Holy Spirit helped them to do so, God gets the glory not man .
 
Mar 28, 2016
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LOL " – when the word is used for something spoken, refers to real, rational languages…every single time; nothing more, nothing less. "

Every time huh?
1sam 1:11

Then she made a vow and said, “O LORD of hosts, if You will indeed look on the affliction of Your maidservant and remember me, and not forget Your maidservant, but will give Your maidservant a male child, then I will give him to the LORD all the days of his life, and :12no razor shall come upon his head.”
And it happened, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli watched her mouth.

:13 Now Hannah spoke in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard. Therefore Eli thought she was drunk.

:14 So Eli said to her, “How long will you be drunk? Put your wine away from you!”
:15 But Hannah answered and said, “No, my lord, I am a woman of sorrowful spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor intoxicating drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.

:16 “Do not consider your maidservant a wicked woman,[fn] for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief I have spoken until now.”

Acts Chapter 2

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”


if both of these languages spoken by the 120 and Hanna were as you say "real, rational languages…" every time why did they Mock and falsely accused?
Hanna was praying in her heart as God gave her ears to hear .They were communicating clearly with each other. She cared out His desire knowing Christ is of one mind and always does ( Job 23)whatsoever His soul desires . He performed that in her what was appointed to her (will and do) . Just as we are informed in Philippians 2:12 as she ate the meat of doing the will of our father in heaven , His will was done she brought the child (Samuel)

We see her prayer like the inspired prayers of David or Psalms. The Spirit of Christ working in them, with them as Emmanuel..... to both will and perform the good pleasure of God.

Eli as one who fall backward in Judgement . He thought she was drunk just as the unbelieving drunken Jews in Isaiah 28 who mocked god by refusing to believe in a unseen God . We don't see you so why should we believe .Not a work and then we will commit faith to one not seen as a daily work .


The same kind of God hating Jews who witnessed the event at Pentecost thinking because every man heard the other speak in their native tongues they where a bunch of drunks, and yet for all that they still refused to believe in a God a God they could not see with there own eyes . They were prophesied of in Deuteronomy below..

Deuteronomy 32:20And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

To this day those who believe their flesh as the things seen rises above all things written in the law and prophets they remain a very forward group of people .The gospel saves any nation and tongue.

Even revealing the secrets of Hanna heart as she in silent meditation made her request to God not seen.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I'm not a good communicator plus there's nothing extra i will do apart from asking these same questions that i'm asking now, so i will decline your offer.

Let's look at the works Jesus talked about, shall we:

John 9:
1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
6When Jesus had said this, He spat on the ground, made some mud, and applied it to the man’s eyes. 7Then He told him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came back seeing.


John 10:
31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

John 5:
1Some time later there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool with five covered colonnades, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda. 3On these walkways lay a great number of the sick, the blind, the lame, and the paralyzed.a
5One man there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6When Jesus saw him lying there and realized that he had spent a long time in this condition, He asked him, “Do you want to get well?”
7“Sir,” the invalid replied, “I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am on my way, someone else goes in before me.”
8Then Jesus told him, “Get up, pick up your mat, and walk.”
9Immediately the man was made well, and he picked up his mat and began to walk.
Now this happened on the Sabbath day, 10so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “This is the Sabbath! It is unlawful for you to carry your mat.”.......

16Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews began to persecute Him. 17But Jesus answered them, “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working.”


But you want us to believe that greater works is only limited to seeing people get saved?!!.

You have to do better than this. There's nothing wrong with accepting that you can not do greater works than Jesus, then we will help you understand why it is so. CESSATION.
yea, of course, you would decline. maybe because you have been banned before and hide in this setting. well anyway the offer is open to any who is not afraid, :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Hanna was praying in her heart as God gave her ears to hear .They were communicating clearly with each other. She cared out His desire knowing Christ is of one mind and always does ( Job 23)whatsoever His soul desires . He performed that in her what was appointed to her (will and do) . Just as we are informed in Philippians 2:12 as she ate the meat of doing the will of our father in heaven , His will was done she brought the child (Samuel)

We see her prayer like the inspired prayers of David or Psalms. The Spirit of Christ working in them, with them as Emmanuel..... to both will and perform the good pleasure of God.

Eli as one who fall backward in Judgement . He thought she was drunk just as the unbelieving drunken Jews in Isaiah 28 who mocked god by refusing to believe in a unseen God . We don't see you so why should we believe .Not a work and then we will commit faith to one not seen as a daily work .


The same kind of God hating Jews who witnessed the event at Pentecost thinking because every man heard the other speak in their native tongues they where a bunch of drunks, and yet for all that they still refused to believe in a God a God they could not see with there own eyes . They were prophesied of in Deuteronomy below..

Deuteronomy 32:20And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

To this day those who believe their flesh as the things seen rises above all things written in the law and prophets they remain a very forward group of people .The gospel saves any nation and tongue.

Even revealing the secrets of Hanna heart as she in silent meditation made her request to God not seen.
wrong please let Kav answer you do not know what you are talking about. You over spiritualize so much you make charismatics say that. take that allegory Bible and get rid of it. it like talking to half Pentecostal/Calvinist .