Promoting Half-truth

[Nuhen]

no dude you came in the middle of a disscussion, go back and check the other post. The lady said that I was wrong about pentecostal , that she was pentecostal and that pentecostal didn't believe what i said so I showed proof that at least one group of them did.

Yes, but in the process you lumped all Pentecostals in with the UPCI.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Ummm....why are you so mad?

I'm glad you can see my heart and know my feelings. I am far from being mad!!!!

see you can do what ever you want to me. i take no thought that any hate me , for they hated Him before they hated me. But i will get mad when you tear down My God , His Word/truth, or His house, I can still be your friend after all this has settled , can you be mine??

 

[Thaddaeus]

Yes, but in the process you lumped all Pentecostals in with the UPCI.

NO i did not I was showing this lady that some Pentecostal churches to preach what I said they preach, and that wass the first web site I found that stated what I said, I checked two other before I found that one , and I quit looking when I found it

 

[aspen]

Would you please pay attention? We're not saying that you shouldn't dispute doctrines that you believe contradict the scriptures. We're saying don't make things up about them. That's all. If you're reading more into it then that, please stop.

For example, here's how you do it correctly:

Jesus said to call no man father, only call God your father.
Catholics refer to spiritual leaders as fathers and the Pope as the Holy Father. So, I believe that this aspect of Catholic practice is wrongheaded.

This is making crap up:

Catholics worship the Virgin Mary!

Oh Brackenzee - I appreciate your level-headedness! Even when you are beating it against a brick wall....thanks for your posts!

blessings

 

[Thaddaeus]

90% of Pentecostals don't believe that you must speak in tongues to be saved.

I really don't think that you could make a statement like this, and be able to prove that it is factual , hey I am not tearing down pentecostal this all started with me trying to show the orginal person that They shouldn't lump all catholics as truth as well as all pentecostal, I attended an assembly of God Church about two weeks ago, if God didn't have me somewhere else I would probably be part of that assembly of God ( if they would have me that is) while at the servive i attended there, God showed me a vision for that church and it was confirmed by someone else, what God meant by the vision.

 

[Nuhen]

NO i did not I was showing this lady that some Pentecostal churches to preach what I said they preach, and that wass the first web site I found that stated what I said, I checked two other before I found that one , and I quit looking when I found it

Look, I have no patience for these games. Just admit it, it's not like you're going to get shot. I have more respect for honesty than this game of cat and mouse to back out of saying something the minute someone points it out.

you might want to check with some other pentecostals before you come in here and accuse someone of lying

THAT is what you said, then proceeded to talk about someone going into a pentecostal church and having a certain experience, followed by a reference to UPCI as "proof" that that is what Pentecostals believe. Whether you did it intentionally or not, you DID lump all Pentecostals in with the UPCI.

 

[Graybeard]

Will Thaddaeus apologize for a mistake he has made??... rarely happens

 

[Nuhen]

Graybeard, with all due respect, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, hm? Respect is key.

 

[aspen]

Potato potaato. 2. Suppose if they dont worship her they should stop saying the Hail mary eh? 1. I know I know blah blah blah its them asking her to interceed for them... 3. I suppose I could pray to mother teresa too & she could interceed for me too... not. 4. My husband grew up in the Catholic Church an alter boy. His mother taught catocism and still doesnt know the Lord.

What also is a beautiful thing is questioning what you are taught and making a decision when you see so many flaws in your Church that are absolutely contrary to the Bible.

1. All I am saying is that no one should claim that Catholics worship Mary, when the church doesn't teach catholics to worship Mary - I am not sure why this seems to be such a big deal.

2. Why should catholics stop praying the Rosary? Do you know what the Rosary consists of? It is a collection of scripture repeated, while meditating on the birth, life, death of Jesus and the end of the sanctification process within Mary's heart.......not sure how this practice, when understood, can be seen as offensive, but to each their own, I suppose.

3. You can pray to anyone within the Body you want to and ask them for prayer - just like you can ask any person on Earth who is apart of the Body to pray for you. Paul tells us in Romans 8:38 - And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love. Catholics are taught to believe this verse.

4. So now you are holding the Catholic church responsible for your husband's grandmothers poor theology? How many Protestants fall into the same category??? It is best not to judge a church by it's least educated members.

5. I agree - it was a beautiful time in my life when I decided to leave my former church, where I was the youth director and join the Catholic Church after 2 years of studying my own church tradition and the Catholic Catechism.

 

[Graybeard]

Graybeard, with all due respect, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, hm? Respect is key.

you may be right but respect is earned, not given on a whim.....what is wrong with admitting one has made an error??...it is pride that gets in the way....

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I really don't think that you could make a statement like this, and be able to prove that it is factual , hey I am not tearing down pentecostal this all started with me trying to show the orginal person that They shouldn't lump all catholics as truth as well as all pentecostal, I attended an assembly of God Church about two weeks ago, if God didn't have me somewhere else I would probably be part of that assembly of God ( if they would have me that is) while at the servive i attended there, God showed me a vision for that church and it was confirmed by someone else, what God meant by the vision.

I absolutely can make this statement. I gave you a list of the major Pentecostal churches, you are welcome to look them up. The Assemblies of God is the second largest fellowship in the world, second only to the Roman Catholic Church. Here is their fundamental belief on salvation: WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (trusting Christ, through faith and repentance, to be our personal Savior). If you would care to go through the list I gave you, you would find that 90%+ (I was being conservative) do not make glossalia a requirement for salvation.

 

[aspen]

Obviously Keith is not going to drop this issue so I will address it once in detail - then I will expect it to be dropped.

If you disagree with Pentecostals do not misrepresent their doctrine.

- the church does not teach that second baptism is necessary for salvation.
- that all Pentecostals deny the Trinity.
- the church does not promote anti-intellectualism

The whole point of this thread is to encourage people who post on this message board to not misrepresent the doctrines of church they disagree with. Seems pretty straightforward to me, but just in case, in order to be as clear as possible, I provided three examples of common misrepresentations that people may have about catholic, LDS, and Pentecostal churches, in the hope that people would understand what a misrepresentation looks like and choose not to use them.

Now, Keith seems to be taking issue with a small tree in a large forest of understanding. Remember, the point is to encourage everyone to not misrepresent doctrine in their criticisms of doctrines they disagree with, not on effort on my part to criticize the doctrines of the three churches I used as examples. Therefore, it should be obvious that when I asked people NOT to make a global statement that ALL Pentecostal churches teach their members to deny the Trinity, I was not saying that ALL Pentecostal churches teach the doctrine of the Trinity. To claim that I was is to misunderstand the English language at the most basic level.

Now, since Keith claims to be a pastor, and does not appear to be an imbecile, I am left wondering why anyone would employ the mental gymnastic necessary to twist the message of this thread into such a contorted configuration, simply to accuse me of hypocrisy? For the record, I am certainly guilty of hypocrisy Keith (just like the rest of humanity) - I do not need you to misrepresent the message of my thread in order to prove that point - lol, just ask.

blessings

 

[aspen]

Potato potaato. Suppose if they dont worship her they should stop saying the Hail mary eh? I know I know blah blah blah its them asking her to interceed for them...

It may not mean anything to you, but it means a lot to me. How would you like it if I were to say, Bible-smible! Yeah, yeah Christians read the bible for prophesy, or Nostradamus - whatever! I suppose I could go read some tea leaves and come up with something just as good!

Now, not only would I be belittling a sacred part of the Christian faith, I would be showing my ignorance through my act of dismissal, and misrepresentation - Christians read the Bible for a lot more than prophecy.

Please do not criticize practices that you cannot explain properly - it only makes you appear flippant and ignorant.

blessings

 

[oopsies]

so some time back i said something that upset you, and you have hung on to that and now you set out for revenge against me , and you accuse me of not being lined up with scriptures! hhhhmmmmmVERY INTERESTING!!!!!!!!!! I can be your friend after all this has settled down can you be my friend????

Not revenge. If I'm setting out to take revenge, I would do a lot more than just point out something that I'm unhappy about.

I do not accuse you of not being lined up with Scriptures. I accuse you of not being lined up with certain Scriptural truths - that is, you don't practice what you preach and the irony of the matter is, you're a preacher, a pastor.

Be my friend AFTER all this has settled down? lol Don't make me laugh. Reconciliation cannot happen without a) forgiveness and b) someone taking the step to reconcile. Forgiveness I've given. It is something between God and myself. Reconciliation I will extend. You are welcome to be my friend BEFORE it has settled down. Vengeance I surrender to God.

The ball is in your court now.

Will Thaddaeus apologize for a mistake he has made??... rarely happens

Graybeard, with all due respect, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, hm? Respect is key.

I'm finding that this thread topic exposes some very interesting personalities into light that have been hidden in the dark for far too long.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Here's another from the Assembly of God website:WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvationthat empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. Notice that it says Following Salvation.

 

[aspen]

I was watching Sky News this morning and it was showing the pope and some bishops, the bishops where bowing to the pope and kissing his hand...what is the meaning of this??....are we not to bow down to any man??...sure looked as if they were worshiping the pope.

Others have addressed this post nicely, but I just have to include a few more comments.

No one is worshiping the Pope. Reverence for the office of Pope is like reverance for the office of head of state or judge. The fact that you misunderstand what you saw means that you need to learn what is really going on.

My nephew is three, and as we were driving past a field of cattle, he pointed out the window and said 'doggies'! Now, the reason he mislabeled the cows as dogs was not because they were in fact, dogs - not did it make them dogs; instead it was based on the lack of experience my nephew had with cows - in fact, he had never seen a cow before in his life. The great thing about my nephew is that when he was instructed on the correct term for the cattle, rather than arguing that they really were dogs, he incorporated the information into his mind and will probably never make the mistake again.

I hope we can all do this same.

 

[greatkraw]

Is that really true or are you just making it up? lol If it's true, that is hilarious.

no; i could tell you the venue and street i was in when i talked to him

i was staffing a christian coffee shop outreach at the time

it was around 1981/82

 

[oopsies]

no; i could tell you the venue and street i was in when i talked to him

i was staffing a christian coffee shop outreach at the time

it was around 1981/82

I have to say that it's also kinda sad ... for those who thought he was speaking in tongues. Sometimes, we see the things we want to see most - but it is in fact a deceit.

But it's still funny hehe

 

[shad]

The conclusion of this whole matter concerning half-truths is this. Every word and doctrine in the scriptures reveals one person and that is Christ, who created all things, who is before all things and by Him all things consist ... that He might have the preeminence / Col 1:13-22. Any doctrine that is taught from the scriptures must reveal the One who has the preeminence. If it does not reveal Christ, His nature, His attributes, His character, His justice, His love, His light, His life, His redemption and the cross of His death, burial and resurrection ... then it does not come from Him nor does it glorify the Father. This kind of doctrine that does not reveal Christ should be rejected completely, no matter what form it comes packaged in.

If we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, the Spirit of truth that comes from the Father / Jn 14:17, 15:26, and we have the word of God is abiding in us / Jn 15:7 then we will know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error because we are of God and those that are of God heareth us / 1Jn 4:6. That is quite a bold statement of truth isn't it, and nothing half-baked about it either. Those that are not of God do not have the Spirit of truth and can not hear the truth nor the words of truth and do not bear witness of the truth / 1Jn 5:6, Jn 15:27, Jn 18:37, neither are they of the truth / Jm 1:18. Every word and doctrine they teach is not of the truth because it does not reveal Christ / 1Jn 4:2,3, 2Jn 1:7.

So why should we who are born of the truth and have the truth in us through the word, through doctrine and through the Holy Spirit that abides in us, be concerned about the half-truths of those that are not of the truth and who live in a lie? They not only live in a lie without the truth but have no capacity to do the truth and that makes them a worker of iniquity. A worker of iniquity is one that has set themselves against the authority of what God has established as truth through His Son. When iniquity was found in Lucifer there was no truth in him and he was a murderer from the beginning / Jn 8:44.

We that are of the truth should have nothing to do with those that work iniquity and have not the truth. They abide in a lie and they have not the love of God in them. They can not love the brethren therefore they hate the brethren because they do not have the love of the truth / 2Thes 2:10. We know that we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren, but those that do not love the brethren are murderers and we know that a murderer has no eternal life abiding in him / 1Jn 3:15.

God does not only say that they live in a lie without the truth but are murderers without eternal life. That's heavy duty but it puts them in their place in relationship to the truth, who is Christ in us. I do not see God being very concerned with those that have not the truth, who can not hear or speak the truth and live in a lie. Those that ascribe to or compromise in any way to the doctrines of LDS or any other faith that have not the truth are unwise and show a heart that is sympathetic toward lies and a heart that does not love the brethren.

Jn 8:42-47

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Is not that the truth?

 

[carpetmanswife]

you might want to check with some other pentecostals before you come in here and accuse someone of lying, I know a lady that went to a pentecostal youth rally when she was a teenager , and went up front to get saved , they took her and several other young people in a sunday room, gave them a phase to say told them to say it over and over as fast as they could when They would begin to get their tongues tied, someone would walk up to them and tap their head and ok you just got saved. she never did get her tongue tied , but continued to say the phrase cleary, finally they told her to stop, and told her that she didn't get saved. it almost ruined this young lady, just look at some web sights if you don't want to ask anyone.

The UPCI ( united pentecostal church international) embraces the view that speaking in tongues is the immediate, outward, observable, and audible evidence of the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost, and is the fulfillment of Jesus' commandment to be "born of the Spirit" in John 3:5. As defined by the church, speaking in tongues constitutes speaking in a language that one has never learned before,[14] and can be given to all regardless of race, culture, or language. UPCI beliefs on this subject are derived from Acts 2:4, 17, 38-39; 10:46; 19:6; and I Corinthians 12:13.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Pentecostal_Church_International#Beliefs


audible evidence of the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost, in other words, if you don't speak in tongues you didn't get the Holy Ghost if you didn't get the Holy Ghost , you were not borned of the spirit!!!!!! find out for your self. but really you ought to check things out before you fire off about someone lying.. maybe you could have asked your husband, as the Bible says

not all pentecostals believe such , dont put words in my mouth plz..i didt call you a liar but yes what you said is untrue...we all dont believe that way..take it like you want.we dont handle snakes nor teach tongue talkin either...o and shamefully some even wear mini skirts to churchand i know what many churches do teach such...ask my husband lol....stop pickin on women..plz