Premarital Sex

[Elijah23]

Jesus, I believe, taught us to remain sexually abstinent until we marry, evidenced by two Scriptures I’ll add at the end of this post. However, many of our churches seem to be promoting premarital sex—especially homosexual intercourse. Why?

[20] And he said, "What comes out of a man is what defiles a man.
[21] For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery,
[22] coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man." Mark 7:20-23 RSV

[27] "You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.'
[28] But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:27-28 RSV

 

[Brackenzee]

Well for one thing, homosexual pre-marital intercourse is being promoted largely because homosexuals can't get married in most states.

As for pre-marital sex, that's certainly something that's been traditionally condemned by the church, but Jesus' actual word 'pornea' didn't necessarily mean pre-marital sex. It was usually used to refer to incest and other perversions. That's not to say that 'free love' or whatever you want to call it was permissible, just that oremaritial sex is not as clear cut as some fundamentalists would have you believe.

After all, in the letter of the Torah, the penality for pre-maritial sex was:

16 “If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins.

And since daughters are no longer considered the property of their fathers and being a virgin is no longer something that makes men want to have nothing to do with you, then the core reasons these laws existed are no longer applicable to society.

 

[Kathleen]

Basically, sex outwith marige can be two things, Adultery or Fornication.

Fornication is pre-marital sex

Adultery is cheating on someone while maried to a partner.

Pre martital sex is a sin, period.

As soon as you have sex with someone, in Gods eyes you are married.

As for Homosexual intercourse...

I have already said sex will not married is a sin.
Being Homosexual is also a sin.
So either way its all sin
God Bless
Kathleen

 

[Elijah23]

Well for one thing, homosexual pre-marital intercourse is being promoted largely because homosexuals can't get married in most states.

As for pre-marital sex, that's certainly something that's been traditionally condemned by the church, but Jesus' actual word 'pornea' didn't necessarily mean pre-marital sex. It was usually used to refer to incest and other perversions. That's not to say that 'free love' or whatever you want to call it was permissible, just that oremaritial sex is not as clear cut as some fundamentalists would have you believe.

After all, in the letter of the Torah, the penality for pre-maritial sex was:


And since daughters are no longer considered the property of their fathers and being a virgin is no longer something that makes men want to have nothing to do with you, then the core reasons these laws existed are no longer applicable to society.

I think the Scriptures I quoted state that premarital sex is a sin.

Now, you can try to get around that in a number of ways. For instance, you can re-translate a word so that it closer fits what you want it to mean. This is what you seem to have done.

There are a million ways to get around the teachings of Jesus. However, it is all sin.

 

[Slepsog4]

Hebrews 13:4

"The marriage bed is undefiled,
but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

 

[cornerstone]

Yeah Iowa...

Yes, Jesus raised the standard...so you do what Job did in Job 31:1

 

[Brackenzee]

I think the Scriptures I quoted state that premarital sex is a sin.

The Scripture you quoted only state this if 'pornea' includes premarital sex, but we can only guess at whether this is the case. Remember, words have usages, not fixed meanings. 'Sex prior to marriage' is not what was usually meant when that word was used, so unless you have a time machine and want to go back and ask Jesus personally, it's not a settled matter.

There are a million ways to get around the teachings of Jesus. However, it is all sin.

What is all sin? Sexual immorality is certainly sin! The question is what specific acts Jesus meant when he said Sexual Immorality.

 

[watchmen]

What is all sin? Sexual immorality is certainly sin! The question is what specific acts Jesus meant when he said Sexual Immorality.

All sex outside of Marriage is immoral. WOW, its unbelievable what passes as a Christian these days!!!!

 

[Brackenzee]

...I'm a lesser Christian... because I want to figure out what Jesus was really teaching rather than taking the word of presumptive translators?

I really don't follow.

 

[watchmen]

...I'm a lesser Christian... because I want to figure out what Jesus was really teaching rather than taking the word of presumptive translators?

I really don't follow.

I would say you #1 Have no clue what Jesus was actually teaching, and #2 You not a Christian at all.

 

[Maddog]

...I'm a lesser Christian... because I want to figure out what Jesus was really teaching rather than taking the word of presumptive translators?

I really don't follow.

You have to submit to Pope Watchmen. God tells him he's right.

 

[Brackenzee]

Yeah, you've done nothing to dissuade me, Watchmen, from the impression I got from you before: you do seem to think you're God. Or at least that you and He have minds attune.

 

[Elijah23]

To attempt to answer the question about why some churches seem (to me) to promote premarital sex, especially homosexual intercourse, I think the reason is pride.

If you are a prideful bishop, you might think your place in history lies in forcing churches to accept homosexuality, and you might try to make that happen. If you are a prideful pastor with a bishop who promotes homosexuality, you might promote homosexuality hoping your bishop will promote you. (In my denomination the bishop decides where the pastors will work.) If you are any other prideful church leader in an atmosphere where homosexuality is promoted, you might also see your best opportunity of advancement is in promoting homosexuality. (Maybe you’d like to be appointed to an important high-level committee.) If you are a “liberal” and want to get quickly, and with little effort, to the top of the “liberal” social ladder, you might be tempted to give your blessing to homosexuality, believing that will help you accomplish that.

If you think such behavior is impossible in a church, read this Scripture:

[24] Another parable he put before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field;
[25] but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
[26] So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
[27] And the servants of the householder came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?'
[28] He said to them, `An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, `Then do you want us to go and gather them?'
[29] But he said, `No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'" Matthew 13:24-30 RSV

 

[concernedguy]

Well for one thing, homosexual pre-marital intercourse is being promoted largely because homosexuals can't get married in most states.

As for pre-marital sex, that's certainly something that's been traditionally condemned by the church, but Jesus' actual word 'pornea' didn't necessarily mean pre-marital sex. It was usually used to refer to incest and other perversions. That's not to say that 'free love' or whatever you want to call it was permissible, just that oremaritial sex is not as clear cut as some fundamentalists would have you believe.

After all, in the letter of the Torah, the penality for pre-maritial sex was:


And since daughters are no longer considered the property of their fathers and being a virgin is no longer something that makes men want to have nothing to do with you, then the core reasons these laws existed are no longer applicable to society.

Its clear cut if you read God's Word. Sex is for after marriage - period - no exceptions.

The only thing your post makes clear your lack of knowledge of God's Word.

If it were not, God would allow fornicators and adulterers into heaven which He does not.

In regard to homosexual affairs, they are an abomination to God and are forbidden.

It is these worldly views of putting half truths on God's Word that makes God's Word not true
and imply the lie that God's Word can not be trusted.

 

[watchmen]

Yeah, you've done nothing to dissuade me, Watchmen, from the impression I got from you before: you do seem to think you're God. Or at least that you and He have minds attune.

I seek after God's heart, it is my earnest desire to have my heart line up with His, and my mind line up with His.

By the way....
1st Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.


I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what this means.

 

[concernedguy]

The Scripture you quoted only state this if 'pornea' includes premarital sex, but we can only guess at whether this is the case. Remember, words have usages, not fixed meanings. 'Sex prior to marriage' is not what was usually meant when that word was used, so unless you have a time machine and want to go back and ask Jesus personally, it's not a settled matter.

What is all sin? Sexual immorality is certainly sin! The question is what specific acts Jesus meant when he said Sexual Immorality.

Sexual Immorality is anything you do of any type of sexual act prior to marriage. No sex before
marriage.

Its amazing how many see "Don't do it" as "its ok if you look at this way".

 

[Brackenzee]

Well that's surely true in some cases.

In others I'm sure it's because people see all the hate spewed by places like God Hates Fags and think "Oh God, I don't want anything to do with that!"

 

[Brackenzee]

Sexual Immorality is anything you do of any type of sexual act prior to marriage. No sex before
marriage.

Based on what? What teaching or logic are you basing this on?

 

[watchmen]

Based on what? What teaching or logic are you basing this on?

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

For starters, but of course you will either ignore or explain this away.

 

[Elijah23]

The Scripture you quoted only state this if 'pornea' includes premarital sex, but we can only guess at whether this is the case. Remember, words have usages, not fixed meanings. 'Sex prior to marriage' is not what was usually meant when that word was used, so unless you have a time machine and want to go back and ask Jesus personally, it's not a settled matter.

What is all sin? Sexual immorality is certainly sin! The question is what specific acts Jesus meant when he said Sexual Immorality.

If you honestly don’t know what Jesus is saying, you can choose to err on the side of caution, or do otherewise and accept the consequences. Certainly, giving in to temptation is the easy way. An important part of Christianity is learning to avoid temptation, isn’t it?

Meanwhile, the people that translated my Bible, the Revised Standard Version that my church gave me as a boy, say premarital sex is a sin. Since you aren’t sure, maybe you should take their word for it—and probably the word of any other version that ever has been printed.